• Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Time Online

    851d 4h 3m 3s

Community Reputation

1107 Excellent


About alphz

  • Rank
    Irregular, Impetuous


  • Location Auckland, NZ


  • ITS PIN H2638
  1. Why the duck is Canberra so expensive to fly to?!
  2. none of these bring the key advantages of a montesa who I've already posted I see as debatably reliable. Spitting up a bunch of units who are less efficient at doing what you advocate isn't making a convincing point at all. Ive already pointed out I know that doing damage is a strategy for first turn. I don't really see first turn gives you a damage advantage against a well deployed opponent, combined with a 2 order penalty. I've tried an alpha striking JSA list several times now and it's just too dicey with 1 wound models, having to throw smoke and get through the speed bumps. If you fail you're basically a turn down. there was shinobu, bikes, marksman Rui Shi and saito. i guess the old fall back at this point is: maybe it's the tables
  3. OK that's great guys, so far the feedback for winning when you have first turn is play pano. (This is a giant hint that it's gone way off topic). That said, a Montesa seems like they would be pretty good even if you took second turn too. So not sure it even answered the question. If it's not about getting kills but who you kill then there is not a lot argument for first turn in that. Sure second turn might give your opponent more chance of hunting out the montesa, but if he's dug in enough that's actually a win for you as they waste their first turn even harder.
  4. Oh sorry! The first question is about the gun. the second is about the pants. I'll edit the post for clarity!
  5. Hey experience painters! Hoping to get some tips as I'm struggling with a new scheme. Mainly with the gun and pants im using predominantly Vallejo model colours. First question, the gun: trying to get a ceramic Matt olive green/ khaki green. I tried highlighting by adding a light grey (medium sea grey) But not really sure to highlight it. Second question, The pants: I was trying for a mix of heavy green and turquoise. But it's come out very green and I think I'd rather a more blue green. overall not pleased but not quite sure what I'm doing wrong. Would appreciate tips and feedback!
  6. Im not saying it's not good. I'm saying things like, well actually, you're only getting 11s on a 16" bubble arc directly forward into the enemy dz.
  7. I can see when the montesa rolls hot it would absolutely devastate a list. And the inability to react to it would be frustrating to say the least. But then I can see it having a more statistically average game and killing 1-2 models. They might be relatively important ones, but is not what I'd call "gutting a list". And then you've got a 50/1 point model with a shitty gun and no defensive mods to speak of within 12" of my deployment zone which I'm going to wreck, so the trade will be relatively even. More importantly, in the grand scheme of the winning the mission, which this thread is about, I don't think the montesa has done as much as some other options in the 50/1 range would have. Unless you nail the Lt. Not much of our meta play obvious Lts, or if they are, theres CoC around. Is it a viable profile with an interesting and deadly threat range? Absolutely. Is it a reliable way to win with first turn? No. Edit: I'd like to add in a search of posts about montesas, you were the only panO player to actually advocate lgl. I think its worth considering how much your meta affects your opinion of the model.
  8. That's in a straight line only. do you guys not play with any low cover on Dz? In addition models passing dodges are moving away from the eachother, so relying on getting multiple shots on the same targets is unreliable.
  9. I mean sure, you can pull it off. But reliably? Against a variety of opponents? Maybe thats CHA's stick as I'm not familiar with them. But the advice doesn't really stick for many other factions/armies. and it fails the "is this risky test". Because you're spending a minimum of 3-4 orders getting across the table, realistically more to get rid of pesky AROs. After that, Unless you're then somehow nailing move-shoots on every order, stats are not in favour of you killing more than 1-2 minis. You could do this again with a second combat group, I guess? But then the counter attack is getting the chance to gut both your order pools in return. Where as ideally you should have specialists in one group. Maybe you need to give me a run down of a typical first turn for you? A forward deploy montesa just doesn't seem that amazing. Unless you can get 2-3 models in every shot you're looking at 13% to wound a celestial guard (PH10 -3 dodging) every order. This only increases to 30% once you're within 16". So Stastically, you're killing 2 (shitty) models in your first turn, because you need to move to get within 16". Maybe its a terrain thing, where Building rooftops, a little bit of interiors plus scatter means people aren't bunching more than 2 models behind 1 piece of cover unless they're packing 20+ orders. The key here is definitely usually. Having thought about it more, particularly after losing a game that in hind sight would have been much better for me to go 2nd (my opponent chose deployment). You need to know your list, and mine was just not set up for successful enough first turn in a game where second turn player could just win even with low orders. On maths, the -2 orders for first turn makes sense. If we assume two equally sized combat groups (full 10, no replacements), and both players inflicting similar casualties (1-2), both players end up with similar total orders in the game if you nick 2 from player 1. Player 1 also gets to affect player 2's order pool for 3 of player 2's turns, where as player 2 only gets to affect 2. So there is that. This however, is less significant as combat groups get larger, and players can replace losses with command tokens. Player 1 can only have 8 orders, whereas, if they inflict 2 casualties on player 2, they could opt to use command tokens to restore that group to 10 orders for their first turn. Or more commonly, player 2 speed bumps with a mix of units from different groups, making it difficult to make major dents into 1 combat group. This is an interesting dynamic to be honest, and I don't think its actually very imbalanced. However, once you compound that with many of the missions which favour going second either mildly to strongly, this turns the favour towards going second, and why I suspect many people lean towards preferring second now, but sometimes see merit in first turn. Another factor not often mentioned is to effectively use turn 1, you need to prepare your list to an extent. Whereas, I'd venture almost any list can do well with turn 2, mostly because of the variety of strategies available to win. First turn are left with 1 of 2 strategies; 1. Cripple the enemy in the opening rounds. Taking orders, specialists or both. 2. Play more conservatively but secure a strong objective lead and then set up a good defense in turn 3. Part of my dislike for first turn is neither of these strategies are interesting (to me). A fully committed alpha strike is similar to bring an Avatar. It can dominate the game and you win, or you opponent counters it and you're at a huge disadvantage. Trying to play a reactive turn on the last is equally unforgiving and uninteresting, as you put obstacles down and just see if your opponent can solve them.
