jfunkd

Warcors
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About jfunkd

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  1. I agree and disagree again. I agree that Joan in a HI core has some inherent limitations on her inspiring leadership, but she doesn't have to run that way in MO. My point was mostly based on running her in 14-15 order lists along side an Order Sergeant core. Based on my experiences, I can' t imagine vanilla getting significantly more out of Joan than MO does. I want to avoid talking in absolutes about Infinity tactics or strategies because so much is based on unit familiarity and personal play style. I get that she works well for you in vanilla and respect that. Joan's inspiring leadership adds efficiency that one normally doesn't get in vanilla anything.
  2. If you're judging this purely based on how many irregular orders she can make regular, then sure by that metric she is better. I disagree though that she is better overall in vanilla. I'm not going to say that MO is a MUCH better platform, but it's at least equal to what you get in vanilla. Getting the efficiency of a fire team and also utilizing Joan's coordinated order gives MO an incredible amount of tactical flexibility on the table. Her bonus SWC helps to leverage some of the efficiently point costed but high SWC cost Order Sergeant profiles. She also gives out Courage which gets around the one inflexible part of Religious. I agree with pretty much everything else you said.
  3. All I'm sayin' is Switch better convert to catholicism, the NeoPope and Space Jesus.
  4. Joan is a spectacular unit. I use her all the time in MO and never put her in a fire team. Often she is the only HI in my lists. Since the ALIVE team, Warcors and Techbee are all currently available to MO; I think she fits in fine there and can utilize inspiring leadership to get some cheap orders into a list. A warcor and Techbee make her a 57-58 point bundle that brings you three orders, a specialist, her coordinated orders, and couple of decent ARO pieces. With her statline and this order efficiency I simply cannot pass this deal up easily. She is almost an auto-include for me unless I am making a Knight link, where her inability to link with Magisters makes it all too expensive for my tastes. To leverage her statline, my plan with her is frequently the turn two or turn three bully unit. Using her offensively late in the game takes the bite out of frenzy and being aggressive with her on turn three means that if she drops you don't have to deal with LoL. I try to position her in turn one or turn two to be able to make an offensive run later on. Her free coordinated order is a flexible tool for her. Sometimes I use it simply as an additional order to get a spearhead specialist to push a button and get a unit or two better positioned. It is mainly important for order efficiency and it doesn't have to make a big play to be effective. It's really about what you need to do on the board at that time and less about trying to pull off some gimmicky trick like blasting one target with 3 panzerfausts... although that is spectacularly hilarious when you do it! The coordinated order for me frequently is used with TOFOOS. Getting these guys into suppressive fire midfield (after they have gotten objectives), or planting multiple mines, or getting back into a marker state is the most typically how I use it on turn one. I'd say that in over half of my games on turn one Joan puts herself, and black friar, and two TOFOOS on suppressive fire, and she maybe only sees one other activation if I need her placed better to act later on in the game. Honestly though after the first turn, her coordinated order becomes mostly about positioning multiple units. Infinity is a game of positioning long before it's a game about dice. Her coordinated order is best used to do anything that helps you win the scenario. In my last game (which I lost unfortunately), on turn three, Joan wasn't going to be able to reach my opponent's sole remaining specialist which would have sealed a win. I had a a Black Friar that probably could, but it was questionable whether or not I would have enough orders to get there seeing as I had to put down a unidron batroid on the way. Joan used her coordinated order to push out two order sergeants that had to break from a link to do so, and spearheaded the BF to shoot the batroid. Enough damage was done to get him past dogged and the BF was able to with my last order get his Multirifle on the specialist... only he failed the shot and died to the ARO sealing my fate in the match. In this instance the coordinated order was used more to get the BF into position than anything else and it gave me an opportunity to win the match even though it didn't work. This to me is the pinnacle of how to use her order efficiency, more so than the flashier uses of getting multiple units to do something cool. That said I do think using her coordinated order with TOFOOS is probably the best "standard" pairing because there are three options that can all be significant and you have the flexibility to choose which of the three works best depending on the board-state. Bulleteers and the Black Friar also coordinate well with her to suppressive fire and you want Joan in suppressive fire as often as you can in the reactive as she becomes very hard to beat in a FtF roll.
