SgtHulka

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  1. Djanbazan don't land in your deployment zone or just outside it. The better comparison is Ko Dali + Speculo. It's just that 4 Yuan Yuan cost less than a single Speculo and can do a lot more (to be clear I mean can do a lot more in support of Ko Dali, the Speculo is it's own kind of awesome). I ran the Ko Dali-Yuan Yuan combo last fall at a fun mercenary event that never took itself very seriously and was therefore loaded with crazy lists. I saw how effective it was which is why I'm acting a bit like the boy who cried wolf right now. I think you can defend against it but it definitely requires extreme luck or a specific deployment strategy to counter. There are also probably other super cheesy effective combos with Soldiers of Fortune, I just don't know about them yet. I'd forgotten about the Kempetei that's a great idea and they're mercenaries too iirc so all factions can take them. And sixteen points for a boarding shotgun that's a pretty good defensive piece. But I still really do like CSU's with boarding shotguns guarding the corners...trouble is I think they're only AVA 1 except for ISS. The five man kuang shi link is a decent speed bump too. Even though they're vulnerable to the Yuan Yuan's shock CCW's, that's eating orders, and the fact that they go dogged means Ko Dali doesn't have anything left over to eat. I'd just make sure I'm not using those guys to power my main order group since I'd expect them all to die. But in general I do think that a more elite list that can castle up behind a powerful HI link is probably the most effective defensive. Even with smoke support Ko Dali is going to have difficulty straight up killing two BS 16 haramaki armed with blitzen and contenders and pistols or two WIP 16 Wu Ming armed with boarding shotguns and flash pulses, especially they are set up in such a way that they can drop prone into full cover once they take a wound. She only has seven orders after she drops (assuming you correctly guessed which order group she's in and took two orders away from it) and she's going to use one to go into suppressive fire at the end of her turn, so I think an HI link has a decent chance of holding against her for six orders. The key will be how many people she's eaten/wounds she's added at the end of her turn when she goes into suppression. If she's at 3 wounds she's gonna take a ton of orders to dislodge. That's the potential risk of using things like CSU's and Kempetei...they can slow her down and prevent her from killing too many of your orders, but they also provide a softer target that she can wound and then eat. On the other hand, even as I write this I realize that a properly built ko dali list will also have an E-Drone and Bit and Kiss in the non-Ko Dali order group. That means an HI link could be pretty easily broken with a pitcher plus exile, leaving it super-vulnerable to ko dali. Still, that group won't have many orders in it, so the CA player will have to get pretty lucky landing the pitcher and beating your link's re-sets with exile.
  2. I think Yu Jing is going to have to prepare for how to survive a first turn alpha in the soldiers of fortune format, so that's where I'd start. Ko Dalin and Yuan Yuan and Konstantinos and Yuan Yuan means your entire deployment zone is going to be vulnerable to "Ko Dali/Konstantions don't use stealth and move within 8" of your (pick favorite unit) how do you react? Ko Dali/Konstantinos are in smoke you can't see them so all you can do is change facing." "Okay in that case I guess I change facing." "Okay Ko Dali/Konstantinos use their next order to fire at you with their assault pistol(s)." All those Kuang Shi guarding your flanks with chain rifles are pretty much useless in that scenario. Instead you need guard pieces with Sixth Sense. I think the CSU with nanopulser (either combi or boarding shotgun) is a good choice for this, since they can take the traditional roll of the kuang shi but with sixth sense 1 they can delay their aro and avoid the cheesy "you must take a change facing aro" smoke trick. Zhanying are the only other figures we have with sixth sense, so they'll be worthwhile. And then their are Bao and Hsien and Rui Shi who can see through smoke. In the sectorials you can use link teams to get sixth sense, but you have to make sure you're able to guard your non-sixth sense figures from getting assassinated while your opponent ignores the link(s). Once you're confident you can deal with a visor/yuan yuan alpha, only then would I start thinking about adding mercenaries.
  3. I'd like to see the campaign take place on any planet OTHER than Paradiso. Paradiso is the most boring planet in the entire Infinity Universe, and unfortunately we've been stuck fighting in awful jungle terrain since 2012.
  4. Nope, she's the only one seeing the truth. It's the human sphere who have been brainwashed since childhood to believe in the myths of god and freedom. Bakunin are just copy cots. Bwahahaa! (that's me laughing at KHD Scylla). Suck it, Aleph!
