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  1. Some of you may have perceived the various Morat discussion threads you may have also noticed most of them are locked now I gather some of the Morat players believe Morats need fixing others do not, I am tired of various threads been devolved in personal attacks. This will be the Morats discussion thread other threads will be closed, this thread will be moderated and personal attacks will get functional warning and not a verbal so keep it civil! Whoever posts here must accept that others may have a completely different opinion on both sides of the debate and at the very least agree to disagree. That will be all. Links to the last two threads about this discussion HSN3 Morat experiences, suggested changes and discussion This will be a Poll
  2. Tohaa: Strategy, Tactics, Tips & Tricks Format of this Thread Welcome to the Tohaa guide, which covers all the basic ins and outs of the EI's most determined opponent. This thread is dedicated to Tohaa strategy, tactics, commonly used combo's, model breakdowns, notable opponents and whatever else we'd like to include. The setup for this thread is that new additions are added procedurally, either by linking to specific comments or topics, or by editing the existing texts. I implore you all to add your thoughts, provide alternative observations and whatever else, so that we might build an up-to-date guide to the Tohaa arsenal. I'd be remiss here not to mention and link to Tam's Tohaa Tactica Thread, which is excellent (be sure to read Tamrielo's thoughts on Triad composition), but deals with a more specific range of topics. TO BE CLEAR: this thread is completely open to disagreement, additions and corrections as far as I'm concerned. I'll add, change and link as needed over the course of time, including in response to model releases. Index 1. Specific to the Tohaa 2. Strategies of the Tohaa 3. Tactics of the Tohaa 4. Tohaa Arsenal 5. Getting Started 6. Useful Links 7. Tohaa Battle Reports 1. Specific to the Tohaa The Tohaa are notable in that they're a new faction introduced into the existing Infinity universe, and they come with their own set of special rules which put their definitive marks on the Tohaa play styles. We'll be covering these first. Fireteam: Tohaa Symbiont Armor Nanotech, Swarm & Viral 2. Strategies of the Tohaa This second heading will outline a number of common strategic questions specific to the Tohaa, and provides suggestions on approaches, as well as solutions to some problems that commonly crop up. Strategies are overarching approaches to combat, as distinct from tactics, which are responses to very specific problems. ARO Zero-V Smoke Special Deployment Impetuous Range Bands Indirect Fire List Building Triad Composition Deployment 3. Tactics of the Tohaa This heading goes over a host of tactics the Tohaa can employ to bolster their advantage or deal with enemy tricks and maneuvers. The implementation of tactics will vary greatly from instance to instance, but it helps to know what options are out there to cope with potent threats. Dealing with Smoke Dealing with Fire Dealing with Template Weapons Dealing with Guided Weaponry Dealing with Camouflage & Airborne Deployment Dealing with Hacking Reforming Triads Securing the Field Using the Nullifier Using Flash Pulses 4. Tohaa Arsenal The Tohaa have access to a fairly limited model selection, so currently many lists will feature the same base models. This is unfortunate in that it means that cunning opponents can start anticipating your maneuvers as they get more knowledgeable about our army. Luckily, there is a lot these models can do. Gorgos Squad [TAG] Players are not having a lot of (reported) luck with the Gorgos, even with the Perifericial. Its especially large weakness to fire, but especially its--for a pricey TAG--unimpressive weaponry make it a selection that seems hard to justify when there is such amazing LI and HI among the Tohaa. The Gorgos is strong and tough as any TAG, and it has a Symbiont armor 'pilot' with all the benefits that brings, although it is the only TAG currently known to be affected by i-Kohl. If it becomes possessed, the Periferical is turned as well. Clipsos Infiltrator [sK] The Clipsos is amazing, at this time it is hampered by the lack of other TO options (to disguise the identity of mines), but nonetheless the Clipsos brings an amazing set of tools for a very, very low cost. The Clipsos has reasonable stats and abilities, each of its loadout options is useful and well-costed; any force that brings one or more along for the ride will most likely be happy they did. In objective-based games the Clipsos shines even brighter, bringing a very reliable way to fulfill objectives to the table for a low cost. Makaul [WB] Every other faction is jealous of the Makaul. The description '10100 : A special number whose symbolism refers to titanic strength and courage as well as the concept of salvation from a physical danger.' is