  5. 1) What do you think of this type of list/playstyle? I have played about 15 games with this link or the Santiago version. The problem with that link is that it is so expensive that it thins out the rest of your list to the point where you have to choose; do you want a few specialists? Some Support? or another aggressive unit. You can't really fit everything you want and have a decent order count. I try to end up with at least 11 orders in these lists and hope I can get 12-13. The Knight link with the HMG is a blunt instrument. The HMG allows you to bust ARO units by hitting them head on. It's not subtle and it can solve it's own problems. It can be incredibly powerful, but it is predictable, vulnerable to hacking if not supported, and prone to cascade failure. You have to leave the Magisters in cover as the front men when you enter your reactive to take advantage of their amazingly high target number AROs and decent armor and save the Hospitallers for the active turn work. 2) Thoughts on the attack pieces listed? Omissions? Konstantinos (Infiltrator) He is situationally useful and I take him based on scenario scoring. Typically, I use him to take and defend midfield objectives. He is a little weak in the 1st turn reactive if he doesn't get to go on suppression fire. At 34 points, this guy is going to be hard to fit into a list with a the link you propose. I think the TO FO OS is probably a more efficient spend here, you get some of the same utility a lot better passive defense in hidden deployment and he's 7 points cheaper. Montesa with Spitfire, Joan V2 (not LT) , Seraph I could not ever afford to put another HI or a TAG on the board beside a HI link in MO, I was never comfortable with the lack of specialists and support I had to give up to fit them in. Crusader Ok, this is a pretty good fit beside an HI link. One of the major issues with the HI link is you end up with so few units on the table and most of your points are concentrated in the link; it is usually pretty obvious what you are planning to do with them, so your opponent can position well and stop you. Additional and unpredictable threat vectors are extremely useful. A crusader allows you to get into places that the HI link cannot easily get to and gives you a ton of flexibility as to where you use him. The downside is, a prepared opponent with more units than you can easily stop you from walking him on. Used in tandem with the HI link though, you can sometimes clear his path with the HMG and then have him come on and get some work done. TO Order Sergeant MSR This guy has been my MVP in so many games I have lost count. His ability to infiltrate and hidden deploy allows for gotcha AROs and wicked surprise attacks to remove ARo units. He provides an additional, unexpected attack vector and an ARO unit that can often soak a bunch of your opponent's orders. You need a stubborn ARO unit in the Knight link lists. The Magister missile launcher alone is usually not enough. Fusilier Hacker You need fairy dust. This guy or the OS version, or Bit an Kiss... whatever floats your boat. If you don't take this I guarantee that your Knight link will be shut down by an assault hacker. With Fairy dust, stealth, SSL2 and reset you are only really vulnerable to hacking when a hacker (or repeater) is in ZoC during your active and you are attempting to do something that isn't directly opposed to the hacker. Fariy dust gives you effective BTS 6 on the Magisters and a godly 9 on the Hospitallers. With half your points invested in HI the hacker becomes a necessity. Switch He's good. He's hard to disguise in a list that doesn't take Joan, because the irregular order is open info (Warcor/Techbee being the most effective disguises I have seen) but he is a cheap specialist that can cybermask and also take out hacker threats to your Knights. Father Engineer (Machinist) It might not be necessary but I wont run a HI link without it. EM damage is absurdly effective versus HI and the only way to fix it is this guy. Cypher, a 19 point unit available to everyone can basically destroy your entire link if you don't have an engi. I'm just not willing to risk it personally. Black Friar MR This guy is a tool box, I wouldn't say he is an auto-include... but for me, i have a hard time making a MO list with out him. Albedo is the least impressive thing about him, but it makes him extraordinarily useful in the right situation. His MSV, Multirifle ammo, biowhatever, and drop bears make him very flexible on the table. He is able to solve problems that other units in MO cannot. 