REND

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About REND

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ITS

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  1. I haven't used him much but I did really like how he worked in the below list. He has a nice toolkit of uses, being able to pretend to be something else is definitely one of the most useful options. Yu Jing ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 DÀOFĚI Lieutenant Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (1.5 | 55) HAC TAO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 67) GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) KǍNRÈN Forward Observer Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 26) GŬILÁNG MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) TIGER SOLDIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) KEISOTSU Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 14) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army When going first he can deploy forwards with his echoes out to threaten multiple fire-lanes at once and force the opponent to consider what is and isn't a threat. He may not have the best selection of guns but holo-2 gives him surprise shot and you can pretend to be a different profile if you want, just to mess with peoples expectations. Really he's there to help push buttons when you go first since he can start that much closer to objectives. Going second is where I found him to be most useful and sneaky. The list has a fair number of camo tokens and a lot of points that aren't visible to the opponent. So the kanren can do a very nice sucker-punch job by deploying as a Hsien HMG behind a corner as if waiting for his turn to come before reading to sally forth and gun down all who oppose him. Since the Kanren has a boarding shotgun and a chain colt he's not at all bad in a short ranged shoot out. However by deploying as a HI the opponent might be tempted to hack him. This is where the Hac tao killer hacker comes in via hidden deployment to spring the trap and hopefully get a free shot at frazzling the enemy hacker's brains. Deployed defensively like this the Kanren's melee potential also comes into it's own. When things get up close and personal, sometimes it's worth engaging models in CC even though you are going to shoot them on the way in. (This is particularly true of especially tough models or those with nasty mobility tricks to dance around in ARO.) Assuming the initial exchanges fails to see either side die you can then bring in the Kanren, put up your holo-echoes before you do so that you get surprise attack benefit. With 1 or more friendly models in CC with the target and MA1 to help lower their CC value further the Kanren will have a burst advantage to help counter his otherwise mediocre CC stats. With a mono CCW he only need the foe to fail 1 save and it's all over. My anecdotal evidence for this ploy was a game against Onyx where a Umbra was jumping around and ate a guilang before charging in to my Daofei (we play regularly so he knew it was my Lt) but ran out of orders before he could kill him. I then had the Hac tao and Kanren creep up to the combat and mug the evil alien. Despite him having superior CC stats the mods gave me a decent statistical advantage with burst 3 and -9 to his CC. (MA1 + surprise attack.) The result was one dead alien.
  2. This is pretty close to a ninja list I used to run. It's difficult and fragile but highly entertaining and amusing under the correct circumstances. Did somebody call a doctor? ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 ONIWABAN Lieutenant Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (1 | 41) ONIWABAN Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 41) RAIDEN (Minelayer, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21) RAIDEN (Minelayer, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) NINJA MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Shock CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 42) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army If you really want the smoke then you can get Shinobu in there by swapping out one of the Oniwaban, dropping the yaozao and downgrading the 3rd killer hacker to just a tactical bow Ninja. I quite like this version though. It has two completely difference styles of play depending on whether you are going first or second. I will warn you that this list is super fragile and incredibly vulnerable to some types of list. It's also pretty order starved most of the time but because nearly everything that matters infiltrates, most things will deploy near to what they are targeting. When going first you are best off being very aggressive and deploying just about everything you can in a marker state so that you have enough orders. The only models I would put in hidden deployment are the regular Oniwaban (who will infiltrate right on the enemy deployment line) and the ninja sniper. The Oniwaban Lt should be the reserve model and you can either deploy them aggressively in a marker state or defensively to give opponents the concern whether it might be another Raiden but with spitfire instead of HRL. The ninja sniper wants to go into hidden deployment because you can cover fire lanes and not let your opponent know this. If you go second then almost everything that can should be in hidden deployment save for the poor doctor and all those camo tokens from the Raiden. The Lt Oniwaban should deploy as a regular camo token mixed among these to make it even difficult for the opponent to know what camo token is likely to be what. If the opponent has a lot impetuous troops then don't be afraid to deploy the Raiden with good avenues of fire and back them up with the ninja sniper who should deploy even further back but with a field of fire that covers them as well. This should stop the opponent from easily getting cheap troops with direct template weapons across the table to your tokens too quickly and easily. As they cross the table you can reveal the hidden dangers that lie in wait for him. The Oniwaban is great in this regard as his boarding shotgun and nanopulser are excellent ARO weapons and whilst I would often advise trying not to reveal in ARO early in the opponents turn it can be very tempting if a link team walked past his position. Tactical bows are also quite decent ARO weapons although I would rarely recommend do so unless the opponent doesn't really have any more orders left or other models that can quickly get to the ninjas position.