right. With great stats and abilities, a low cost and great loadouts, the Makaul is as close as you get to an auto-include in this game. Only the Combi loadout might see limited use with most players. It is very possible to play without Makaul, and certainly players do play without Makaul, but the Zero-V smoke, Heavy Flamethrower, Viral CCW and Swarm Grenades on a Regular Linkable model is just very hard to pass up. Neema Satar [HI] There doesn't seem to be a clear place where Neema fits in the current Tohaa metagame; she's an Ectros with a bunch of extra tricks and a very high WIP. She's an excellent Lieutenant, but usually a very obvious one, and lacking a (non Spec-Op) Chain of Command model makes her a risky Lt, because her weaponry forces her to get relatively close to the action. Luckily, you don't have to reveal your Lt's WIP anymore, slightly mitigating this issue. Her Martial Arts Lv2 makes her more deadly up close, and grants the excellent V: Courage, but her LRL doesn't command the power most players expect from a model in her price bracket. Ectros Regiment [HI] The Ectros is a very powerful piece, bringing very high stats for his points, coupled with the Fireteam: Tohaa rule to boot. It is one of those rare HI that has 4-4 Mov and an effective 3 W. But, this is because it wears Symbiont Armor, meaning there is a slight catch. Current wisdom on the Ectros emphasizes its relatively large weakness to fire, which means there's a generally perceived benefit to keep the Ectros fighting at range, rather than getting close. In general, this means that the Ectros is fielded with the HMG loadout, and the other 3 options are mostly left unused. The HMG is a powerful weapon, well used on a resilient model, keeping it out of range of most fire weapons if and when they show up. A note on the Ectros is that it surprisingly does not have V: Courage, meaning it might not keep its vantage point when under attack. Gao-Tarsos [MI] The Gao-Tarsos does not feel like MI, it feels as though you're dropping HI into enemy lines. Using Combat Jump it can be deployed right in the middle of the enemy, where it's Symbiont Armor will usually allow it to survive at least long enough to rain hot lead down on the defender's heads. The Tarsos is also usually sent down with an HMG due to its cost and function, but can be used in multiple roles; although the Paramedic option will most likely be skipped over. Luckily for the enemy, the Tarsos cannot be part of Triads. While the Tarsos cán be used for grabbing objectives, it is a relatively unreliable piece, prone to scattering away from where you need to be; those are jobs the Clipsos is generally more suited for. Gao-Rael [MI] If you're looking for a specialist, odds are good you're going to look at taking a Gao-Rael. As the slowest of the Linkable Tohaa troops, with a 4-2 Mov, it will usually take the role of hunter; taking a good position, and harassing choice prey that dares show itself. The most obvious selling point of the Gao-Rael is its MSV2, which is an excellent tool to have in your arsenal, as it allows you to ignore Camouflage and most smoke types in the game, allowing the Rael to do its job--taking out enemies that are normally hard to hit--very well. Because the Rael is in Symbiont Armor to boot, it has an extra wound, which, coupled with +B1, makes it very likely to win its first engagement. The Gao-Rael is usually a Sniper, but all of its loadouts are viable, including the once-in-a-while Lt. version when there are no choice targets to glue. Even the Boarding Shotgun loadout is interesting, because it lets the Gao-Rael bring along Swarm Grenades. Swarm Grenades create low-visibility zones, through which the Rael can promptly peek. Sakiel Regiment [LI] The Tohaa have access to some amazing LI, and the Sakiel is arguably the greatest of them all. For a very low cost you get access to a model with great stats and abilities, Symbiont Armor, and a powerful--versatile--loadout selection. Almost any list can benefit from the Sakiel. Sakiel are the most common vehicle for Viral Combi Rifles, and their high speed, Symbiont Armor and V: Courage allow them to deliver their payload effectively. Aside from the Viral Combi loadout, the Spitfire option probably sees the most play. Tohaa players the world over are waiting for a Sakiel Viral blister or box. Nikoul Ambush Unit [LI] The Tohaa are getting a new release in the form of the Nikoul Ambush Unit. Their profile has been released, but it's unclear if they'll change for 3d Edition. This entry will be placeholder until we figure out more about how the Nikoul plays. Kamael Light Infantry [LI] It's unfortunate to be simply 'good' in the company of excellence. The Kamael Infantry are good, reliable and reasonably costed fighters, but they don't get as much appreciation because of how good Sakiel, Chaksa and Makaul (not LI but still) are. That said, they are capable line troopers with good loadouts. It's very viable to bring lists