  5. It's actually pretty difficult to take two supply boxes *and* run them both back to your deployment zone on turn 1, especially at only 200 points (where most players won't have 20 orders with an infiltrating specialist in each group). That means if you go second you just need a hard-hitting short-range killer to take out the infiltrators with the supply box and grab it back...which you have in the Oda Haris. If you go first your single hawwa should be plenty because you won't have enough orders to grab two boxes and bring them both all the way back to your deployment zone anyway. Getting one should be enough to keep the game close. You are lacking pieces to overwatch the boxes, though. If you could find a way to squeeze out another 2 points you could make your ghulam forward observors. Since the supply boxes are all within 24" of the deployment zone, that puts your WIP 17 burst 2 flash pulses at good range, giving you an extremely good chance of shutting down any first turn attempts to take supply boxes, and forcing your opponent to waste orders dealing with your ghulam before going for the boxes. I would probably downgrade the Djan to a sniper, or maybe even a shock marksman rifle to get the points. Then I'd hold him in reserve to counter-deploy against wherever I suspected my opponent was going to try and throw smoke on a supply box. I'd use him as a sacrificial lamb turn 1 in order to prevent my opponent from using smoke and infiltrators to get a supply box back to their deployment zone.
  6. To elaborate on what Sedral said, ideally you want to move your kuang shi within chain rifle range of the infiltrating camo tokens (smoke can help with that). Spend an order to have them come in line of fire of the camo token. If the camo token doesn't react, discover (at +3 for being within 8"). If the discover attempt fails on the next order simply declare an intuitive shot with the chain rifle. Chances are the camo token will come out of hiding and shoot or lay a mine. Either way, it's now discovered so the kuang shi has done its job. Against ODD threats like bulleteers and myrmidon the safest process is to lay smoke on top of the myrmidon or close to it. Then move the kuang shi into the smoke within chain rifle range. Then declare intuitive shot through the smoke. They can shoot back, making it a face to face roll, but you're hitting on a straight 13 and they're hitting at -6 to their BS for shooting through smoke. Usually you don't have enough orders to play it safe, though, and just charging with your kuang shi is a valid tactic, relying on dogged to keep them alive until they're in chain rifle range. Bulleteers are especially vulnerable to kuang shi since they can dodge and only get one shot back, guaranteeing the kuang shi's ability to go to dogged (unless they're on suppressive fire). Against a full link team with a moira sniper, you're stuffed. You really just have to use smoke to get to a point where you can direct template them and hope that at least one or two fail their dodge. Because a burst 2 double action ARO at BS 15 with ODD will have better odds of wounding you than anything you can throw at it. If you had a Rui Shi or Hsien HMG things would different, but like I mentioned in my earlier post, you can't have everything you want. In the lists that you're considering, linked Moiras just happen to be a bad match up for you (but they're pretty rare). Le Muet and linked Phoenix are *almost* as bad for you, but not quite. Thankfully, only one unit in the game has both camo and MSV2, so if worst comes to worst you can always use smoke to get within chain rifle or light flamethrower range of these guys, even though it will likely cost your entire order pool to do so.
  7. I'm personally not a big fan of the Crane pain train, so I probably wouldn't run a version of list 2 at all. That said, I know a lot of people love it, so others can give you better advice on that one. I think the fundamental combination of Su Jian and Wu Ming pain train in list 2 is pretty interesting. So if I were to run that, I'd probably try something like: Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 110 2 SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) WÚ MÍNG Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33) WÚ MÍNG (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) WÚ MÍNG (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) ZHÀNYING Hacker (Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 32) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) GROUP 21 1 CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 19) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I lose quite a bit of your first turn Alpha Strike in my revised version. What was great about your list is you had that Burst 5 BS 16 Wu Ming HMG to clear out long-range ARO threats in group 2, and then you still had a full 8 orders (for the cost of one command token on the WarCor) to demolish your opponent's Deployment Zone with the Su Jian. in my list, the Wu Ming and the Su Jian are sharing the same order pool, so that's a definite negative. I've also "downgraded" the HMG to a HRL. The HRL is better in ARO, cheaper, and hits almost as hard in the active turn (but admittedly not quite as hard...the lack of burst makes it more likely your Wu Ming will take a lucky