  3. If you do face a lot of sneaky, deadly impersonators and/or similar threats that could just walk up and cut your tag in half then bringing a Lu duan can provide somewhat space hungry but effective means of mitigating the threat. It requires a reasonable amount of space and at least 1 wall to deploy against. Deploy the O'yoroi in total cover (out of line of sight from the opponent) against a wall and then surround with Lu duan and holo-echos. To get into CC the opponent will have to get rid of the holo-echo and Lu duan bases. If you bring a rui shi as well then it can be covering the approach too. It can sound over-complicated but it's a fairly sensible general defensive deployment to try and make sure models aren't isolated. The yaoxie remotes are amazingly valuable for JSA and cover up a lot of the shortcomings the rest of the list has. I've run lists similar to the below and there are plenty of tweaks you could make as a starting point I like the following. Japanese Sectorial Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 19 1 1 O-YOROI Lieutenant HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas / EXP CCW. (3 | 83) O-YOROI PILOT Contender / Pistol, CCW. () PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) YURIKO ODA Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 24) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) RAIDEN (Minelayer, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21) KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) GROUP 21 NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army If you go second you can deploy in the defensive formation I described at the start use a command token to put both remotes to B2 for ARO and can also have 2 mines on top to help stymie enemy advances to get close to your troops.
  4. Most of the O'Yoroi tricks are tied up in how useful koalas are. They make it harder to hack (because getting within hacking range means getting within koala range) and regular opponents of JSA often come to expect a ninja killer hacker stood in front of the TAG to ARO the hack attack. Koalas also provide excellent deployment zone defence against a lot of the usual threats. At the very least it usually costs the opponent a couple more orders to get around them. It is one of only 3 TAGs in the game with kinematica and it has PH 17 making it slightly more successful at dodging than failing. This is relevant when the opponent is using smoke and MSV2 (or better) since your chances of succeeding the dodge are usually better than hitting with the HMG. The extra movement on a successful dodge also make you more likely to get out of sight. It's one of the most devastatingly powerful CC attacks in the game. With MA1 it will force 3 DAM 18 saves onto the target per hit. That makes it perfect for destroying scenery and structures as well as other TAGs should you get close enough to get into CC. An O'yoroi will sometimes be better off attempting to charge into combat with a target rather than go with a shoot-out because at CC 21, unless they can impose a mod to your roll (suppressive fire for instance) you can't miss, whilst they will suffer a -3 mod from MA1 which stacks with any other mods such as range. ITS has more scenarios that use destructible scenery which makes this aspect more impactful than it used to be.
  5. Well you've made a decent start. The O'yoroi is a fun TAG to use with some amusing tricks and gimmicks. I don't think I've ever seen someone take a Raiden sniper before, it's always defaulted to the heavy rocket launcher because of cost and minelayer. Nothing wrong with your decision though and it's nice to see someone consider it. I would considering dropping the warcor and yaozao for a minesweeper Pangguling though, it's the cheapest of the baggage bots with no offensive potential but the reason for doing so is so you can reload the koalas. Few things bring such a smile to my face as knowing I can launch more koalas as my opponent. (Also so you can reload Yuriko's panzerfaust.) This change also lets you form a core link team with Yuriko, the Kempetai and Keisotsu if you wish. Further changes could bring this up to a full link which could be good but you can just as easily get away without. It's different from what I would field but still covers most of the things a list should to be fairly well rounded. Best of luck with it.