with a lot of linked Kamael, laying down a lot of Combi fire, supported with the gadgets they can bring along. Do nót underestimate them. Kumotail [LI] The Kumotail is quite a package; a Doctor ánd an Engineer rolled into one with an excellent WIP14!? Pretty useful. Its most obvious ability is to recover fighters in Symbiont Armor, but the Kumotail's capabilities are actually far greater. Doctors have a hard time in Infinity, but Engineers can restore E/M'd weaponry, remove glue and immobilization etc. The combination of both rules means that when you're going on missions, odds are good that the Kumotail will nail you some extra objectives. Something to remember though is that if the Kumotail is using Chaksa Servants; activating those will pop the Kumotail out of any Triad it's part of Chaksa Servant [LI] As the name implies, it's here to help. For a rock-bottom cost of 3 points you get to expand the reach of your Kumotail. They're also surprisingly survivable, rocking Mimetism and Hyper-Dynamics L1. In any list where the Kumotail can afford to hide, getting 2 Servants to do the work is probably going to be worth it. Chaksa Auxiliar [LI] There's been quite the upsurge in the Auxiliar's popularity; as a cheap Baggage (not to be underestimated) Order, Heavy Flamer or Sensor support, or as a Total Reaction HMG badass (the GHRL not as much) its starting to gain traction within the Tohaa meta. What the Chaksa does well is fill several roles (fitting, being Auxilia) that support the other troops. The Chaksa is great at controlling the battlefield with an HMG; it's hard to hit due to the overwhelming firepower of a Neurocinetics HMG, and has 360' vision. Covering flanks is what the Chaksa do extremely well, allowing your Triads to move up safely. Auxiliars don't cost a lot of Orders, they have good stats and a reasonable price. The big downside to them is that you can't put them in Links, but honestly, that's not what they're for. There's experimentation going on with 1-4 Chaksa, and in any quantity they seem to bring something to the table. Tohaa Diplomatic Delegate [LI] This is a strange model for Tohaa, especially because the Diplomat's point cost isn't a multiple of 3. It doesn't do much as a civilian, but as a Specialist it's a surprisingly cheap and useful option, if not for the Specialist skills, then for the Flash Pulse which can disable an enemy many times it's own points cost. If you're not filling gaps with Servants, consider a Delegate. Hatail Spec-Op [LI] Spec-Ops are in a class all by themselves, literally. Based on a Kamael, the Hatail can do quite a few things. Three of the most notable uses for the Hatail currently (when you can field one) are its ability to bring a full-fledged Hacking Device, it can be a reliable Specialist, and it can be outfitted with Chain of Command, which is amazing (especially if you're using Neema as Lt). There's a lot you can do with a Hatail, so mix and match away. Fun fact: if the Hatail carries a Hacking Device, it can attempt to possess a Combined Army TAG. Aelis Keesan [LI] We'll have to see what Aelis brings to tables as we get used to her, especially the impact of her option to bring K1 ammunition has caused a slight stir because of Tohaa's relative lack of AP and EXP weaponry. 5. Getting Started In the past months the Tohaa has seen quite the influx of (potential) new Tohaa players. Both new players and veteran players come to this subforum to ask questions about particular models and rules, but especially seek out advice on what models to buy and how to construct their first Tohaa Combat Groups. This heading is dedicated to those players, so there's a convenient place to find the most general of advice and we'll avoid having too many of the same threads coming up, fun as they may be. What to Buy Tohaa doesn't have an enormous selection of models at the time of writing, this makes choosing models easier than for many other factions. Most players seem to buy the Tohaa Starter Set; it's a good selection of models that gives a proper introduction to the faction, and most players will continue using at least half of the models in the Starter set. It is nót necessary to buy more than the Starter Set when first getting into the Tohaa (unless shipping costs are especially high). Tohaa take some getting used to, and starting small is far more conducive to getting a handle on how they play. But eventually most players start branching out and start wondering what they'll buy next. Almost all Tohaa players seem to buy a Makaul box set sooner or later, and most get them much sooner than later. The Makaul box is good value and provides models that end up in many Tohaa lists. After that things become far less clear, and choices vary from person to person. There is no universally agreed-upon 'wrong choice' for Tohaa, the general consensus tends towards emphasising models that fulfill roles you haven't filled yet and filling up your Combat Groups to 10 models. This is why the