Teslarod

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  1. CC is by far the deadliest thing in the game. As usual for PanO there are capable choices outperforming others. A Magister/Santiago/Hospitaler/DeFe/Joany Link can keep up with the best and all of them are capable and deadly on their own. It's mostly the combination of MA, Feenzy/ExImp and decent CC stat that keeps them good. Fatherknight, Montesa, Locust and Teuton all have useable CC Skill and the means to get in Range by shooting their way there. A second wound on CC guys really helps getting to use it and make it stick. But they're all lacking a Skill or two of those making the earlier Options a full package. KothS is just a Hospitaler with slightly different Stats and a Holo Projektor for Surprise Attack/Shot. Inbetween the cost for Holo2 and the discount for Frenzy the KothS ends up 15 points more expensive and very limited in Options for a quite similar platform. That's imho just not enough for the 56 points next to Joan, Santiagos or Hospitalers. MA3/4 + DA CCW and Surprise Attack would make him very deadly in CC for his premium pricetag. I'd love that as it would be a Knight with PanO's highest CC capability as well a way to get there - for a lot of points.
  2. @SmaggTheSmug you lost me the second where an expensive MA3+ troop is a faction feature. YJ has stuff that is worlds above that if you care about keeping things distinct. Heck, PanO already has two named MA3 HI. Looking at our specop characters who can't be bothered to train their shooting skills beyond linetrooper capability, what would be the reasoning behind not handing out MA 1-3 to some more Knights for the according price when it's already in the faction? You said it yourself, it's only half as strong as usual and is mostly defensively. Sure would be nice if it would at least be on a somewhat useable level though.
  3. You can do something your entire life and never be good at it. Especially in games the vast majority, 80+% of players, will never reach any kind of mastery. That isn't an opinion btw, that is the average spread in any competetive game. So I specifically included several conditions for why some people know better than others. More experience, more diverse factions and an ITS record to show for it. You then failed to catch that and decided it would be worth your time and worth wasting mine and here we are. I do care about participating, yet another thing you got wrong for gawd knows what reason. However I do not care for everyone to participate, by now I do not see for instance what you are contributing by doing any of this. There still hasn't been a single comment directed at the like what... 5 or more valid major points I could come up with? Instead you feel inclined to play the butthurt victim and have the nerve to waste my time with whatever the heck you're trying to misread this time around. At this point I'm assuming you're deliberately trolling or are simply unable to take the high road the same way as I refuse to take that option. (I'm simply not a better man than anyone, so I don't see the point) So I can wholeheartly recommend using the ingore feature of this forum the same way I just did. Trust me it's a relief and you'll feel much better not reading any more mean comments.
  4. See?... just kidding, small sample size, but I assume a TO Sniper wouldn't have had the same problem. I don't know how much more I could have done to emphazise that I didn't really care to take the time to validate the points being made. The other side has shown no interest whatsoever in having a discussion nor to let the people interested in one do so in peace. Which sadly is just the usual. You don't know me very well, do you? (I really don't give much of a damn about internet points.) Actually a small miracle no one has started to throw "hyperbole yadda yadda" around. Oh btw if the nay sayers could be bothered to dismantle any of my arguments that would be much appreciated. Really guys, dislike how I do things as much as you like, but if you can't take the meat of my post apart what are we even arguing for? Internet honor? I don't have time for that kind of stuff.
  5. Please do looking forward to it - also you damn madman, I hope he dropped on the first hit I thought it would give people some reason to critique the small sample size, might as well leverage it for 2 seperate gripes. Yeah, the guy who wrote that is a real meanie to state his observations and have an opinion about it in the anti PanO safespace.... wait this is the PanO forum... why do people expect to talk shit and not get a response in kind? It's almost like one of these throwing stones in a glass house things. For what it's worth that comment was definitely not directed at you, but if you want to take offense anyway I have no objections. Think she hands down won me 3 out of my 5 last games and contributed to my win in the other 2 (really hate the model though..... always falls off the base ).