ARO wound, but the fire ammo and the template make it more likely your Wu Ming will incapacitate his target). I lose your Ninja. That Ninja is awesome, but it's mostly a pure button pusher, and in your list he's nothing but a button pusher because you've only got two specialists and you'd never risk him in combat. I miss him, but I can never have everything I want. So the biggest thing I've added, and the biggest culprit for all the things I've lost, is the Sophotect and Yudbot. It may not seem worth it just for a single specialist, but really she's there to give me ARO opportunities. Additionally, I've transformed your panzerfaust Wu Ming into a second forward observer Wu Ming, and I've transformed your sensor Zahnying into a Zahnying hacker. Here's what I mean about the Sophotect. Take a typical red veil or ice storm style building. Put the Wu Ming rocket launcher on the roof, touching the wall. Place the sophotect prone in a corner behind him, far enough away so a template hitting the Wu Ming won't hit her. She's still within a single crawl of the Wu Ming. So that gives me more confidence to leave that Wu Ming out in ARO. Let's say he gets hammered by a linked Heavy Machinegun at BS 15 or 16 and burst 5. Chances are he won't win that confrontation. But chances are he won't lose three wounds, either. If he takes one wound, have him fail his guts check and drop prone out of sight behind the wall. That's wonderful. I've forced my opponent to waste one precious order and I haven't even lost an order. If I get unlucky and he takes two wounds he falls behind the wall unconscious. He's out of line of sight. Less wonderful, but I've still wasted that order and my Sophotect can crawl up and heal him at the beginning of the next turn, I can spend a command token to re-form the link, and he can stand up and start punishing people with a Burst 3 BS 16 rocket launcher. Now, place the Su Jian prone in combat mode behind the corner of a building close to the edge of your DZ, poking out enough so he has a good field of fire. Place the Yudbot behind the same building far enough away so it doesn't get hit if a template hits the Su Jian. Now if the Su Jian gets hit by that same BS 15 or 16 burst 5 HMG, he can fire off a desperate panzerfaust in ARO. He's not going to win that face to face, probably, but at Armor 8 in cover he's also not going take all 4 of his wounds to go straight to dead. Even if he takes 3 wounds, dropping to double unconsciousness, I can declare him NWI and have him fail his guts check, dropping fully behind the building. Yay, once again I've wasted an important order. And at the beginning of my next turn my Yudbot can heal the Su Jian all the way up to full wounds for the cost of two orders (the same two orders I would have been docked with a command token if I went first) before sending him on a rambo attack run in my active turn. Now, place the Wu Ming forward observers behind cover with fields of fire that only reach to 24". Since I have two of them, I'm not as worried about leaving them out in ARO. A burst 2 flash pulse at WIP 13 (16 if the rocket launcher Wu Ming survived and dropped prone) can ruin an attack run. And remember that all the Wu Ming have Sixth Sense level 2, so they can attack back through smoke. The Su Jian should dodge if attacked through smoke. And, finally, I have a bounty hunter sniper. Who knows, maybe I'll get a great roll and end up with mimetism or ODD. In any case, I park him in whatever sniper tower is in my DZ, as far back as possible. If I don't get a good booty roll he'll probably die pretty quickly, but whatevs, he's an irregular order in my second group he's only there to suck orders. I've got two Kuang Shi so I can still deploy them on my flanks to chain rifle anything coming around a corner. So lets say your list goes up against mine and you go first. You win initiative and go first. Happy days for you! But I see that Su Jian and I'm definitely docking that order pool and dropping you to eight. Now you've got seven/eight orders. You start with your HMG Wu Ming. You take out my sniper rifle. You're down to 6 orders. You re-position. You're down to 5 orders. You attack my Wu Ming rocket launcher. Your down to 4 orders. Let's say you succeed on knocking me down. You re-position. You're down to 3 orders. Now you shoot my Su Jian. Your down to 2 orders. With two orders left there's nothing more you can do with that pool. Maybe you move out your Ninja and grab an objective, but I wouldn't advise it -- that leaves your ninja vulnerable and I can just re-take most objectives later in the game. And if your dice aren't on fire, every time you attack, I have a chance of actually getting lucky and winning the face to face roll or critting. Against my bounty hunter maybe that's no big deal, one wound. But it you're down to one wound maybe you'll get nervous attacking my rocket launcher or su jian, both of whom can kill you in one shot. Also most of these shots give you a big advantage in the active turn, but it's quite likely you'll fail to do anything -- either we'll both miss or I'll make my armor saves (especially the Wu Ming and Su Jian) so that it'll probably take you quite a few more than 5 orders to clear out all those long-range ARO's. It's quite likely one will remain standing. And if that happens it's