  6. You're straying into hyperbole here. Particularly since at the start of this thread you talked about how important and valuable it was for 10 order lists to maximise first turn advantage. Locally some of my opponents have been traumatised by HD oniwaban and Shinobu kitsune. When used well these models are almost as bad as impersonators for being in the opponents back field causing mayhem from the start. AD troops can be similar devastating and immediate. Yu jing can do this every effectively and main faction can combine them with Sun Tze who prevents the opponents a reserve model so there is no counter-deploy. (There's also an extra order from strategos level 1.) There are ways to counter this of course but that's getting away from the point. AD/HD can be very advantageous for single combat group lists but they require being active frontline pieces. List design and effectiveness is partially dependent not only on the person using it, the local meta (the other players and general list ethos) but also the tables people play on. I am still always intrigued to look at the photos of tables from large scale events because so many of them have quite different attitudes towards terrain density, scatter scenery and appropriate fire lanes. It's rare that I see a bad table these days but that doesn't mean tables have become uniform in their design. Terrain is still a hugely impactful factor that is easily overlooked when comparing game and list experiences.
  7. There are quite a few N3 changes that are easy to miss and I keep on finding little details that changed. Being able to reload things like koalas, mines and panzerfausts using either a baggage bot or panoply can really turn a game around. Being able to shoot medikits and minesweeper/deactivator changes are similar ones that are worth reading up on in full. I've been playing all kinds of Yu jing since N2 and that includes a lot of different JSA lists. Mostly single combat group lists because that's just how I tend to make lists and they range from heavy infantry focused blunt instruments (a full link of domaru plus haramaki alongside a haris team of karakuri) to devilishly sneaky and hard to use all camo/TO camo lists. Setting up an array of camo tokens and nothing else can really mess with an opponent's plans. JSA are in some ways remarkably flexible for list creativity in spite of their obvious limitations. (No airborne troops, no mechanised deployment and only remotes for visors or characters for smoke make them one of the most restricted sectorial lists in the game.)
  8. With just an aragoto assault hacker I prefer to have less coverage and focus on active turn hacking. He's a mediocre hacker and killer hackers love to prey on those with only assault hacking devices. It's still a good suggestion to swap out the lone keisotsu but I would go with the pangguling minesweeper. It's the same cost, also a repeater but most importantly, it has baggage. Being able to reload Yuriko's panzerfaust or the koalas is just so good. (Anecdote time: Had a wonderful game where the O'yoroi managed to go through 6 koalas who defended my lines spectacularly. The opponent had never encountered that rule until this game, so it was quite a surprise for them.)
  9. Generally speaking no, normally I would include a haramaki or two (typically missile launchers) however they weren't among the models @forte listed as appealing to them so I decided to stick with just the domaru for simplicities sake (both list design and purchases). A pure Domaru link isn't so very different in the active turn since the team leader is the only one shooting. Of course, it's a completely different story during the opponent's turn. There are quite a lot of ways to run JSA and I enjoy exploring and reading about other peoples experiences with them as well. I like your aragoto list by the way, although I probably would have put Asuka in the small 2nd combat group and put Yojimbo in the main group. Since his extreme impetuous state forces him to spend that impetuous order it's better to be able to cancel it and still have more than a single order for him to throw smoke safely. (Sometimes you miss, even with PH14 at good range.)
