ChoKonnit

W Tee Eff? 0_O

7,902 posts in this topic

More power to 'em, says I. But then again, I'd also be in support of an independent Kurdistan, so maybe I'm just crazy that way.

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without going into politics, there are quite a lot of "seceding territories".

many territories were in open war for years due to seceding, then decided to accept to remain in the state during '50-60.

they seem to have had 10-15 year of "ok, we're good with the rest of the state".

Then in the last years, they decided to secede again.

 

Why is this?  The states aren't doing enough? Are just thinking about tax money?

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A rare, if not first WTF from me.

I joined a Faceache group for motorcyclists in my town. Whilst it has many members, it's mostly the same 20 or so people measuring their penis using a motorcycle and how far over they can corner etc.

For once, however, they posted something interesting the other day. The local police force has actually been asking motorcyclists in the area if they'd like to become a part time speed camera operator. There has been a long discussion of how this could be used to their advantage, but mostly just mildly inventive ways of how to destroy the equipment.

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7 hours ago, Darkvortex87 said:

Why is this?  The states aren't doing enough? Are just thinking about tax money?

It's a lot of variations on a theme, most of which boil down to "follow the money."

At some level, politics is all about resource allocation. In the abstract, everyone wins because they get something equally important for what they give up. Example - sure, rich people pay more in taxes, but benefit from a stable society that keeps the (more numerous) poor people from killing them and taking their stuff. But realistically there are winners and losers across a wide variety of issues. Worse, the perception of win or loss is often more important than the actual impact itself (i.e. rich people see the tax they're paying, but don't stop to think about the stable society which ensures their continued wealth).

When this same calculus is applied to nation-states, you get some strange interactions. Barcelona is the center of Spain's financial sector - and is actually poised to grow post-Brexit. On the whole, Catalonia is in much better financial shape than the rest of Spain, with much lower unemployment and arguably less graft and corruption. There is a feeling that the Madrid government is guilty of horrendous mismanagement of the money that Catalans are pouring in via their taxes, and they're sick of it. FWIW, this same tension is kind of how Germans feel within the EU and pretty much everyone feels in the US. The idea that "other people" are somehow "holding you back" or "dragging you down" is a time-honored shill for people wanting to gain political power.

But that's not to say that there aren't legitimate concerns/issues. Scotland, for instance, benefitted strongly from EU membership. Now, with Brexit looming, suddenly voting to remain part of the UK puts them in an undeniably worse financial position than they'd have been in had Britain opted to remain in the EU. The question is whether the "intangibles" of being part of the UK outweigh the direct, tangible benefit that EU membership offered. And if you break apart that "tangible benefit," much of it had to do with what amount to EU subsidies and wider market access for Scottish goods, which only really works if the EU itself is on a strong, stable financial footing. Given the unrest in Germany of late, maybe that's not a long term solution.

Here in the US, republicans are quick and vocal in their attacks on any kind of "handout," decrying anyone on any kind of government assistance as a shiftless, lazy sack of shit. But if you look at state-by-state contributions to the federal coffers (by way of taxes) versus federal expenditures in those states (by way of programs and subsidies), states that tilt strongly Republican are overwhelmingly more likely to receive more federal money than they actually give. Because this money takes the form of farming and ranching subsidies, Medicaid/Social Security payments, or infrastructure money and not "welfare," it's not seen as a hand-out. But the dirty secret is that there are probably more rural folks on government assistance than urban poor in the same boat, so the perception is one of "my taxes are going to pay for lazy minorities to buy crack and heroin in their filthy, crime-riddled cities!" as opposed to what's actually more likely: "my taxes are going to pay for lazy hayseeds to buy meth and opioids in their squalid, backwoods trailers!"

Both of which miss the real issue: "my taxes are going to subsidize massive, industrial farming and oil corporations to post record profits and pay huge bonuses to a handful of dudes in their shiny boardrooms." The fact that we still subsidize our oil and gas industry in this country is shameful, and farm subsidies benefit large, corporate operations far more than they do small, independent farmers and ranchers.

Bringing this back to the idea of local independence, I suspect that if the American south decided that they wanted to secede again, this time we'd be only too happy to let them go without a fight. From a purely financial point of view, it would be in our best interests.

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On 21/09/2017 at 7:22 AM, Gamma Ray said:

A rare, if not first WTF from me.

I joined a Faceache group for motorcyclists in my town. Whilst it has many members, it's mostly the same 20 or so people measuring their penis using a motorcycle and how far over they can corner etc.

For once, however, they posted something interesting the other day. The local police force has actually been asking motorcyclists in the area if they'd like to become a part time speed camera operator. There has been a long discussion of how this could be used to their advantage, but mostly just mildly inventive ways of how to destroy the equipment.

Fill them with expanding foam or else put a tow rope around them and pull them down.

