TheMatsjo

Everything In Threes: An Introduction To Tohaa [N3]

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You say the gao rael can see through the zero v smoke from makaul, was this changed from n2? Afaik we don't know what zero v smoke does in n3 but I would assume it still works the same.

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You say the gao rael can see through the zero v smoke from makaul, was this changed from n2? Afaik we don't know what zero v smoke does in n3 but I would assume it still works the same.

The rulebook says this under the entry for the MSV2:

Additionally, it allows the user to draw LoF through Zero Visibility Zones, and ignore the -6 MOD imposed by those Zones on BS Attacks.

I think I might have been too hasty interpreting the rules that way; there's no entry for Zero-V smoke in the core rules, and regular grenades create Zero Visibility Zones, we might see the Zero-V Smoke entry specifying that MSV2 doesn't pierce it. I'll remove the note, at least until the Human Sphere rules drop. Good catch I think.

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Was waiting for your update on your previous Tohaa tactica! :) Nice to see it up and ready! Let's playtest! ;) 

 

 

Btw, TheMatsjo, you still in the country? There's going to be a tournament in Leiden end of the month. It's up in the event section here, or in the Dutch Thread on Data Sphere.

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Sorry dude check the wiki. Zero v smoke specifically states that no level of msv can penetrate it. The wiki is still valid as zero v is human sphere rules. So that is the rule until the either change it or re write it. Human sphere rules are still in play guys. Same goes for link teams rules. Etc....

So until the day comes might want to amend the post.

I should also note that smoke creates zero v zones so that is why msv 2 sees through smoke without penalty.

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Thanks for all the hard work TheMatsjo

 

You know, a list of all the enemy units capable of bringing fire ammo done in this format showing pictures and listing basic stats and skills would be an enormous resource to new Tohaa players and certain Tohaa players like me that think all humans look alike.  I'd do it myself but it sounds like a lot of work...

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I heavily updated the OP.

 

So until the day comes might want to amend the post.

I made the appropriate edits, thanks.

 

You know, a list of all the enemy units capable of bringing fire ammo done in this format showing pictures and listing basic stats and skills would be an enormous resource to new Tohaa players and certain Tohaa players like me that think all humans look alike.  I'd do it myself but it sounds like a lot of work...

I'm not going to list all the units that can bring Fire weapons, but I could consider listing all the weapons that have Fire Ammunition, that shouldn't be that much of a hassle. I'll link to thread discussing notable enemies or problematic matchups for easy navigation, but that's it for me.

You're welcome by the way.

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Thanks for the efforts TheMatsjo. I find these threads quite helpful. 

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Thanks for this update it's great. Has anyone run through the new skills & special skills to see what is and is not available to units in fireteams?

I'm thinking of some of the entire order skills like "lean out" or Aelis within a team using "triangulated fire", would this break her out of the triad?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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Another excellent tactica Tohaa and a very useful resource. Thanks !

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I've made a lot of changes to the OP as a result of the new errata, especially under Fireteam: Tohaa, Cyberwarfare and Command.

 

Thanks for this update it's great. Has anyone run through the new skills & special skills to see what is and is not available to units in fireteams?

I'm thinking of some of the entire order skills like "lean out" or Aelis within a team using "triangulated fire", would this break her out of the triad?

 

I've added this information under 3.1, using those Orders does indeed break the Trident.

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"Another Symbiont Armor quirk is that it cannot be healed/repaired, and the model wearing it can only be revived from the Unconscious state by a model with bóth the Doctor ánd Engineer skills (currently only the Kumotail), leaving simple Paramedics unable to help them."

<--From the first post, highlighted by me

 

 

•Moreover, when a MediKit is applied to a troop possessing a Symbiont Armor to heal him, the troop makes a PH Roll instead of a PH-3 Roll.

<--Wiki about Symbiont Armor

 

Got a little confused when i saw this sentence, since every paramedic carries a medkit and can heal models in symbiont armor.