  10. Everyone gets coats now! Edit: it's actually a real shame as there's only so much detail you can put on the coat, and they need a certain bulk due to material limitations that it's counter productive for CB to cover up their gorgeous minis in large swathes of flat pewter. Hopefully they don't get too carried away.
  11. I'm with you man. They also removed the cyber-braid The cloak definitely doesn't look like it has any continuity unlike the Hsien one. Which is a real disappointment, it feels very tacked on. And why is 10 out of 11 resculpted core yu jing heavies all dudes? Some of the most iconic were ladies, and amazing models. Yu Jing heavy infantry corps are becoming a real sausage fest.
  12. The swiss has been cleverly positioned that removing the sword and having an amazing pose for gaming is a piece of cake! 1. Cut sword right under hand. 2. File hand to have the crevice between fingers and palm again. 3. add tiny sausage of green for finger. Apply really thin layer onto filed areas as well. Allow to cure for a 20-30min 4. sculpt/file finger details. BAM pointing at the next victim. The daofei and guilang on the other hand.... Just look like the basic infantry with cheap cloaks tacked on. The daofei especially does not feel like a worthy successor to the stealthy-ness of the old model. and then more fuckin sword.... god damnit CB.
  13. That was a really good discussion about first vs second generally yeah. I was hoping this topic might look further into how the missions compound the benefits given to the 2nd turn player. The thing mentioned by phylkk (and others probably) that really stuck was spending orders pressing buttons early on is basically a waste of time. And that really is entirely down to the missions. What if in some of the missions, once a console was hacked, you couldn't hack it, or better yet there were decent penalties like -6 to do so. Immediately this disincentivises a holding strategy and pushes you into conflict. Well yeah, that is one strategy I know, but it tends to be pretty dicey and not something thats very reliable. You're putting a lot of your best stuff right into your opponents guts, and if they defend it well enough, will often make you pay. Not only that, but with 2 orders down, and having deployed first to somewhat show your hand, its just that little bit harder.
  14. Long has it been favoured, in games where players take turns, where initiative is to be had, where one can dictate the flow of battle. That taking the first strike, the first move has been the mantra.* But now it seems, infinity has turned this on its head, with its objective focus, mix of end of game scoring and end of turn scoring. Lest not forget the tactical use of command tokens. Second turn has become a fan favourite. But before you start furiously typing up a response to my vast swathe of generalised conclusions, lets focus on just 3 missions as they're what I was chewing on when these thoughts struck me like a geriatric pigeon on a Tuesday afternoon. Capture and protect Cold Sleep and to a less extent comms centre. Capture and Protect Capture and protect is a simple mission. You connect a console (and cannot prevent your opponent from connecting theres... besides bullets. theres always bullets) for 1 point and maybe get the classified for 1 point, but this isn't going to win you the game very often. You must capture the beacon. Now the beacon is a little tough to get to, being in the middle of your opponents line, right near their DZ. But with hidden deployment, bikes and smoke etc etc. its a hard ask for your opponent to actually stop you, all of that is very order intensive which means you probably wouldn't get far once you did. Which actually works greatly in the 2nd turn players favour. They only need to get to the beacon on turn 3 to score the 4 points. A first turn player has to get to it, and away to not get gunned down. Cold Sleep Cold sleep has a button pushing plus controlling consoles, but ultimately with how intelcom factors in you will be mainly winning on pressing buttons. Now 3rd turn is slightly less easy than with C&P above as at least your opponent needs to pass WIP rolls, but much the same dynamic emerges. As 3rd turn rolls round, the 2nd player has a number of options to seal the victory, either by parking on consoles or just flicking the requisite one more button than player 1. This is further enhanced by the fact that player 2 could be spending the first 2 turns just sniping specialists and skirmishing with the luxury of not needing to spend many orders on objectives just yet. Player 1 starts with less orders, and must be taking objectives in an attempt to create too large an obstacle for a third turn push, but the maths are not in your favour, you need to do more with less than your opponent. You need to do more with less than your opponent. The problems start right at the beginning of the game. Going first often means deploying first. Your opponent has the luxury of counter deploying to your potential opening moves. Then to rub salt, via tactical use of command tokens, they limit your orders by 2. Now starting your turn, against a better positioned enemy. You know that all they need to do is have enough orders by the 3rd turn to win. The primary means for you to win is to cripple them enough that they can't, but the above points have severely limited your ability to do so. Now, above isn't an detailed analysis of the starting positions, nor am I asserting that you can't win with first turn. But I do think that, in many missions, not just these three, I find myself feeling like the underdog before the gates have even opened. Fundamentally, I think a strong factor as to why I struggle as first turn player is that the second turn player can flick objectives/buttons as they need without a care for any progress the first player has made (controlled objectives are switched just as easily as uncontrolled objectives), therefore there is little benefit to switching objectives earlier in the game, when an opponent can flip them back with no malice. Do you guys have any brilliant strategies on how to win as first turn player? How do you prepare for it? What are your thoughts on the missions? Which do you think have less of a 2nd turn slant? *Yes, I know this isn't always true. But its controversial! Gets people going man.
  15. Have we seen a CAD model?!?