OblongPanther

"ajax Is A Retarded Gorilla Compared To The Excellence Of The Mukhtar And Numair Units"

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For some time now, i've wondered if we were going to see more 'native' TAGs in Haqq's future expansion.

The most likely places for this would be the Al Medinat Caliphate and the (potential) Diwan al Hachib sectorials.

 

Now, i'd assumed that, were we to get more TAGs, they'd probably be of the 'TAG-Lite' variety we've been seeing recently (although a small, unrealistic part of me is hoping the Hachib has Asawira-piloted SuperJumping TAGs :D )                      

 

However, i''ve been mulling over this statement from the recent CB chat thing:

 "Ajax is a retarded gorilla compared to the excellence of the Mukhtar and Numair units"

 

I assumed that this was some generous sprinkling of hyperbole, and any future 'Super Soldiers' would have some modest upgrades as opposed to anything truly terrifying.

 

Certainly this statement doesn't imply that these guys are more 'bricktotheface powerful' than Ajax, but perhaps this is Haqq's solution to the TAG issue? 

Instead of relying on other nations' cast-offs and ongoing good relations with the Nomads, they could, for example, take a HI and subject it to the same amount of tinkering and improving a LI goes through to become an Odalisque (and then give them Haris  :P )

 

So, i'm just wondering what people think on this; are we likely to see more TAGs, or will we be seeing some truly nightmarish Super Soldiers in lieu of them? ( i'd be OK with this)

 

Or alternatively, do you think we'll be seeing neither?

Perhaps because we'll be getting something else instead (Armoured Camels maybe? With AD2? Or 3? And HMG? And Braces? I like the way you think)

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Maybe...  Gengineered Haqq troops have been explored in the past, so it's not exactly outside the realms of possibility.

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I don't think we're going to see more TAGs that are Haqqislamite. Even the Maghariba isn't Haqq-made, it was designed and is produced by PanOceania (main rulebook, p.20), and then only the Maghariba Guard is the only regiment equipped with TAGs (main rulebook, p.69). Keep in mind that of the two Haqq Sectorials one (Hassassin Bahram) has no TAGs access at all, while the other (Qapu Khalqi) does have access to two TAGs that are considered Mercenaries (one purely Mercenary, the other leased from Corregidor, as a number of other units available to Corregidor).

 

I could, however, see some other variants of Maghariba, for example specialized variants buildt on the chassis from older models of Maghariba (it is not uncommon for the military to upgrade their hardware, and build specialized variants on what otherwise would be obsolete).

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I don't think we're going to see more TAGs that are Haqqislamite. Even the Maghariba isn't Haqq-made, it was designed and is produced by PanOceania (main rulebook, p.20), and then only the Maghariba Guard is the only regiment equipped with TAGs (main rulebook, p.69). 

 

I should clarify, by 'native' i meant in terms of rules not fluff *, ie: available in vanilla Haqq, as opposed to just Sectorials.

This leads me to the second point; the Marghariba are Haqq's only TAG regiment sure, but a Mercenary TAG that has AVA in vanilla Haqq is, to my mind, a 'native' TAG, just as Bashi and Kaplan are Haqqislam troops that are also Mercenaries, not Mercenaries that reside in certain Sectorial armies.

 

Personally, i don't think we are all that likely to see more TAGs, outside of perhaps a Merc some time in the future, and certainly I don't think we need them, but who knows what's coming up for Haqq? (aside from the CB gang obviously)

 

* note my use of the phrase "other nations' cast-offs"

 

[edit] @Psyfer - it's not so much a case of  "Will we get more GenEng troops?" we've pretty much been told we will; it's more a question of, will they experience the more modest upgrades we've largely seen so far, or are they going to 'turn it up to 11' and genuinely give us something that could be held alongside Ajax in sheer badassedness?

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Maybe an Impersonator Hacker or Impersonator with Monofilament as a way to deal with TAGs? This could fit in to Vanilla and HB. 

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I would agree that I doubt we'd see more TAGs in the traditional sense.  I'm curious to see the future of the Maghariba Guard.  My appeal to it is the unique six legged-ness, but at the same point it makes it very wide/large compared to others and can be difficult in mobility.

 

As to the genetic engineered miniTAGs, I totally see this happening.

Engineered benefits of Haqq already exist in the sense of NWI, Regeneration, Super Jump, and faster movement so I don't think it's out of the realm to consider other features like MS2, X-Visor, and other enhanced stats.