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"Another Symbiont Armor quirk is that it cannot be healed/repaired, and the model wearing it can only be revived from the Unconscious state by a model with bóth the Doctor ánd Engineer skills (currently only the Kumotail), leaving simple Paramedics unable to help them."

<--From the first post, highlighted by me

 

 

•Moreover, when a MediKit is applied to a troop possessing a Symbiont Armor to heal him, the troop makes a PH Roll instead of a PH-3 Roll.

<--Wiki about Symbiont Armor

 

Got a little confused when i saw this sentence, since every paramedic carries a medkit and can heal models in symbiont armor.

Normal Doctors carry a medikit as well which can be fired from range to heal a friendly trooper (page 138 on the N3 rule book).

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I've been wrong for a while then! I'll fix it when I get home. Thanks, this is good news.

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You mention multiple times in the Biotech Weapon section (3.3) that the exotic weapons get to ignore cover... what is the basis for that?  As far as I know, there is nothing about weapons that target BTS that allows them to ignore the cover bonuses.  Of course, if we're talking about the oodles of template weapons that Tohaa can also pack, that's a different story :)

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•Moreover, when a MediKit is applied to a troop possessing a Symbiont Armor to heal him, the troop makes a PH Roll instead of a PH-3 Roll.

<--Wiki about Symbiont Armor

 

Got a little confused when i saw this sentence, since every paramedic carries a medkit and can heal models in symbiont armor.

Normal Doctors carry a medikit as well which can be fired from range to heal a friendly trooper (page 138 on the N3 rule book).

My God. After rereading the entries I realize I've been completely wrong in understanding how healing Symbiont Armor works from the very start! So:

- Active Symbiont Profile units cán be healed, but only by Doctor+Engineers

- Inactive Symbiont Profile units cán be healed by anyone with the skill, but never recover their Active Symbiont Profile

- Paramedics and other non-Engineers cán revive Inactive Symbiont Profiles, but not repair Active Symbiont Profiles

- Unconscious Inactive Symbiont Profile units roll PH instead of PH-3 to be revived

Holy hell, and here I've nót been trying to heal my Symbiont Wearers all this time. I need to get me a Kumotail...

Does anyone disagree with the above?

 

You mention multiple times in the Biotech Weapon section (3.3) that the exotic weapons get to ignore cover... what is the basis for that?  As far as I know, there is nothing about weapons that target BTS that allows them to ignore the cover bonuses.  Of course, if we're talking about the oodles of template weapons that Tohaa can also pack, that's a different story :)

I was wrong there too, from the rulebook page 34:

The target of the BS Attack can apply a +3 MOD to its ARM/BTS Attribute in any possible subsequent ARM/BTS Rolls.

I'll make the appropriate changes, thanks for two excellent catches! Both interpretations came about from rules discussions a good long while ago, I guess they just stuck without proper examination.

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I don't see how You could heal an active symbiont profile; the Doctor skill still only works on models in the Unconscious state, and the Engineer skill can't repair squat on a unit with the Wounds attribute. I honestly have no idea why they required doc+engineer if they also allowed medpacks to do the same thing... maybe it will become clear with some future profile release.

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"Troops possessing a Symbiont Armor can only be recovered from the Unconscious state to Normal (Recovering 1 single Wound) so they never recover the Active Symbiont Armor profile. They cannot recover more Wounds, no matter if their Troop Type is a T.A.G. because they have no STR Attribute."

<---http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Symbiont_Armor

 

So, pretty simple, a Doctor+Engineer can bring a model with symbiont armor back from unconscious to one wound (btb contact, WIP roll by doc+eng), but not to Active Symbiont armor. If healed by a Medcit (Paramedic or Doctor) the Model recovers its inactive profile if it passes a normal PH roll (instead of PH-3).

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Eng+Doc model (Kumotail, Spec-Ops) is only usefull when you want to bring Ectros, Rasail,Neema from 1w back to 2w. Its all happend when symbiont armor is active.