a problem for your Su Jian. You've got a spitfire, optimal range out to 24". I could pin you down with my 32" ARO's. If my Su Jian is the one left standing, then we can have a panzerfaust war -- but we're literally at even odds which is good for me and bad for you (because you're spending an order, I'm not). But lets say everything goes swimmingly. You've spent your 7 order pool and now you move out with the Su Jian. It's going to take you at least a couple of orders to get into line of sight of my Wu Ming forward observers. Now you're hitting them at Burst 4 BS 14 and I'm hitting you at Burst 2 WIP 16. Odds are in your favor, but not as much as you'd like. And if I hit you I have a chance of knocking you out straight up with a stun. But let's say you knock me down. You won't have to re-position to get the second one because they're linked so they'll be close to each other. But there's another order. Now you're down to 4 and there are no more pieces out in ARO. Now if you want to kill something you have to come into my deployment zone. It'll probably take you another two to get there, and you'll be eating a chain rifle. That leaves you 1 order in my deployment zone to kill something. So at the end of your devestating turn 1 attack run, you've killed my Bounty Hunter and one Kuang Shi. You've knocked one wound off of three of my four Wu Ming, but they're all still conscious and providing orders. You've taken one wound off of my Su Jian, maybe you've even knocked it into NWI with your last attack. Or maybe you killed my Yudbot, but again it isn't providing me an order. You haven't killed my lieutenant because he's protected in the perimeter of the Wu Ming link and if you get close you'll get hacked. Now at the beginning of my turn I spend a command token to transfer my lieutenant to my wu ming group and now I'm back up to 10 orders. Maybe you get a little bit luckier than or maybe I get a little bit luckier than that; it's all theoretical. But imagine your list taking the first turn against your list. You will lose A LOT more orders, and a savvy opponent will make sure he kills orders from BOTH your groups so that you have two weak order pools instead of one strong one. None the less, you'll probably have the same number of orders I have -- 10 or maybe even a little bit more just because you start with so many. But divided into two groups means you'll have to be ultra-efficient with those orders. That's what I meant when I said you'd have to play turns 2 and 3 with a really deft hand. One list isn't better than the other. It's just different strokes for different folks.
  8. Do you want criticism? Advise? Criticism: Both of those lists are going to come out swinging hard, but they are going to require a very deft hand on turns 2 and 3. No doctor, no engineer, and big order pools filled with weak troops fueling rambo pieces means you might find yourself order starved after turn 1. You can definitely succeed with careful use of command tokens and hammering your opponent's orders, too, but there are some holes in your defense that a savvy opponent will be able to exploit. For example, two coordinated orders will empty your panzerfaust, meaning you'll have to be very savvy about how you set up your ARO's on turn 1 to prevent a boarding shotgun or two from cutting down loads of kuang shi. With no fairy dust, a couple of mid-line camo tokens could shut down your Su Jian or Rui Shi first strikes with a carbonite or oblivion AROs. Advice: I guess don't ARO much. The problem with list 2 is that your Chaiyi and Su Jian are your only ARO pieces, but you definitely don't want to use your Su Jian in ARO since you have no engineer and you want all his wounds for the active turn. You FOR SURE don't want to use your Crane in ARO, because he's your lieutenant. Place your Kuang Shi in such a way that anyone trying to round a corner into your DZ get chain rifled (but that's going to make them vulnerable when they run impetuously out into the open on your active turn). Place Xi Zhuang's mad traps so that anyone trying to get at your link team will get madtrapped, but also set them far enough apart from each other so they won't both activate against the same target. For list 1, again, don't use your Su Jian to ARO. Use the panzerfaust Wu Ming and then dodge when you empty it. Once you take a wound drop prone behind cover. I would normally use your FO in ARO in the same way, too, with his flash pulse, but you've only got two specialists. You don't want to leave your HMG in ARO because you want all his wounds in the active turn just like the Su Jian. So that basically just leaves covering your corners with Kuang Shi like I advise for list 2 but you might lose them when they run impetuously into a sniper or template weapon. Both lists basically concede board control in exchange for active-turn killing. Smoke and lots of orders can make up for a lot of deficiencies, letting you get into the good range bands of boarding shotguns, so even if all your "awesome" pieces get hammered you can still wreck face with CSU's and Celestial Guards and light shotgun Wu Ming. That makes both lists viable. I probably wouldn't run these lists, but I also wouldn't want to see them across the table from me...they are both strong enough to give me real trouble...especially if you go first.