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My entire work place has lost the net, i'm spinning around in my office chair

send help

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41 minutes ago, Flipswitch said:

My entire work place has lost the net, i'm spinning around in my office chair

send help

Take a cat, sit it in the chair

spin it around

let the cat go and watch as it tries to keep balance

it won't help but it's funny

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See, that's why my workplace has a (semi)official cat.

...we had an official one, but the venerable feline passed away a few years ago...

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On 9/20/2017 at 9:54 PM, A Mão Esquerda said:

The issues include getting out of Spain and then into the EU...  after all, if the Catalans can do it, why no the Walloons or the Scots or any of the other nationalities that want to split away?

Sure, those are also ugly issues, but manageable if the EU isn't stupid about the fixed exchange rate the joining government needs to maintain.  3/4 the reason the UK didn't join the Euro is because the fixed exchange rate from the GBP to the Euro was killing the UK's economy!

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9 hours ago, Flipswitch said:

where the hell am i going to find a cat

Unfortunately, the joke that comes to mind doesn't translate.:S

Spoiler

In Polish a "cat" is also slang for a recruit that gets hazed or gets shitty duties from the "elders".

 

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3 hours ago, Pierzasty said:

Unfortunately, the joke that comes to mind doesn't translate.:S

  Hide contents

In Polish a "cat" is also slang for a recruit that gets hazed or gets shitty duties from the "elders".

 

Ah, on the sub we called those "N.U.B.s" as in, "Non-Useful Body" since they couldn't stand watch or anything.  Of course, the Navy was not fond of that term, saying it was discriminatory.  Damn straight it was discriminatory, it is INTENDED to prod the nubs into getting qualified at least one watch so they start pulling their weight.

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It was NIG here for New in Green but I think we can all appreciate why it fell out of use... 

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13 hours ago, Pierzasty said:

Unfortunately, the joke that comes to mind doesn't translate.:S

  Reveal hidden contents

In Polish a "cat" is also slang for a recruit that gets hazed or gets shitty duties from the "elders".

 

 

10 hours ago, Section 9 said:

Ah, on the sub we called those "N.U.B.s" as in, "Non-Useful Body" since they couldn't stand watch or anything.  Of course, the Navy was not fond of that term, saying it was discriminatory.  Damn straight it was discriminatory, it is INTENDED to prod the nubs into getting qualified at least one watch so they start pulling their weight.

Ah. Well, we chefs just call them first years. (As in first year apprentice.)

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On 21.9.2017 at 4:29 PM, Munin said:

Given the unrest in Germany of late, maybe that's not a long term solution.

Did i miss something here or are you thinking about this:

?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vectorfree.com%2Fmed

 

If you are talking about the G20 meeting in Hamburg, that was something that could have happened in every other big city and if you follow the news about it they catched some of the guys and brought them to court and they have been mostly non germans. It was a tactical decission of our Mommy Merkel to damage a growing political rival, the major of Hamburg, in her own party to do the G20 meeting in Hamburg in hope there would be alot of false decissions on his side. 

Dont let you fool from Angela Merkel, he killed all political rivals on her way to become the party leader and thus candidate for chancellor. She learned alot of that from her mentor Helmut Kohl.

Yes there are mor big protests and demonstrations but they are mostly peacefull. I Its just most dont think of germans as protesters cause it was not so common like in other countries so its more:

"If the germans are unhappy and going to the streets world is coming to an end, we are all gonna die!" 

 

@Section 9

What economy could fixed exchange rates damaged in the UK. Even before the Euro there wasnt much except banks and if they want to do business in the rest of Europe they still have to show everything in both currencys. Most economy had already been killed by Thatcher.

The UK didnt join, because they have not been happy with other stuff in terms of rules and regulations or joining responsibilities with other countries. They only wanted the stuff benfeitting them without any responsibilities.

The Brexit was a shot in the foot for themself as more than 50% of their business is with the rest of europe

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stop talking down our country!1 we'll export have our cake and eat it strong stable beep booorrt round up foreigners put them in camps boorrZt

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Stop channelling the talking Cheeto-headed idiot, Flip, I'm pretty sure that much stupid is dangerously toxic. 

You should leave killing brain cells for the Regimental drinking parties.

 

@DrunkCorsair:  Exchange rates, inflation, and (oddly enough) unemployment all correlate (though there isn't causation between inflation and unemployment, Mister Keynes).  Having a fixed exchange rate that results in the central bank having to put more money into circulation drives inflation up, and when you couple that to high unemployment levels you get nasty grassroots political unrest, of the kind that replaces governments.

The UK's version of the Chairman of the Federal Reserve admitted on camera that he cheered when the UK stopped the pegged currency as part of the Eurozone, since he was catching all sorts of heat due to the nasty inflation at the time.  He was fired less than a week later, for admitting that.

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@Section 9

Sure you cant handle such big  decissions in a vaccum. But the idea of fixed exchange rate as they had been set, was to bring the economy of all countries closer together (they failed in the part, that they should have done the same for taxes). There was more fear of losing votes in UK if they go full Euro than anything else.