 

ps. similar for Gorgos.

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No, you can´t recover the Active Symbiont Armor status, even with Doctor-Engineer. When it´s gone it´s gone, see above.

 

Edit:

Just to clarify, you also can´t heal a model that is not unconscious. A Model that has lost one or two wounds (HI , Gorgos and Rasail)  from its Active Symbiont Armor profile isn´t unconscious,

 

And since the Gorgos were mentioned, his Peripheral carries a light shotgun, not a flamethrower,

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No, you can´t recover the Active Symbiont Armor status, even with Doctor-Engineer. When it´s gone it´s gone, see above.

To be able to heal a troop possessing a Symbiont Armor, it is required to have not only the Doctor Special Skill, but also the Engineer Special Skill.

 

Based on above i assume my previoius post is correct. Eng+doc can be used to heal Rasail from 1w back to 2w while he is possesing his Symbiont Armor.

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I think you can never heal a trooper with Active Symbiont (i think i read that in the wiki). You have to wait for his symbiont to die, thus he never can revert back to Active symbiont state.

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To be able to heal a troop possessing a Symbiont Armor, it is required to have not only the Doctor Special Skill, but also the Engineer Special Skill.

 

Based on above i assume my previoius post is correct. Eng+doc can be used to heal Rasail from 1w back to 2w while he is possesing his Symbiont Armor.

Well to heal someone with Doctor:

 

DOCTOR SHORT SKILL

REQUIREMENTS

»»The user must be in base to base contact with his target.

»»The target must have a Wounds Attribute.

»»The target must be in Unconscious state.

 

For Medikit

 

 

MEDIKIT SHORT SKILL

REQUIREMENTS

»»MediKits can only be used on Unconscious friendly troopers

 

REMEMBER

MediKits can only be used to heal friendly troopers in

the Unconscious state, and they can recover only 1 point

of their Wounds Attribute at a time. MediKits cannot heal

more than 1 point of Wounds, and they have no effect on

non-Unconscious troopers.

(emphasis added) None of those allow to work with a non-unconsious model. So going from 1W back to 2W isn´t possible with healing.You would need regeneration for that.

 

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Also, the rules are pretty clear about this, i quote again:

 

"Troops possessing a Symbiont Armor can only be recovered from the Unconscious state to Normal (Recovering 1 single Wound) so they never recover the Active Symbiont Armor profile. They cannot recover more Wounds, no matter if their Troop Type is a T.A.G. because they have no STR Attribute."

<---http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Symbiont_Armor (emphasis added)

 

And, as it was said before, you can only heal unconscious models, a state a trooper with Actice Symbiont Armor lacks:

 

"The “Active Symbiont Armor” troop profile lacks an Unconscious state. When it loses all its Wounds, it stops suffering damage, and the successive Wounds the figure receives will be applied directly to the “Inactive Symbiont Armor” troop profile, which is its user’s."

<--http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Symbiont_Armor(emphasis added).

 

So i´m sorry, you can´t. I really wish it were otherwise, but it isn´t.

 

 

 

Edit: Maybe the confusion about this stems from the fact that an engineer can heal STR models even if they´re not disabled and even back to their full STR (in case of TAGs). But remember, no Symbiont Armor model has a STR, all have Wounds (as stated in the rules entry).  Which you can´t heal above 1W, for which they must be unconscious.

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All right, let's try to break this down.

From the Wiki:

To be able to heal a troop possessing a Symbiont Armor, it is required to have not only the Doctor Special Skill, but also the Engineer Special Skill.

The rules seem to make a distinction between healing and recovering. Healing could refer to restoring Wounds to a model that is nót Unconscious, while recovering refers to return a model from the Unconscious state back to 1 Wound. If correct, only a Doctor+Engineer can heal models with Symbiont Armor because all Tohaa models have only 1W in their Inactive Symbiont Profile and could otherwise never be healed, only restored. The idea is probably that only a Doctor+Engineer knows how to repair the armor because of its biomechanical nature.