Gao-Rael is a popular third choice: it offers a tool against Camouflaged models that the Starter Set and Makaul box doesn't have. The only choices most people tend to make relatively late are Neema Satar and the Gorgos; these are models that aren't immediately intuitive in their use and do better once players know their way around the faction. Finally, new players should consider buying the Hatail Spec-Ops relatively early. Even outside of ITS the Hatail is affordable and an excellent proxy model that can fill gaps in your list while you try out new things. That First (Tohaa) List If the first list you make can form two Tridents/Triads and has (close to) 10 models in it you've made a usable list. For Tohaa it's that simple. No matter if you emphasize Kamael, Sakiel, Makaul or whatever else; each list has their own strengths and weaknesses, they're pretty equivalent. Build 80% of your list to preference, then consider your opponent and ask yourself "do I need Defensive Hacking, an Engineer, MSV2, Zero-V Smoke (etc)?" Then tweak the list so you're ready for expected threats. You're going to lose battles no matter what list you bring, just try things out, start small and figure it out from there. Have fun. 6. Useful Links This heading hosts a small index of some links to interesting threads or texts that are especially relevant for Tohaa players, and don't fit into the format of this thread. Feel free to post suggestions. 1. Tohaa Numerology 2. Number to Name Generator 3. In-depth discussion of the Gorgos 4. Infinity Basic Tutorial 5. Adv. Spheretactics 101 6. List Building in Infinity Notable Opponents 1. Caskuda 2. Speculo Killer 3. Avatar 4. Impersonators 7. Tohaa Battle Reports 1. Micky Ward - Tohaa vs Aleph 300Pts 2. Micky Ward - Tohaa vs Yu Jing 300Pts 3. Miniwargaming - Tohaa vs PanOceania 300Pts *Google Drive Hard Link for this Document*
  3. Hello. N3 is finally updated, so we can play our beloved ASA. What's your thoughts about changes that new rules bring to us? Here's short list what I'm thinking about it: Infantry Regulars - They can form amazing fireteam, all special weapon options is doing even better, MULTI Sniper is brutal with new weapon ranges, at last, Spitfire isn't worse HMG, Grenade launcher is a bit better without shadow zones also Paramedic option is cheaper. Sensor guy with Minelayer is even better. BUT! Their hacker, our only source od non-Assault HD cost 1 SWC again. So it's really hard to fit this guy in list. And FO for 0,5 SWC... In my opinion, Regulars are better but specialist options are still a too expensive in SWC Akalis - Guys are still awesome, normal options are even cheaper than before. They got Spitfire instead of HMG (not a big deal). Akali Hacker got huge point drop to 28 pts. They're just great. Unfortunately, dispersion rule is a bit cruel now, so you should consider giving them support from Hackers or Evo repeaters (or just enter battlefield by AD2) Bagh-Mari - Wow, this guys got some serious buff. Firstly, their light shotguns aren't point waste anymore, MSV1 is much better, as it now affect ODD and TO camo. They're also a bit cheaper In N2 they were a bit too weak for me, but now, I'll consider adding this guys to my lists (especially Sniper with minelayer for whooping 28 points) Guarda de Assalto - Unfortunately, this guys don't have speed advantage, as even much heavier HI can move 4-4. But still, godly stats and our only source of smoke grenades make this guy good pick. Multi rifle profile is a bit cheaper (and rifles is much better in this edition) and don't cost SWC anymore. Spitfire is a little bit more expensive GdA is as good as always, it's hard to say anything more about him. Knights of Montesa - Let's make it clear, this guys cost a lot (at least for N3) and have rather lame stats in compare to GdA. But they also move 4-4 in this edition and can be deployed in the middle of game table, which make them amazing support unit for our Peacemakers and Nagas. Give them a try. Nagas - Our favourite Aleph units. They were good, they are good. Monomines aren't as good as they used to be (but still dangerous), MULTI Sniper is more viable, hacker is good in missions, though a bit more focused on one type of hacking (AHD). Trauma Docs - We don't have any other Doctor. In plus, we can now reroll, so his lame wip isn't as bad as it used to be Machinist - Nothing really interesting, our only engineer REMs Pathfinder - Man, this guy is amazing. Specialist, cheaper than his N2 version and he got some amazing special rules, he discover hidden oponents better than before, he is quite effective at shooting distant and hidden oponents, thanks to triangulated fire ("I hit you on -12? I think it's only -3"). He also mark and discover camo markers at the same time... our best REM Sierra - Nothing new here, HMG with total reaction and 360V. A bit cheaper, but without repeater or mines. HMG isn;t as good as it used to be. I used it in N2 to deny eneny AD drop zones. Now, it's a bit