 

I would like to see an Asura like creation.  Multiple wounds combined with NWI.  Toss in some armor plating, maybe MS2 or X-Visor with something like an MK12 and we should have a fun, if cheaper, Asura like beast.  Haqq does have some TO, so maybe one will end up with that as well?

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I would like to see an Asura like creation.  Multiple wounds combined with NWI.  Toss in some armor plating, maybe MS2 or X-Visor with something like an MK12 and we should have a fun, if cheaper, Asura like beast.  Haqq does have some TO, so maybe one will end up with that as well?

 

I was thinking about something in this ball park.

A decent MI with a nice mutation is fine, but it's not in the realm of Ajax or a mini TAG.

If they're going to live up to that claim, then i'm thinking multiple upgrades that nicely complement one-another to make a real killer with some nasty stats (like Tarik for example.)

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Ajax was made to be a tank. Supersoilder are just enhanced humans bio at that, they will never be as strong as a consrtucted body. But, with the right tech they could come damn close.

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From what the CB said about Haqq supersoldiers, I understeand they will be of comparable power to Achilles... but along different lines. Achilles is, as you say, a tank. A TAG in a human-sized package. This is, however, not the Haqq style. Haqq supersoldiers should have much more fineese. 

 

How will that "fineese" look? 

I don't really know...

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While big tags are nice, i think a different spin on things would be good for HAQ. Make our Engineer get some toys. Combat servants.Or is this too close to what Alphe has.

 

I would not mind a couple cheap servants you can attach to the engineer that are his mobile tool box. make it so he can have 2 or 3, basically make him the leader of a linked team, but able not be the one taking the action. The others all take the action simultaneously, BS in the BS 10 range with L shotgun only to reduce abuse.  Speed 6-2, One option minelayer, another smoke grenade, repeater ect.

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More Poison? 

 

Its hard to imagine what a super soldier will look like because there are a number of ways for it to go. Tarik proves this beautifully by being the fast all around good stats with a movement ability and a couple don't CC me abilities. They could go for more brutish like a Ajax, more stealthy, designed for CC (not something I'm really wanting personally except in the way of Tarik), a high tech able to handle situations most Haqq have trouble with being closer to an Asura and such.

 

Honestly I think its possible for a MI to give Ajax a run for his money simply by somehow matching the magic of Tarik with a bit of something else but on a bigger frame. Tarik is LI with 2 wounds, a MI with 2 wounds, dogged, slightly better than Tarik stats, a MK12 and such would be beastly and if cheaper than Ajax could give him a serious headache. Though honestly that Impetuous makes Ajax so very cheap its going to be hard to come up with a genetically engineered super soldier that will be able to go toe to toe with him for near the same price.

 

In another thread it was said the names translated to Panther and Chosen if I remember. I doubt they are both going to be hulking Ajax like monsters. Honestly if the Panther is a super stealthy hunter (read something like a lot of skirmishers but awesome) then that can take down an Ajax with ease at distance. 

 

And, honestly all Haqq units make Ajax look like a retarded gorilla. Ajax is a 12 WIP Lieutenant.  :xp:

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While big tags are nice, i think a different spin on things would be good for HAQ. Make our Engineer get some toys. Combat servants.Or is this too close to what Alphe has.

 

I would not mind a couple cheap servants you can attach to the engineer that are his mobile tool box. make it so he can have 2 or 3, basically make him the leader of a linked team, but able not be the one taking the action. The others all take the action simultaneously, BS in the BS 10 range with L shotgun only to reduce abuse.  Speed 6-2, One option minelayer, another smoke grenade, repeater ect.

 

I would say it sounds pretty similar to the Nasmat assistant REM, save for the combat part. 

And keep in mind we aren't masters in Robotics. Out TAG is PanO made. Our REM are rudimentary. Our Assistant REM are made, IIRC, on a Yu Jing license with Nomad software...

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I would say it sounds pretty similar to the Nasmat assistant REM, save for the combat part. 

And keep in mind we aren't masters in Robotics. Out TAG is PanO made. Our REM are rudimentary. Our Assistant REM are made, IIRC, on a Yu Jing license with Nomad software...

That's the point, Haqq doesn't get the biggest and baddest, but the engineers are key at using what they have. Don't make the combat servants big and mean, make them improved versions of existing nasmat remotes.The engineers and take advantage what they have and mix it with Haqq methodology. Haqq is the first to use Harris teams, so why not take the infantry philosophy and move it their equipment.