Making the distinction between healing and recovering is very much conjecture, it's not used consistently in the rules entry. I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

Unconscious figures possessing a Symbiont Armor that are given a MediKit to cure them, make a PH Roll instead of the usual PH-3 Roll the MediKit rule states.

An Unconscious Tohaa fighter is in its Inactive Symbiont Profile, so we know that MediKits can be used to recover (but not heal) models that have Inactive Symbiont Armor. I don't know why it would get a bonus for healing form a fluff perspective, it would make more sense if Symbiont armor couldn't be repaired, as a way of balancing for that drawback.

 

Troops possessing a Symbiont Armor can only be recovered from the Unconscious state to Normal (Recovering 1 single Wound) so they never recover the Active Symbiont Armor profile. They cannot recover more Wounds, no matter if their Troop Type is a T.A.G. because they have no STR Attribute.

The Symbiont Armor is detached from its wearer when the model goes from its Active to its Inactive Symbiont Profile, in real world terms the armor is probably left on the battlefield somewhere: the trooper simply isn't inside the armor anymore. That means the trooper can never regain its Symbiont Armor, it has vanished for game purposes. The trooper's Inactive Symbiont Profile is essentially just the profile of a normal trooper that can thus be healed as normal.

 

A failure on the healing roll for a Symbiont Armor carrier who is in an Unconscious state means the automatic Death of the figure, which must be removed from the game table.

Apart of that, a failure in the repair of a Symbiont Armor with a Disabled Marker (DIS), or an Immobilized Marker (IMM), means the Symbiont Armor is definitively Disabled or Immobilized, without any possibility of repair. In such cases, its wearer can always detach from the Symbiont Armor and keep playing with its Inactive Symbiont Armor profile.

The second portion seems to reaffirm that model in their Inactive Symbiont Profile have simply left the Symbiont behind which is the reason why they start behaving as regular troopers from that point on.

Reading it like this I feel compelled to think that healing Active Symbiont profiles ís actually possible.

What do you think, does this make sense? Do we need to take this to Rules of Engagement? I realise I'm probably reaching, but something seems off about the wording that makes me reconsider their intent.

 

I don't see how You could heal an active symbiont profile; the Doctor skill still only works on models in the Unconscious state, and the Engineer skill can't repair squat on a unit with the Wounds attribute. I honestly have no idea why they required doc+engineer if they also allowed medpacks to do the same thing... maybe it will become clear with some future profile release.

Perhaps the Symbiont Armor 'Wounds' function partially like Structure points? Your point on Doctor+Engineer is what's triggering me to think there's something we're not getting: why would a MediKit be able to do something a Doctor can't? If Symbiont Armor cán be healed it seems to make more sense, and Doctors and MediKits can both heal thos models equally well.

 

So, pretty simple, a Doctor+Engineer can bring a model with symbiont armor back from unconscious to one wound (btb contact, WIP roll by doc+eng), but not to Active Symbiont armor. If healed by a Medcit (Paramedic or Doctor) the Model recovers its inactive profile if it passes a normal PH roll (instead of PH-3).

You're probably right rules-wise, but it seems weird to me now. Why does the MediKit do something a Doctor can't? And why would a normal Doctor not be able to restore someone who has detached from their armor?

 

Eng+Doc model (Kumotail, Spec-Ops) is only usefull when you want to bring Ectros, Rasail,Neema from 1w back to 2w. Its all happend when symbiont armor is active.

 

ps. similar for Gorgos.

This is what I imagine to make more sense when I look at Symbiont's nature. The Symbiont would be treated as a biomechanical construct that can be "repaired", but only by a model that is álso a Doctor because of the Symbiont's biological components.

*sigh* I wish áll of the rules had gotten the N3 treatment, now I have to wait and see if this gets any changes, potentially making this entire exchange obsolete.

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