And you can fight inflation, its something germans tried to do in the European Central Bank and lost horrible at times, but that would have been more unplaesant political decissions with the lose of voters.

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You can't fight inflation when you need to keep an exchange rate pegged.  You have lost the ability to adjust how much money is in circulation (which is how you control inflation) when you need to artificially inflate/deflate your exchange rate by adjusting how much money is in circulation.

Both goals use the same tool, but one effect is completely out of your control (the exchange rates) because it's a function of how much international trade you have.  The more European people want to buy stuff in Yen, the stronger the Yen becomes against the Euro.  If, like China, you want everyone to buy the stuff you make (and allow your currency to float), that very demand will drive up the value of your currency!

 

But yeah, the entire Eurozone is going to collapse economically at some point in time.  You have a disjointed fiscal policy and monetary policy.  More precisely, you have countries that do not share your fiscal policy with the ability to print more of your money.  It was really bad in 2009-2011 or so, to the point that I'm surprised that the Euro survived.

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Over the weekend it was my Faither's birthday so we were out for dinner at a local restaurant.

Ordering was a right old laugh, when people who can't hear were being spoken to by other people who can't hear and refuse to acknowledge this and speak in nary a whisper and no-one looking at who they're actually talking to, leaving me to translate for a confused waiter.

Aside from that I learned of an interesting prank some friends of my Faither pulled, back in the day.  It would be too expensive to pull off today, but it was still good:
Story was one of their friends bought a Lada back when they were new in western Europe, and before they rapidly developed a reputation for shite quality.  He was quite happy to have it, and always spoke of how great he thought it was.
The prank was that some of the others began refueling his car on the fly - they'd sneak round and top his car up with just a bit of fuel via funnel and not tell him.
Over the course of a week Lada guy began boasting harder than he'd ever boasted before - this commie-mobile was the best thing ever!  So incredible was its design that it was managing well over 60 miles per gallon!
He was convinced that he'd save a fortune on fuel, thanks to this incredible car!

When he put the car in to the garage for its first service, they stopped topping it up.

For weeks afterwards the guy was kicking up hell at the garage, demanding to know what the hell they'd done to his car to kill its incredible fuel economy.

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Ah - violates the terms of the topic, I'm afraid!

Not a WtF.
I sure don't want this place just to become a media dumping ground.

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Well I found out the other day that 75% of my surname was the codeword to launch the German invasions of France and Belgium in 1940

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On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 6:58 AM, DrunkCorsair said:

Did i miss something here or are you thinking about this: [SNIP]

No, I was talking about the political unrest, not protests. The German electorate has been a lot less...staid than in previous decades. There is no denying that Merkel's willingness to bail out Greece (i.e. spend German taxpayer money) or admit large numbers of refugees (i.e spend German taxpayer money) have resulted in a decrease in her overall popularity and allowed right-wing nutjobs like the AFD to enter parliament for the first time in 70 years.

But this is exactly the kind of intangible I mean - German taxpayers see there money going "elsewhere," but don't stop to consider the alternatives; if Greece fails and leaves the EU, there's the very real possibility that that could precipitate dissolution of the union, which would almost certainly be worse for Germany in the long run, both politically and economically. Similarly, admitting refugees may cause social issues, but the alternative is arguably worse - in addition to ceding any kind of moral authority on the world stage, you are leaving huge numbers of people in a failed nation-state where they are far more susceptible to radicalization. They will remember those who didn't lift a finger to help them.

And you may not like Angela Merkel, but she's pretty much the leader of the free world now. See above under people not recognizing intangibles until they're gone.

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1 hour ago, Munin said:

No, I was talking about the political unrest, not protests. The German electorate has been a lot less...staid than in previous decades. There is no denying that Merkel's willingness to bail out Greece (i.e. spend German taxpayer money) or admit large numbers of refugees (i.e spend German taxpayer money) have resulted in a decrease in her overall popularity and allowed right-wing nutjobs like the AFD to enter parliament for the first time in 70 years.

But this is exactly the kind of intangible I mean - German taxpayers see there money going "elsewhere," but don't stop to consider the alternatives; if Greece fails and leaves the EU, there's the very real possibility that that could precipitate dissolution of the union, which would almost certainly be worse for Germany in the long run, both politically and economically. Similarly, admitting refugees may cause social issues, but the alternative is arguably worse - in addition to ceding any kind of moral authority on the world stage, you are leaving huge numbers of people in a failed nation-state where they are far more susceptible to radicalization. They will remember those who didn't lift a finger to help them.

And you may not like Angela Merkel, but she's pretty much the leader of the free world now. See above under people not recognizing intangibles until they're gone.

You sound exactly like my German professor. Are you my German professor? Like, this exact conversation with these exact points were made in class yesterday. 

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