  9. I think the assumption is that the ghulam will be taken as forward observer x2 and doctor plus, and that the Fiday will be taken as DA CCW, putting the total cost at 299. But there are lots of ways change up the list depending on how much you're willing to abandon WYSIWYG. For example, if you use the new Soldier of Fortune format, you can add the Yuan Yuan exclusive figure as a chain rifle/DA CCW to what you have above and now you've got 11 figures and 299 points and 5 SWC. Alternatively, the Fiday can be mixed and matched to any of the Fiday profiles because he's only armed with a pistol and knife, giving you plus or minus 1 or 2 points. Then the Khawarij is really ripe for choosing alternative profiles...either the excellent fatality spitfire option for +5/+1.5swc or the doctor option for +3. It might be useful having a super-jumping doctor to heal up Tarik when he goes down, for example. You might want to run the Tuareg as a hacker instead of a sniper rifle, which will cost you an extra 2 points, or as a doctor which will save you 0.5 swc. Finally, if you run the Zhayedan as a doctor plus instead of the breaker rifle (-4 points), and the Fiday as a boarding shotgun (-1 point), that leaves you enough points to use the exclusive Yuan Yuan as a boarding shotgun Bashi Bazouk (+15 points). So the short answer is that CB assumes you'll be using specialist options on the Ghulam and a more expensive Fiday, but the long answer is that you actually have a lot of flexibility due to the fact that you have that ten-point cushion and a couple of exclusive "extra" models to use.
  10. The one thing I would caution about MSV 2 or 3 (not 1) is that it's a nightmare if enemy deployment zone smoke is available. The trick where you can move within 8" and force the opponent to change facing as an ARO and then just light them up through the smoke as your second skill is pretty hard to defend against. I ran Yuan Yuan plus Ko Dali at the Merc draft at Rumble and it was pretty stupid. That was just for kicks and giggles, so no big deal, my opponent had a really stupid list too (Cody) so we just had fun with it, but in a "serious" game...well...I'm already concerned about Soldiers of Fortune for exactly this combo. If anyone were to get it after Ko Dali, I do think Sval is a good candidate. It looks like Sval will have smoke, but only on expensive units (so far Saito). That actually would be very similar to Combined Army, where you can take Ko Dali plus a Speculo Killer, but the two together are so expensive (in an expensive faction) that it doesn't really break the game. I definitely wouldn't want Nomads, Haqq or Yu Jing with MSV2+ AD.
  11. Seems like a partial update is up. Alive crew is gone, Scarface is gone, Cube Jager is added. No Kiss for Combined Army, though, and Mercenaries still work like they used to.
  12. I thought the new Red Veil-light starter was going to be the default IA starter, a la the Combined Army actually being the Onyx starter, and the Red Veil-light Haqqislam actually being whatever that high tech Haqq sectorial is called.
  13. "My Morat Barbarian wields a greataxe so I get to roll a d-12!" -- The great Pneumarch of the Ur Hegemony playing Dungeons & Dragons.
  14. The Noctifer Spitfire attack run is pretty fun. Deploy it in such a way that you know you can get into cover with an 8" move (hidden deployment can help with this but it isn't essential). Start spending orders on it leap-frogging (see what I did there?) from total cover to total cover. If he's discovered, since you end your move in total cover you can just re-camo. Once you're within 24", if he declares discover you get free shots. Once you're comfortably within 24" of linked missile launchers, or 16" of linked sniper rifles or rockets or HMG's, attack to enjoy your 9 point difference in BS. (-9 to him for zero range, cover and TO camo). Don't get too close because he'll pistol you. Once you take out the SWC weapons you can back up and take out the combi rifles at even better odds beyond 16". It's kind of like the Makaul triad advancing under eclipse smoke. There's nothing your opponent can really do about it other than hope you run out of orders before doing too much damage. EDIT: With the new rules, you can combine the noctifer attack run with the shrouded defensive perimeter really easily. You used to have to choose one or the other if you went first. But now you can coordinate to drop 4 mines, coordinate to re-camo, and then still have 8 orders to pick apart your opponent's order pool with the noctifer. Six orders was never quite enough for the noctifer to fully do damage. You could say the same thing about the Makaul triad, which I'm now deeply worried about. EDIT 2: The other nice thing about the Noctifer for an attack run like this is he drops dead, not unconscious, so he doesn't leave behind an easy target for data scan or extreme prejudice.
  15. You pretty much nailed yojimbo. He will absolutely punish opponents who like to hide all their troops on turn one and offer no ARO's; he can get across the board in very few orders and then just rip through a deployment zone with close combat. He used to be even better because even if he died he would leave two crazy koalas in your opponent's DZ. Now you have to spend an order to do that. Another yojimbo trick is to mine the entire table with crazy koalas, re-loading him again and again with a minesweeper bot. He's also my designated hacker-assassin, since I like to run HI-samurai heavy lists in JSA. EDIT: one of my favorite games I ever played was 2 v 2 in N2. I had Yojimbo; my opponent's team had Wallace, and we both decided we were gonna duel. We were yelling Yo-Jim-bo versus our opponents yelling Wall-ace wall-ace! It was epic and I don't remember who won (which probably means Wallace won lol) and Yojimbo's had a special place in my heart ever since.