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mr7q

[Solved] Extension Of Tags + Buildings + Movement

Question

 

It might be because of the terrain that I have around here, but I'm expecting to work with a rule of thumb:  If the scenery element would fit entirely on your base, you walk through it.  Otherwise, you walk over it.
 
But that's basically a "Stairs vs. tactical rock" rule of thumb that breaks down when you get to the notifier's tactical staircase.   :S
 
Edit:  But the tie breaker that would say "If the tactical staircase was scenery, you'd place the model on top of it" would probably be:  Note:  Both the model and the scenery items in question have to fit on the base at the same time.  If you have to put the model on top of the scenery to fit the scenery on the base, you're already proving the point that you're model's going to stand on top.

 

 

How does this work for a wall?  Something like a wall might be wider than a single base, but the miniature is unable to actually stand on top of it.

 

This issue has come up with a S6 silhouette, which is just slightly taller than a MAS wall (but obviously not as wide as said wall), and we were unsure if he stands on top of the wall (silhouette placed on top of wall) or slinks over the top (silhouette "phases" through wall).

 

My assumption from the above ruling in slightly more precise wording is:

"Any scenery item that can be fully contained within the volume of the silhouette cylinder can be ignored during movement, otherwise the silhouette is placed on top of the scenery item for the purposes of LOS checking during movement for AROs."

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If the wall is taller than the Silhouette height you need to use a Climb or Jump skill anyway.

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Derp, had it backwards.  The silhouette is taller than the wall by a few mm.  Altering original post as such.

 

The choice was McMurrough standing proud on top of the wall, or becoming a pancake and sliding over the top.

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Hmm, how about this as a working text?

If the trooper's base could fit on top (edit - of the obstacle) then the trooper's Silhouette moves over the top of the obstacle. If the obstacle is too small for this, the trooper's Silhouette stays at ground level.

Edited by IJW Wartrader
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The distinction I had in mind when I wrote the quoted response was based mostly of surface area of the base.

 

If you have 1/2" thick box, if that box fills up most of the surface of your base, then you're going to stand on top of it while moving along.

If that box only fills up part of the surface of your base, you're going to move through it instead of over it.

 

I've got some "jersey barriers" and small crates that you could balance a model on top of, but you'd be putting paint jobs and sanity at risk to do.  :scared-(-nahh-):

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The narrowest definition of my example would be a single sheet of MDF acting as a wall across the middle of the table shorter than the silhouette in question...  No way you're going to balance a model on top of it, but it's definitely wider than the base.

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Well, a piece of a single MDF sheet that's shorter than your model, even if it's a foot wide, is still going to fit on your base next to your model if it's still just one sheet thick.  :D 

 

But, really, there are some crates that I have that are an inch wide, a half inch tall, and a half inch wide, that can pretty much go either way--it would make sense to place a 25mm base on top of them, but it would make equal sense for the model to just walk through them. 

 

Edit:  But they'd make the base look too crowded, and you'd probably end up putting the model on top of it if you were going to glue both the crate and the model onto a base.

 

But that same inch by half inch by half inch crate is going to fit confortably on the 40mm base of an Anathematic.  So the Anathematic would go through the crate, while an S2 Morat would probably walk over it, by that standard.

Edited by solkan
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No way you're going to balance a model on top of it, but it's definitely wider than the base.

I think there's some confusion creeping somewhere. How thick is the MDF? :(

If it's less than 25mm wide then it's narrower than the base and you can't fit the model on top.

If it's more than 25mm wide then it's wide enough for the model to fit on top.

If it's more than 25mm wide and has a rounded or pointy top so that the model wouldn't stand on top then you're going to have to come up with some house rules for that specific bit of terrain.

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Monday mornings don't make for coherent communication from my end apparently...  Tried to use MDF to make things easier, didn't work.

 

Here's how it actually went down:

 

These are the walls in question (disregard the holo ad).  A S6 silhoutte is just slightly taller than them.  There were about three of them placed end to end.  McMurrough moved impetuously across the middle one, and the debate arose between the two options:

  1. Standing proud on top of the wall with his kilt flapping majestically in the breeze (meaning a sniper would have LOS for an ARO since the total height was wall+S6)
  2. He phases through the wall by becoming a very furry pancake and sliding over the top (meaning the sniper wouldn't have LOS since his height was still only S6).

 

T00044_ConcreteWall_Set02a.jpg

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Those are far narrower than an S6 base. Aren't they only 20mm or so wide?

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He would phase through that wall

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Those are far narrower than an S6 base. Aren't they only 20mm or so wide?

 

I think people are referring to different things by "width:" one to the dimension parallel to the movement and one perpendicular to it.

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Monday mornings don't make for coherent communication from my end apparently...

 

These are the walls in question (disregard the holo ad).  A S6 silhoutte is just slightly taller than them.  There were about three of them placed end to end.  McMurrough moved impetuously across them, and the debate arose if he stood on top of the wall (meaning a sniper would have LOS for an ARO since the total height was wall+S6), or if he phased through the wall (meaning the sniper wouldn't have LOS since his height was still only S6 as he tactically became a pancake and slid over the wall).

 

T00044_ConcreteWall_Set02a.jpg

 

Simple solution:  Put spacers underneath those walls to make them taller.  :D   Honestly, that's what I'm going to do if break out the Mototronica buildings for a regular game and there's any chance that TAGs are going to show up.

 

The the different silhouette heights do end up causing some problems with existing scenery.  (Those walls were produced during 2nd edition, and pre-date the silhouettes...)  So you're probably better off in a lot of cases of just treating borderline scenery as a few base heights taller than it really is.

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Simple solution:  Put spacers underneath those walls to make them taller.  :D

 

Then you just run into the same problem with S7 silhouettes... :P

 

Here's my crappy drawing.

 

Sketch81123926_sm_zpsqrcfgkxq.jpg

 

Case 2 is most likely solution B.

Case 3 is most likely solution A.

 

Case 1, where it's wider in one dimension, but smaller in all the others, is where the confusion comes from.

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Yeah, I hadn't even been considering width perpendicular to travel. Case 1 would be B, the wall isn't wider in the direction of travel than the base is.

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Excellent, Solution B for Case 1 prevents me from asking the extended question of what happens of the short wall only protudes halfway into the base.

 

Here's hoping for a [sOLVED]!

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Now with handy diagrams.
 
post-951-0-40569500-1433787004.jpg
 
post-951-0-66322000-1433787016.jpg

post-951-0-40569500-1433787004_thumb.jpg

post-951-0-66322000-1433787016_thumb.jpg

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Handily, this also answers the question about whether a trooper can step up or down by it's Silhouette height for free during it's movement.

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Dumb and off-topic question, but how do you get attached images to show up full size? The "insert into post" button only gives me thumbnails.

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I manually grabbed the URLs of the full images and edited the post to include them as well.

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Now with handy diagrams.

 

post-951-0-40569500-1433787004.jpg

 

 

What if the model ends his movement while passing through the wall (as in the situation in the middle of the diagram, but having no remaining movement)?

I would play that the model stops in btb contact with the wall, before passing it, i think.

 

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I can't see any other way you could play it.

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Stopping the model after he passed the wall, maybe.

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That would involve moving the trooper further than it's MOV value, which is usually only possible by falling... ;)

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You would have to stop short to follow with the usual rule of not placing models where their bases don't fit.

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You would have to stop short to follow with the usual rule of not placing models where their bases don't fit.

 

I was all set to disagree and try to argue in favor of something like 40k's Wobbly Model Syndrome, but that's enough precedent to make me reconsider.  :angry:  :_typo__by_bad_blood:

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