  6. Reading this was quite the roller coaster, from "A Jotum in a sock could do wonders to beat some sense into these people." to "Well, that guy might have gotten it the third time someone explained it." and "Selective reading seems to be a thing again, the PanO guys literally just wrote five times there needs to be some caution not to buff the faction as a whole.... whelp here goes nothing, next genius ranting about it anyway." The Smoke/Eclipse argument has been beaten to death, unlife and then back alive again at this point. Yet people still grasp at straws why this and that shouldn't be available and why the shitty troops should be shitty cuz of reasons. I'm still choking down a little laughter from where @PsychoticStorm claims ISS still needs all the help it can get while imagining @Vaulsc reaction to that statement. So here it is again, the list of shitty things which only exists in every PanO player's head and totally aren't real: - Garbage tier Dire Foes/named Spec Op characters. Rao, Singh, Konstantinos, Bipandra comfortably take the cake for the most uninspired and unnecessary of their brethren. Next to Lupe, Isobel, Yurika and all their many other equivalents they're not just bland but also rather insultingly bad at the one thing they can't actually do properly. Rao gets a special mention as he isn't bad and just bland. - +1 BS that isn't free being a significant advantage. Put a Swiss next to a Hac Tao and tell a PanO player +1BS for +4CC, DA CCW, Nanopulser and WIP 14 isn't a decent trade for 1BS. I'll give you that it is great on Linetroopers and HMGs with shooting MODs. BS 14/15 is actually not faction exclusive either, even then it is easily outperformed by MSV1s and Mimetism for less points in quite a lot of situations. - No Smoke. Don't worry about the GDA, the LSG on his Auxbot is actually worth more than the Eclipse LGL. Pretend we're talking about NCA and MO if it makes anyone feel less insecure about his understanding of game mechanics. - No Warbands. This actually isn't specifically about the Warbands. It's about low cost models with ridiculous durability and utility for their points. Even used as nothing but a bullet sponge that drops in 1 Order these little buggers are great. I personally use the Warcor every game because he fulfills a similar role, just a cheap body that might hit that one crucial Flashpulse every 10 games. Otherwise it's still worth it if he eats a single Order. A Dogged Warband capable of FTF with Smoke on 15+, threatening a lot of troops with DTW/Pistol and bringing it's own 2 Orders to get close and/or drop Smoke is fantastic Order Economy either way. - Great new additions that fall flat halfway through. I love the Techbee, mechanically speaking it's one of the strongest additions to PanO during my playtime. Disposable 5 point Specialist with Flash Pulse? Hell Yeah! Special Rule that introduces +1MODs for no reason whatsoever? Well, that seems like a "Fuck You" to me, pretty insulting to sit on the receiving end of, really. Getting TAG Pilots that are Specialists? *slightly less enthusiastic* Hell Yeah! Getting the only ones with WIP10 (together with the Spinx) while everyone else (including Xeodrons) gets WIP13? Erm... okay wasn't WIP12 on the TAG itself enough of a downside so PanO had to be screwed over twice? Heck maybe WIP11 so it's 12 with a Techbee? No? Has to be 10 base? Yeah thanks I guess, would have been great if it wouldn't feel like getting screwed again tho. No matter guys lets keep optimistic, the Blackfriar Multirifle is great, surely the Sniper will be a distinct, unique.... well fuck me it's a Nisse trading Mimetism for a Nanopulser. The interesting stuff all gone, at least 1 good Profile I guess. Someone just won Interplanetario with it, that should prove that YANC (yet another Nisse clone) is basically guaranteed to be useful anyway. - Running with Rifles. Be it a multitude of Specialists, normal troops or whatever. The lack of gun flexibilty, bad synergy with secondary armaments and hillariously lacking availability of non Rifle Specialists is concerning. Now wait, what about the Hospitaler Doc you ask? Glad you asked, as it is an easy mistake to make. No one is complaining about the good ones. We'll happily run them any day of the week, but the bad ones are numerous and of great concern. The various naked Combis, Combis + LSG and Combis + Assault Pistol are the death sentence for many a great troop indeed. At the same time SMGs or Boarding Shotguns with bloat are at an all time low and severely lacking all over the faction. - The largest amount of clone troop duplicates and a severe case of dead Profiles. "Orc AHD", if you don't get the joke - neither do I. - The lack of capable decicated CC and a way to use it. Doesn't have to be Smoke, really. TO or Camo would do just fine, but alas there is none. A lot of Knights all fall a bit short. No MA4 in the entire faction and no MA at all at some capable CC pieces is a bit of a bummer. Montesa, Fatherknight and Sepulchure could all be very competent choices with a little bit more punch in this regard. Without Smoke PanO CC suffers the same fate as PanO's Visors - even if it is there, it's still just not as great. May I remind you that certain 5 point Warbands are capable to handily match PanO's elite in CC? This is more of an amusing observation than a complaint, really. MA3/4 Sepulchures would be unique and interesting after all. What a stupid thing to imagine in PanO, back to the salt mines folks. Well it is late, I'm dead tired and half of the stuff probably won't make much sense to some of you (judging by the quality of some of the arguments here, really guys.... one should know better than trying to lecture other people a thousand games, 3 Factions worth of experience and a couple hundred ITS Ranks your senior. Been there, done that, just doesn't work. By the way @Daboarder, I'll still fite you about the FK ML, abomination of a Profile ).
