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About Sedral

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  1. Actually that's what i meant: i DO think skill matter more than list building. I was tired and wrote "hopefully" instead of "fortunately"... Also i've joined the forum exactly 1 year and 11 month ago, so i think their clock is kinda broken
  2. To be fair, 5-man fireteam bonuses would require an additional 23pts minimal investment (zhanying shotgun). But yeah even though an HI in supressive fire is a good speed bump, a full fireteam of them with appropritate stuff is waaaaaaaaaaaay better. I suggest you take a look at wu-ming duo if you want to go the supressive way: with combi/mines and SMG/CR, they're a good disposable team.
  3. It's been said earlier in this thread, but some Post-Humans proxies just clearly outshine other similar choices, so unless you decide to limit yourself, you'll never take a Dasyus Sniper before the MK2 sniper, or a dactyl doctor if MK1 doc is still available. MK3,4 and 5 are better in this regard because they don't bring the same stuff as other units but on a better plateform for half the cost. If you look at other Aleph's unit in their point range, HI proxies are mostly trading speed/modifiers/MSV for tankyness. Yeah but In Vanilla Aleph an order is worth 4pts. Okay let's say 10pts for the other required proxy. The Dasyus is still worse, and more expensive. Probably not 20 orders (though it might be worth a try), but Post-Humans let you bring a good amount of elitish units while keeping an healthy number of orders. And I'm ok with Aleph being able to do that, i mean that's the whole point of AI beacon to begin with: cheap-ass orders for your big bad boys, so you can field more of them. Combined Army got the same stuff, and it's fine. Post-Humans are just another step taken in this direction. And as i said, as far as external balance is concerned it's probably fine because player skill determines like 80% of the game outcome, so even if Post-humans actually shift the balance towards the Aleph player it's probably not significant enough, but that doesn't stop them from stealing the show when you build your list, because if you want a doc and a TO sniper, MK1 and MK2 proxies are logically and satistically better choice than a dasyus and a dactyl.
  4. ALEPH ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 2 PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) DASYU MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 42) 3 SWC | 66 Points Open in Infinity Army 18pts discount flat, more like 20pts if you take into account the stats bumps for the proxy (BS 12 / Wip 13 -> BS13 / Wip 14, but you lose multi-terrain). The argument that Post-Humans are fine because they don't generate orders falls flat when you consider how much orders you can get thanks to the insane discount they have for not generating orders (plus some other stuff that is so easily manageable that it's not even worth talking about it, though not being able to put all of them in the same coordinated order can be annoying i guess). Even without talking about netrods, just look at this: ALEPH ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 11 DASYU Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 40) GROUP 22 PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) PROXY Mk.1 Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 1 SWC | 79 Points Open in Infinity Army Here i have two units with pretty much the same loadout, but the best one also brings twice the orders and thrice the bodies (for board control). It's even worse for the dasyus because as a TO his order isn't added to the pool until he reveals, whereas the proxies still generate one thanks to the MK1. The problem with Post-Humans is that they give you the cake (powerful pieces), let you eat it (cheap enough to get enough orders to fuel them), but also add a cherry and some cream on top of that (you can lose one of them and still keep the same number of orders). It's problematic for internal balance, and potentially dangerous for external balance, but fortunately player's skill matters more than list building in this game, so even if the aleph player has a possible advantage it might not be big enough to actually influence the outcome of the game.