too costly in SWC for me. But if you have some spare SWC, it's still worth considering Clipper - He's much chaper (16 points!) but SWC is higher by 0,5. IMO, Acontecimento doesn't have access to good FO except one pathfinder. Also, our hackers isn't too good. This bot isn't for us Fugazi - We aren't hacking faction, so we don't need tons of repeaters. In most cases, this bot is cheap order, and nothing more Bulleteer & Peacemaker - This bots is as good as it used to be. Nothing to say here. Maybe one thing: Heavy Shotgun option is better that it used to be, they're also much cheaper. Mulebots - Still, good source of cheap orders with baggage, poor man's version of Sierra or EVO, which don't need hackers to be useful (bonus for our Pathfinder and Akalis). Palbots - Nihil novi sub sole TAGs Dragoes - My beloved TAG escaped banhammer and is as good as always. SWC goes up, but he retain his Flamer. HMC have different range bonuses, but it's still deadly. He's a bit better in ARO, as he can use DA ammo. Tikbalang - A bit cheaper, but still outclassed by Toni. They still have their HMG and Heavy Flamer. Take only if you want two TAGs list or you absolutely don't have points for Toni Characters Kirpal Singh - Chain of command is really expensive in N3. Only 1 point drop on costly single wound model. Loss of Lt isn't as painful as it used to be in N2... I would consider him only if you've got agressive Lt like Toni Stephen Rao - He's just Bagh-Mari with better WiP. Very good Lt option, and only way to make 5 man Bagh-Mari link. Toni Macayana - She's the same, amazing underpriced TAG. HMG is a bit weaker (but TAG mobility help keep oponents at optimal range) AP mines is easier to dodge. But she still has Heavy Flamer, Climbing plus and Multiterrain. He's also cheaper, so she's even more underprinced tha before! Generally, ASA in N3 is the same army as ASA in N2. We still have rather poor access to Forward Observers and Hackers (lack of BTS). But rest of our army is even better, thanks to better weapon ranges and massive price drops. But really, Regular FO for 0,5 SWC?
  4. When I was starting out, I didn't know all that much about the capabilities of the other factions, and thus had an incredibly unpleasant surprise when I first encountered a Fiday, and a Dog-Warrior, and an Anathematic...you get the idea. So I've been thinking; what are the units that best take advantage of the disadvantages of the Nomads? What should we look out for, and what should we shoot first?
  5. Last weekend I did a few games with a buddy. We both tried to use some models, we don't use often. This left only 3 unit types for me: - Hellcats (I prefer Tomcats) - Spektrs (I prefer Zeros) aaaaaaand: Securitate. This made me think about a possible Securitate relaunch, when we finally get our Tunguska sectorial. Let's be honest, as cool as Secs are, they somehow lack skill compared to their cost in points. If we compare Sec to, say, Morans for their Repeater skill: The Morans come with Infiltration, Mimetism and Koalas If we compare Secs with, say, Odaliques, for their SS2: The Haqq girlies come with i-Kohl3, NWI and a DTW Of course, just comparing units on a 1-on-1 base is quite... inadequately as there always is a context called 'army list'. but still, I have this feeling for Securitate needing some fix. Their SS2 might become quite obsolete as they'll porbably be linkable anyways. And for the regular cheerleader-typed link they are just too expensive. Even Wildcats are cheaper. Hell, even the loved-by-all Zeros are way cheaper than the Secs. So, what are your ideas about the Securitate and what would your tuning be. Here's mine: - cost decrease of 2-4 points - BTS-3 for getting a decent linkable Hacker - 2 or 3 specialist options with for example MSV, Blitzen or CoC
  6. One thing I like about Infinity is that each of it's factions is multifaceted. Depending on perspective, you can argue that any faction's objectives are justified or unjustified and the arguments will probably hold water. For example, Pan-O (with a degree of justification) holds itself as a shining paragon of humanity. It's high-tech, it's people enjoy some of the best social benefits in the Human Sphere, so on and so forth. However, it's not without it's skeletons (the entire operational purview of the Hexadron springs to mind, but I'm sure plenty of other points will be raised as well). There's a reason most of the other factions see them as snobby hypocrites after all. Each of the factions is like this though. There are no good guys or bad guys in Infinity. Just guys doing their thing (although some, e.g. the E.I. and depending on your opinion ALEPH, are somewhat more self-centred then others). The factions, like real-world nations have their quirks and peccadillos, their merits and flaws. It's a hell of a lot more fun and interesting then X are the good guys and Y are the bad, which is a trope that I've seen played to death in games, movies, books and gods' know what else.