  7. As someone who never played N2 I have my suspicions that some people might be simply a bit salty about the glory days of the humble Auxilia. Since I never got to experience them in a different way than how they currently are, I pretty much bloody love what the Auxilia FO does for 15 points. He has a lot of downsides (no Coordinated Orders as mentioned, BS11 on a troop that pays for BS12 or 15 points for a troop that tshould cost 14), but over all it's a Specialist that can punch way above his weight class up close thanks to a little help from his friend. Specialists and backup punch is what wins a game after somehow losing all your Guards and Bulleteers. For a cheerleader they are expensive, but not that expensive, and come with an ablative layer of Auxbot and are basically a Rifle+HFT much like a Naffatun (with FO). 6-4 on the Auxbot is valuable, being able to attack different targets or multiple targets at once is valueable, double Discover/open Panoply is valueable, the Flash Pulse ARO is valueable, getting an FO/unhackable Specialist in PanO or even just something that is more than just a Rifle in PanO is valuebale. Being almost twice as expensive than a Fugazi they don't scale indefinitely and you don't really want more than one or two, but as bland as they appear to be, they can do basically everything (except taking on targets outside of 16") if you need them to. @SmaggTheSmug No Bolts don't work anything like Auxilia. Auxilia are expensive cheerleaders and capable last ditch effort troops to fall back on as a makeshift solution to most problems. Bolts need to be actively played to their strenghts throughout the game to be worth it. Auxilia can fit into every list, Bolts need space something else might be able to utilize better.
  8. Whelp, it was late, that should have been NCA. Thanks for pointing it out mate. Fixed it.
  9. @KanluwenSo do you expect me to play dumb and ignore how points work or what exactly is your goal here? Drop Bears are 3 points. LSGs are 4 points. That horrible MMR Locust you apparently seem to like pays 3 points for MMS L1 for the same reason - because that's what the Skill costs you, even if it's not that great here. Would be much better on a Breaker Rifle Locust (He would have gotten an extra ARM roll per hit out of the deal) but he can't have the Skill thus doesn't have to pay for it. The only way for Bolts to be ever worth it is to leverage linked Drop Bears and utility pretty hard. It's not ideal, but you won't get much more than a Linked SWC weapon out of Fusiliers anyway most of the time. So might as well consider building a list that has other reactive pieces and can Mine corners that are also covered by those. Winning the mission wins the game and you ultimately do that by wasting Orders not by spamming the cheapest troops. Putting up a decent amount of roadblocks, cheap bodies and annoying Markers to chew through leads to a lot of Order Attrition. Works probably better when defending Zones or a static objective in your half instead of Firefight, it isn't always ideal and it won't win you the game by itself. Warbands don't do that either, they're just expendable enough that you don't care if 1 out of 3 trades favourably. The only thing Bolts are actually good at is Drop Bears so that has to be utilized and why you take them, 20 points basic Bolts would still be shit as a gunfighting Link. Drop Bears can always be used preemtively that's what makes them useful. No matter what you're running against, every Order Spend on a 70% Chance to drop down two of them costs the other guy an Order as well. Sometimes that'll be a Warband Dodging the Bear in it's impetous Order anyway, sometimes it'll be a Myrmidion Officer failing his Dodge. It's just a matter of littering the field enough Drop Bears, TR Bots staring at corners and Hexa Snipers to stack them with to make it stick. Should have probably mentioned the TO part earlier. Every game I play NCA there is one or more Swiss or Hexa around. Everyone knows how easy it is to trap a corner using a TR Bot and a TO Sniper. Trapping the same corner with a Drop Bear and a TO Sniper is usually even better as the Drop Bear can't be canceled with a BS Attack. Stacking all 3 is just nasty. Guess you guys don't play against Aleph, Bakunin or Steel Phalanx as much as I do - Mines are awesome against Skirmishers, NWI troops and 1W dudes with >PH13 in general. In your active turn Drop Bears are Mines with 8" throwing range to set up for the Bolt himself or something more nasty. Try using Drop Bears aggressively like you would on a Minelayer and defensively like you'd use Koalas, NCA doesn't really have access to those. Stack a Drop Bear or two with a Repeater against a Hackable Target and watch it squirm in it's active turn without you having to do a thing about it. The real benefit at hand is pitting the Drop Bear and something else against the same target, offensively or defensively. Everyone who is aware just how strong attacking the same target with multiple things at once should get it. Against stuff like G:Sync HFT and Spitfire, Mine+Combi BS Attack or Coordinated Panzerfausts there are only bad answers for the guy on the receiving end. Some things turn into more than the sum of it's parts. Now that still won't make up for everything and how much bloat Bolts suffer - full 5 man Link is not a good option. They're auxiliary or counterattack troops and it's damn hard to put them to good use. Considering that they clock in around the same cost of a Swiss you have to spend Orders on them and use them during the game. They don't fit into group 1 of a NCA list. Building a list that has them makes you wonder if an extra Swiss wouldn't have been better. I wouldn't expect to see their value without givem them a try though. Oh and I really wouldn't forget about B2 E/M Grenades - the other thing Bolts and no one else in NCA gets.