 

The Najjarun Engineers are specialists in trench warfare, tunnel excavation, siege warfare, sap, the laying of minefields and countermining. Destined to be the vanguard, they open and clear the way for the rest of the Haqqislamite army.

They are also responsible for the repairs to the mechanized and armoured units.

The Najjarun are equivalent to the staff doctors for the worthy Magharibas and the Remotes. Part of their mission is to make the work of the rest of the army easier and for this reason they are held in high esteem as specialists within the Infantry. Najjaruns are highly skilled, especially considering the little means available to them; they keep the sophisticated equipment going with no more than microwelders and chemical adhesives. This is why it is frequent to hear of the Najjarun’s “magic saliva”, referring to their ability to solve difficult technical problems despite the scarcity of their resources.

 

Up next on Pimp My Remote - Combat servants

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Some Asawira are chosen to be the Shah's bodyguards. Perhaps Mukhtar refers to this? Bostria's answer was about Caliphate troops, or so it seemed. This would indicate that the Mukhtar are Asawira+, scary thought. The Odas, as bodyguards, have SSL2 and NWI. Imagine that on an Asawira. Maybe ARM 4, and just to wish list, Total Immunity, but more likely Martial Arts 3 or 4 or some such.

My guess about the Mukhtar. Already gave my thoughts on the Numair.

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Well, Ajax is sort of retarded having wip 12. So I guess what Bostria said means you gonna get wip 14+ supersoldiers. Like another Kharawaji :P

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Well, Ajax is sort of retarded having wip 12. So I guess what Bostria said means you gonna get wip 14+ supersoldiers. Like another Kharawaji :P

Don't Kharawaji have WIP 15? Maybe the Haqq supersoldier has WIP 18...highest in the game. Ha ha, take that Pan-O!

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PanO was never in contention for high WIP.

 

I think its just the 'biased fluff' that abounds in Infinity. I like that each faction talks smack about each other, so who knows what is real and what is propaganda? As the player, you get to decide. Nomads and Aleph/PanO is in stark contrast.

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I think I can guess what it will be. 
 

1. Regeneration. A Haqq speciality which has a lot of power built in. 

2. Skirmisher. A mobile version of Asawira but not the same as Tarik and freinds

3. Viral CCW. They are in the game, makes sense here.

4. A new play mechanic. It is reasonable to conclude that they will need something fancy to make them more than simply tough skirmishers. The unit I described above is exactly the same as a CA Shrouded for all intensive purposes. I am expecting they have some sort of powerful new game mechanism that makes them an elite unit. 

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There's a lot of other neat possibilities within the existing rules. Meta-Agility, for instance, or Superior Infilitration (I wouldn't do both on the same model, but...) An HI with Meta-Agility and long range weaponry (Sniper Rifle, Mk12, HRL) could be totally amazing. Meta-Chemistry (probably L2) would also be solid. Cheaper HI that requires a "control device" unit.

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My guess goes for a PH 14+ super jump mov 6-4, hyperdinamics level 1 or 2, NWI, bs 12 armour 3 super troop with assault options, heavy shotgun, spitfire, that stuff.

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Some Asawira are chosen to be the Shah's bodyguards. Perhaps Mukhtar refers to this?

 

That's something I'd never thought about before; what are the selected Asawira like, and  what sort of skills and equipment do they use?

I'd imagine if we were to see the Shah's personal guard, it would be in the Diwan al Hachib, but once again, who can say.

 

Perhaps 'Chosen' refers to selection for the Mukhtar program, in the same way that only certain people can survive the Runihura that the Khwarijj go through in order to become many Haqq players' go-to proxy

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My guess goes for a PH 14+ super jump mov 6-4, hyperdinamics level 1 or 2, NWI, bs 12 armour 3 super troop with assault options, heavy shotgun, spitfire, that stuff.

Otherwise known as the corrected Khawarijs. ;)

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I actually like the idea of Khawarijj being 'lesser' super soldiers and having something really nasty bouncing alongside them (although we already have Tarik for that)

 

That said, it would be fun to see something totally different as well, and as Studentochaos mentioned, they might have a new skill we haven't even seen yet (like laser eye beams or acid breath :P

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I'd imagine if we were to see the Shah's personal guard, it would be in the Diwan al Hachib, but once again, who can say.

 

I seriously doubt it: Shah is the regional ruler of the Iran Zhat Al Amat Shahate (just the same way Sultan rules the Funduq Sultanate, Caliph rules the Al-Medinat Caliphate and Khan rules the Ghabqar Khanate), while Hachib is the Prime Minister of the whole Haqqislam. 

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