3) What do you do when you have second turn? (which, with a Wip2 LT, is quite often) Hopefully you got the favorable DZ! Honestly what you do here is largely determined by which faction you face and by what the scenario scoring is. For instance, are you playing vanilla Haqq? You better deploy to deal with a Fiday. Some general tips though you have basically have two options for 1st turn reactive; total cover or have some ARO units out. If your opponent is low on order count then being in total cover and letting him have the board is acceptable to preserve your order count. If you need to slow him down use the Magister Missile Launcher and panzerfausts as ARO units and be ready to pick them up with your Doctor. I usually use the TO OS MSR as an ARO unit as well. Some times he is sacrificed and reveals early in my opponent's turn for area denial and to soak up orders, and sometimes he reveals when my opponent has over extended and has few order left to deal with him. TO FO OS can also do some midfield speed bumps with ARO mine placement and being in inconvenient positions. (Last thing: my personal preference is to not field any remotes.) <- giving up the bulleteer and pathfinder is a rough personal handicap. Here is an example list I came up with and have played before. It can be played around with to include other options like the crusader, but there are a few units in here that I consider essential. Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 110 3 MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 41) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 41) BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) GROUP 22 FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
  6. If you know which missions you are playing, post them and we may be able to give more specific advice. I'm going to throw down some criticisms of the list as written. I think you are spreading the list in too many directions. A Seraph, mobility Joan, an order sergeant core and a crusader is diluting the function of each of the other choices. Having the Crusader in group 2 with so few orders packing a BSG is not going to work well a lot of the time. You will probably want to walk him on from the side and he often won't have orders to do enough. Bit and Kiss do very little for this team other than being a ADHL and a cheap specialist. You don't have a specialist in the core fire team, which limits it to one role. Only one SWC weapon makes it easily neutralized in its only function as an offensive or ARO unit. So here are two possibilities of the list rewritten with my preferences trying to keep it as close to your choices as I could. Seraph tournament ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 19 1 SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_1 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SWITCH 2 E/Mitter / 2 Stun Pistols, Knife. (0 | 14) JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49) GROUP 21 2 WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army and.... Seraph tournament ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 19 1 SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_1 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) SWITCH 2 E/Mitter / 2 Stun Pistols, Knife. (0 | 14) JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49) GROUP 21 2 WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) 6.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
  7. I feel it is pretty easy to judge ranges within about an 1 1/2" in line from DZ to DZ without the aid of these mats. They dont really make the more precise geusstimates any easier, and they do nothing for diagonal measurements. I have played on mine and liked how easily they made setting up objectives pregame.
  8. In Pano, Joan. It's not even close. I love the stat line, cost and utility of the MR Lt. option.
  9. I can agree with that, I haven't used one because it doesn't fit into my preferred MO playstyle. I don't think the profiles are bad, outside of the context of MO they could be attractive, but in MO they just aren't exciting enough for me to build a list around the utility that holo 2 can bring. At 56 points they do kind of require a list built for them IMO.
  10. I don't think the Ayyar comparison is even needed to point out that there is something not right with the KotHS profiles and costs as compared with the other/better options in MO. The Sepulchre are something just shy of being awesome. Additional load outs, one bit of utility gear, a FO profile, or grenades... or something, I don't know what. The LT profiles are nice in that because it's possible to break the obvious Lt thing, but for two points more you can get a specialist Lt, or for less points you get Joan. This unit seems best when used as a bully unit, so other than the "hide the Lt" trick there isn't much benefit to the Lt profiles to make up for the discount Fusi or arguably better utility that Joan gives. Well, he's not frenzy so that is something useful on a HI Lt. The combi rifle versions are impractical like the FK.. 50 point combi?!?!, but without getting a specialist option. Holo 2 is great and it's fantastic to see this gear in MO, but it doesn't seem to be enough to get players to take the KotHS. Personally I have never see this unit in played or often included in the lists player's post online. I've had some long conversations with several members of this community who are dedicated MO players, and they all seem to have about the same opinion on them. This could be group think; or it just may be that the profiles are expensive and redundant and that holo 2 just isn't enough to break it out over the lesser expensive HI that hit the table more frequently. Give this fella a Multi Rifle loadout with grenades or a LFT and I'd probably play it. Give this guy a FO profile and I could see several scenarios in which he would excel.