  10. No idea what about "Drop Bears are 3 points and it has nothing to do with Bolts other than they have them" is hard to understand. You could whine about everything using that argument.... from Combi Rifles to ARM to Sensor to Mimetism.
  11. Thanks for pointing it out, that's actually also handy. Means you can Move + B2 Dropbear and then Move + Reload with the Mulebot, covers more ground and gives you 360 vision to put them down while moving. Actually preferable for coverage. 4 Orders for 6 Dropbears while moving up to 12" sounds alright.
  12. I actually like the single dice ARO 1W crits. Keeps single W models from being as reliable as HI/TAGs and forces you to have a backup plan (or two). "Oneshot crits" are more annoying (E/M, Mono, Isolation, EXP ammo).
  13. Equipment costs points, are you really surprised about that? 3 Points is quite a lot for equipment, but I wouldn't exactly call linkable Drop Bears compare to the other 2 options. The others also die like flies to Mines and Warbands. ... not really motivated to point out Bolt's severe limitations and tiny niche again tbh. Bolts are basically only useful in NCA and with at least two conditions attached, but they do littering Drop Bears fairly well with B2. Just looked it up, my example was actually wrong - you can reload+throw Drop Bears in the same Order so you get 12 BS14 Drop Bears out of the 6 Orders in my example. That's actually a lot better than I thought.
  14. Crit effects are Ammunition related. So they could easily let Mono and K1 keep their autowound on a Crit, while EM/AP/Normal/DA etc would get to roll against ARM 0 or get +6DAM for instance.
  15. I friggin love how dope the Teuton with the sword on his shoulder looks, it's just the old paintjob that makes it look weird on official pics. Not that it helps much because the profiles are all over the place. The EXP CCW profile is actually not that bad in Vanilla, but there is so much stuff you'd rather take Boy don't get me started on PanO named Characters that aren't Joan. @Guardian They're not particulary bad, just badly optimized. The main problem is that other faction's Dire Foes are usually batshit crazy good with their respective Links where PanO's Dire Foes are subpar options. In case of Konstantinos neither OS nor he himself is particulary attractive next to a HI Link with Magisters or TOFOOS, Bipandra gives you a LSG and WIP13, but costs you an Order and 0.5SWC compared to a Fusilier + Trauma Doc. Now take a look at Lupe Balboa, who turns an Alguacil Link also into a Jaguar Link. Smoke, Panzerfaust, Dogged, Mimetism, BS12 - all of this makes for a great package that adds huge versatility. Beats adding a Light Shotgun doesn't it? Rao is probably the best of the bunch with his WIP14 Lt Profile and Assault Pistol and adding a 6th Linkable body to have a backup. Still not amazing, just useful. Bolts on the other hand aren't even bad, they're just not good for their points at using guns, demand your the Fireteam Core slot and require the rest of the list to be somewhat spammy as they aren't good at spending Orders to kill things directly. A Core of 3 Bolts in your 2nd group is very annoying to play against. Put them next to a Mulebot and spread out 6 Dropbears on 14s in 5 Orders on your first turn. Yeah have fun getting rid of that. The Hacker is also damn good - E/M Grenades and Boarding Shotgun - PanO doesn't really get anything else than a Rifle for Specialists otherwise. Spitfire is nice and all, but I'd rather take a second Drop Bear guy and save the SWC for REMs and Guards. A Rifle is enough to put something in SF or to use as a Counter Assault Piece (they work a lot like Lunokhods if anyone is familiar with Nomads). People often forget that Bolts have tons of utility and try to use them as aggressive MI Link like Wildcats, Baghs or Rodoks. They're pretty much pure utility. Veteran, Bioimmunity, BTS6 and Drop Bears makes them great at shielding much more expensive troops against everything from Warbands to AD troops. Special mention to them not caring much about Jammers, Hacking, E/M or Viral. Bolts also ARO fairly well at close range. The choice of dropping a Dropbear, using a Rifle or a Shotgun in ARO combined with the Hacker providing coverage and an E/M Grenade ARO to the mix. Regular HDs are always useful for buffing NCA's REMs, mostly Bulleteer, Patchfinder, Peacemaker and Sierra. They're limited to a tiny niche you will seldomly find useful, but it's there when you play them according to their strengths.