  5. Making a good vanilla Yu-jing list at 200pts is really, really tricky. You want to reach the holy grail that is 10 orders, but you also need good stuff to use them effectively (and, let's be honest, to have some fun, because playing plain mooks isn't really interesting). In this regard, i think the Red Veil starter is bad. It has everything you need to build fun and effective 300pts list, but it's not so great for 200pts: 180pts in 7 models, 2 of them are starting of the board (so effectively 5 orders), you have only one heavy weapon and no stuff for ARO. So yeah sure you can go the way @Reservup did with the shaolin, but this doesn't solve anything (except the lack of smoke to combo with the Hsien). My first advice woul be to choose either the ninja or Tiger when you make a list, not both. They've got different abilities but they're still kinda similar in term of point cost and role (30-ish trick up your sleeve who can murder stuff and, eventually, grab objectives). My second advice would be to buy a box of kuang-shi and a box of yaokong remote. Kuang-shi are the easy way to solve the "oh no i don't have enough order" issue, especially at 200pts. They're usefull for ISS, and considering the models you like you might want to try it at some point. Proxy a zanshi for the controller if you don't want to buy the ISS starter or a Celestial Guard box. Keeping the Kuang-shi alive to save their orders might be a bit tricky for a beginner though (look up what extremely impetuous does), but it's doable. Note that your Kuang-shi controller also has a smoke grenade launchers, and smoke + Hsien = Greatness! The Yaokong remotes are really usefull. You just need a hacker in your list to field them (zhanshi, ninja, tiger, hac tao, whatever!), but they provide both cheap orders and ARO capabilities. Husong-like remotes are common sight on Infinity's board, and they're one of the few good ARO unit you can find in Vanilla Yu-jing. Chayi remotes are cheap (8pts), fast moving repeaters and annoying little piece of scrap metal (mimetism + flash pulse is infuriating). Weibing are fast specialist with a combi-rifle, a repeater and a sensor (good to fight camo and TO camo). In the end, here's my advice for a well rounded 200pts Vanilla List: Yu Jing ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 2 HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) ZÚYǑNG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 28) TIGER SOLDIER Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 4 SWC | 200 Points Open in Infinity Army You have your 10 orders, 3 funny guys to spend your order on, 2 REM to makes your opponent lose orders and 2 specialist to push buttons. If you want more specialist, i think something like that might be good too: Yu Jing ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 2 HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) ZÚYǑNG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 28) ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 3.5 SWC | 200 Points Open in Infinity Army
  6. Note that "speciality" often means "hard to wrap your head around". In this regard, i think both JSA and ISS are hard for new players (been playing exclusively ISS for two years, and i keep figuring new stuff everytime i play). I think Vanilla is much easier to learn how to yu-jing, especially if you focus on Invincible and Huangdi stuff. They're kinda straight to the point, you stomp stuff with big meany HI, and you have a few tricks up your sleeves (guilang, monks, tiger soldiers). Later on, you can add a few ISS or JSA units to learn how they operate and get a quick view of the sectorial's playstyle (oniwaban, ninjas and aragotos for JSA, kuang-shi, su-jian, smoke trick and sensor stuff for ISS).
  7. Oh well, i stand corrected, i really didn't think it was possible to take a full HI group with military orders (i forgot the teutons actually existed. Like everyone else...). But i beg to disagree on JSA. Most of their HI are absurdly cheap, so you can have some variety around your Domaru/haramaki Core (while keeping Neko Lt, the spitfire and the missile launcher) :
  8. Order sergeants are the best line troop option. period. They have infiltrated TO specialist, TO multi-sniper, MSV2 spitfire. Sure you won't have 20 orders, but if you want to play line troopers and nothing else, you should go military orders. As for HI spam, Vanilla Yu-jing and JSA are the only factions who can field a 10 order group exclusively made of HI (JSA even got some spare points for funny stuff and good order efficiency with fireteam core/duo all around. Need a shikami or sexbot karakuri to push button though).
  9. Transcript of Imperial Agent Li Lóng Kuài (Rank: Crane) speech to Imperial Service's 12th Division Xuèxīng dàolù: Fellow Agents! Today is a glorious day! I know most of you still feel dishonor after what happened on Paradisio. Know that I do. Operation Flametriske. It was a disaster. A black stain on our division's record. We failed, fellow Agents. Our glorious Emperor HIMSELF was counting on us, and we failed him. Never Again! To ensure that such calamity never happen again, we did what we had to. We purged our ranks from traitor and weaklings, because our Emperor should only be served by the most loyals of his subjects, the strongest of his warriors! And look at you now, fellow Agents. Fierce, smart and relentless. I'm proud of you, of what you've become. And so is our Emperor. He saw our determination. He saw our will to fight for him. And in his great gentleness, he decided to give us a chance to finally atone for our failures. We are moving to the Wotan's Blockade. It would seem that a bunch alien scums almost made it to one of Yu-jing's most precious planet, Huangdhi (ed: Svalarheima), aboard a Nomad's Ship. Thankfully, some lucky Ariadnese drunkard discovered them and we avoided what would could have been the end of the Human Sphere. But the Emperor, in his infinite wisdom, decided that such serious matter should be handled by the most competent Agents in the Empire: us. Fellow Agents! Today is a glorious day! Today, we recover our pride! Today, we fight for the glory of Yu-jing! And tomorrow, thanks to you, fellow Agents, our Emperor will rule the Human Sphere!