  10. If it's a choice between doctor or engineer in a list I will usually defer to the the engineer. Doctors are great and in a list with infantry you'll usually have more models that could potentially be revived by a doctor but that's not the same as having greater opportunity for reward. Engineers will often see more situations where they can be useful (and I'm not just talking ITS missions) because in addition to fixing models with STR they also cancel any debilitative states (such as immobilised, burnt and isolated!) and they come with both D-charges and deactivators. (Not that I've ever remembered to use them in the current system but the deactivator is a very sweet bit of kit.) Part of the reason you are more likely to have situations where you can use an engineers skills are because in the case of fixing REM's, they have 2 levels of unconscious, making it harder to outright kill them, and a number of the status effects they can nullify are non-lethal (like immobilisation from an adhesive launcher). As for the original question for list ideas. What you have already come up with seems a decent starting point. I've probably defer to a domaru link and not bother with the keisotsu as all if you are hoping for a re-sculpt. How does the following look to you? Japanese Sectorial Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 18 2 1 OYAMA Lieutenant Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28) DOMARU Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW. (2 | 38) DOMARU Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 33) DOMARU Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 26) DOMARU Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 25) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) SHIKAMI Contender, Nimbus Grenades / Assault Pistol, DA CCW, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 45) MIYAMOTO MUSHASHI Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 24) YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21) GROUP 21 TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) 3.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army The rui shi is in there because Yojimbo gives you smoke and it's a very solid spitfire platform to begin with considering the Evo-hacker can give it some pretty useful support programs or help defend more generally against enemy hackers hoping to shut down your heavy infantry. JSA are not the best shooting faction and their CC specialisation is something you will want to take advantage of but Infinity is a game where the ranged game is king, you must have some form of respectable ranged presence. A domaru spitfire isn't the most threatening thing in the world but as part of a full link it's still pretty solid. Linking the domaru also means they can advance up the table quicker and the last thing most opponents want to see are half a dozen combat monsters at their doorstep. If domaru get close enough to assault, stuff will die. The above list is far from optimised but does use all the pieces suggested in the opening post.
  11. I don't have to imagine. It's not always as bad as you might fear though. A lot depends on what you have and where it starts along with the mission you are playing. Admittedly this was due in part to me running very TO camo heavy lists so the game was a sequence of "surprise!" moments.
  12. It's been quite a long time since I last worried about my HI being hacked. Most of the time it's still quite order intensive and inefficient to actively hack them and in reaction you can usually work around areas where you'd be vulnerable to hacking. Reset and tinbots have done wonders (along with getting saves against most hack attacks using BTS) to mitigate the threat from hackers. Not to say it doesn't happen, just that it's rare. Taking your own hacker to put up fairy dust provides a good level of protection to stack the odds in your favour as well if you do have quite a lot of opponents bringing hacking tech.
  13. Even if you want to run most heavy infantry it's still best to try and get a full combat group of 10 orders if possible. Yu jing do have an advantage here because we can take kuang shi who provide a regular order (and impetuous one) for 5pts along with the benefits of their minder celestial guard who has a light smoke grenade launcher. This is typically how you can get more than half a list to be made up of expensive heavy infantry and still field a full combat group. I've aways had most success with these type of lists when running them in a sectorial. JSA can run a mean HI focused list made up of a core team of Domaru + Haramaki (typically featuring a pair of missile launchers) to threaten the table whilst a haris team of karakuri complete mission objectives (all karakuri are forward observers), something like this; Japanese Sectorial Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 3 OYAMA Lieutenant Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28) DOMARU Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 26) HARAMAKI Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 33) HARAMAKI Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 33) HARAMAKI Blitzen, Contender / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) KARAKURI (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, Chain Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 36) KARAKURI Mk12, Chain Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40) KARAKURI Heavy Shotgun, Chain Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 3.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army You can also go with ISS and achieve similar results with usually about half the list being HI and the rest a mix of specialists plus celestial guard with kuang shi. However you can do quite well with a vanilla list that sports 4-5 heavy infantry models who will do most of the legwork backed up by support from remotes and specialists. This is kind of what I'd be thinking of following this mindset. Yu Jing ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 1 HSIEN Lieutenant HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 53) YĀN HUǑ Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54) ZÚYǑNG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 28) TIGER SOLDIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army It's not a majority of HI but those that are there all can pull their weight and will likely be the dominant working parts of the list.
  14. We already have tinbot B options for both zuyong and shang ji so with link teams, doesn't that already make them close to unhackable? Especially if you also have fairy dust up, this is before we factor in reset to make it an actual face to face roll. I'm not at all confident we'll see major changes to the base profile though because they've been the same since the release of N3, although I guess since the changes to bounty hunters for ISS (including the character ones) anything is possible.
  15. Don't forget Sun Tze V1 has mimetism. I do agree that mimetism does feel pretty rare in Yu jing though.