  11. Or just 4 Magisters, I did it once in N2... it was spectacular.
  12. You need more OS with HRL! (and auxbots!) I converted a Spitfire OS to have an assault pistol in place of the knife and put a HRL on the right arm, for a third I proxy the Magister with missile launcher. I used to play NCA so I have like 5 auxbots. To put it into perspective on running multiple high SWC OS, here is the list I have been running recently. It plays a lot differently than most of the MO lists I've run in the past, and it can actually play the objectives very efficiently. This list doesn't have to fall back on "shoot all the things and then score" PanO style. We dont need no knights ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 19 1 ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50) SWITCH 2 E/Mitter / 2 Stun Pistols, Knife. (0 | 14) GROUP 23 2 SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 7 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
  13. You've hit a topic that is close to my heart at the moment. The HRL OS with auxbot has been a fantastic unit for me recently. It is the most diverse "killy" unit in MO for 19 points. I have been running two in the list I have been playing a lot. I run them with MR Joan to keep the steep SWC cost affordable. I don't care that they can't coordinate with Joan because they both are in the second combat group, only being switched later when the body count permits; to go on the offensive with a decent order pool fueling them. @Daboarder makes a decent argument in another thread that because of the weak point of the controller that G:Sync units are no substitute for Warbands and I agree with that assessment; but these guys with a HRL, auxbot and assault pistol aren't trying to be warbands. They are truly a unique profile in Infinity and come with a lot of offensive and defensive utility. With MO's lack of HFT outside of the auxbots, I find these guys to be excellent in the role of guarding the DZ at deployment and that alone would probably be enough for me to take them at 19 points (or the 17 point without HRL). This unit ideally can function as a two wound unit with a disposable flamethrower, this is not terribly hard to setup defensively if terrain permits and you play a decent positioning game. Losing a 19 point model to an active turn order isn't a terrible loss, especially when the unit has a decent chance of doing damage in ARO. When it costs two orders to remove because your opponent has to go through the auxbot first; it becomes a fantastic trade. You want to force your opponent to attack units like this and leave your specialists alone. Offensively this guy is a toolbox. He has very forgiving range bands with the pistol and HRL. He frequently forces dodge AROs with the DTW while pumping 4 shots with the assault pistol, or 2 shots with the HRL. This unit can affect a lot of units in the active turn with two template weapons and the auxbot doesn't even have to shoot the same targets. Also it can fire two weapons with Fire ammunition in one activation and each one has the potential to cause multiple wounds/structure damage. I have been fielding one on each flank and I am finding that I can often catch opponents models out of cover with one or the other in a good range band and this guy is hitting the HRL on 15s. I can't sing this profile's praises enough, it has become an essential component of my MO forces.
  14. I always want at least one, unlinked MSV in my MO lists. Usually it's the Black Friar with MR because he brings so much utility. Prior to N3 I was using the Spitfire Specialist sergeant quite a bit. I could see running one spec sergeant and one OS in a link, and it should work if you need a list to fight camo spam (taking the BF as well) but I wouldn't give up the BF for a Spitfire Spec Sergeant though, the MSV sergeant is pretty dedicated in it's role and the BF is more of a tool box. Alternatively two in a link isn't a terrible idea, especially if you aren't afraid to break the link and put them on suppression midfield. You can always relink on your following turn if they need to relocate. Personally I don't think I would give up the HRL for the second spitfire and 3 SWC selections in the link seem too many. I have to admit, I have a lot of trouble fielding the MSV-2 Spitfire in N3. I feel for 19 points and 1.5 the Spec Sergeant with HRL and Auxbot just brings more to the table for fewer points (assuming I have MSV-2 somewhere else in my list), so I actually converted my second spitfire OS to a HRL.
  15. I have played multiple Joan's frequently using switch or a spec ops. I used both Joans in a coordinated order and I was told that spending the Lt order revealed the Lt, even when using it to power Joan's inspiring leadership coordinated order, so I played it that way. I have since looked the rules up and cannot find which rule would announce which Joan is the real Joan under those circumstances. The IMPORTANT bullet point, seems to be a reminder that spending the Lt order on your TL will show your opponent which unit is your Lt when it is spent soley on him/her; but spending it as a coordinated order has no obligation to define who's order is being spent. It's obvious per inspiring leadership that it's the Lt's order being spent, and that the LT has to be a part of that coordinated order, but it shouldn't identify your Lt... Unless I am missing something.