  10. I usually go for the sniper nest if i go first and can promptly hunt most (if not all) of my opponent's long range attack pieces. Note that it's also precisely why a sniper nest can be very valuable in certain situations: if you leave a guy on ground level, it's way "easier" for your opponent to go after him, whereas if he is prone on a rooftop*... I just had a tournament today, and i think my first game was a good example of this (@Ayadan can confirm): ASA vs ISS, my linked celestial guard sniper on his rooftop basically dominated the board once the montesa spitfire was dead, and his montesa combi/LGL was prone on top of a tower near the middle of the board. Even though my sniper was pinning him down, he was mostly out of reach. Finally, he sent a naga to kill my sniper which took him a bunch of orders, but once he was dead his montesa climbed down and won the game for him. Long story short, some games are won and lost on rooftops. There are pros (wider board coverage, safety) and cons (decreased mobility, possible multiple ARO/Active turn threat) that you should keep in mind when deploying. *Note that an expensive active turn bully (like a Yan-huo, or a spetsnaz) prone in a sniper nest can make a good bait, since your opponent might try to pin it down with multiple ARO. It can also lock a bunch of defensive spot (for links or guys in supressive) if your bully/sniper can see them just by standing up.
  11. I'd love to see one following a japanese scum freedom fighter , starring ISS as the main vilain. With eventually interference from other factions (like, idk, support from the nomads or Hexahedron).
  12. Spam also feels cheesy and not really fun, especially in a game where it's not mandatory to perform.
  13. Well, it might be a recent change, but marksmanship LX specifically says that "The user must be using a BS Weapon with a B value of 2 or more after applying Modifiers." and the saturation zone rule applies a burst modifier "Any BS Attack from, into, or through a Saturation Zone suffers a -1 Burst MOD") therefore you shouldn't be able to use it in a saturation zone with a B2 weapon (but it works with the posthuman MK12). Marksmanship Lx also says "This Special Skill allows the user to reduce the B value of his weapon to 1, and in return apply to that single shot a +6 BS MOD." which imo means you can't actually split burst with marksmanship LX. It's the B value of the weapon that is reduced, not the number of burst in the BS attacks. It's not a mod, your weapon's burst goes straight up from X to 1, and you can't split a burst you don't have.
  14. marksmanship LX doesn't work through nimbus (not on a B2 weapon at least). It's a niche skill anyway, but on the 5 units who have it Lunah is the one who can make the most out of it: she's the only one able to reduce the opponent's odds (surprise shot + mimetism) which limit the risk of rolling low and being beaten by a slightly better roll, and unlike the pheasant sniper or Teucer she can't ignore mimetism/Camo/ODD/TO so she might want to use it when facing this kind of guys. In stats: Lunah Surprise shot + MMLX vs Lasiqs (BS 12 viral sniper with mimetism) Lunah surprise shot B2 vs Lasiqs Lunah surprise shot + Marksmanship LX vs Hexa Sniper (Bs 12, TO) Lunah Surprise shot B2 Vs Hexa sniper Also, limited camo on a sniper means you can get out of the DZ and roam around freely until you reach the perfect spot to deliver your deadly surprise shot. It's extremly valuable in ISS, where you either have to gun down the stuff pinning you down or throw smoke everywhere if you want to move forward. Hell, when talking about mobility it's even better than Su-jian's 8" cautious move!
  15. @Mahtamori Oh i see, i didn't understood it like that, i though you were more concerned about unit design but number of profiles could be an issue i guess. So yeah sure, ISS and JSA both have more units than Invincible or Banners, but it's quite logical considering the later don't have their own sectorials yet. With IA and White Banner we'll surely see plenty of new units, and the older ones will finally get what they need to shine: less competition and linkability (Zhanshi/Zuyong just need that, really). As for unit design, the agents are purely and solely focused on visors and sensors, so as i said just look at all the sectorials across the game that still have a lot of unit diversity without visors/sensors. Cheap and Semi-cheap units will come in time, with their own, original stuff. There's no need to steal agents from ISS to fill the rank of IA. And the LI section in yu-jing isn't more crowded than Pano's, Nomad's or Ariadna's. Zhanshi are fine, but in vanilla they're outshined by keisotsu because of their cost, and CG because of their stuff (kuang-shi controller, eventually hacker, and that's it). Once we'll get banners, Zhanshi will finally have a reason to exist.