MittenNinja

Remote Presence: An Infinity Podcast

143 posts in this topic

Spec ops rules are a bit more broken up and segmented than most. They inherit the rules of their archetype, so if it is a spec ops from Vanguards they can join that core if in MAF and a Fusilier spec ops inherit Fusilier core in MO and Neoterra. It is in Paradiso.

A shas spec ops will not be allowed to join a MAF core of course :P

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Like Mayacast that was suspiciously cheerleadery in tone but with even less mention of what MAF lost.

- Suryats lost the ability to make decisions and no longer have Courage.

- Sogarats are incapable of working together without Kornak's supervision.

- Raktoraks are too elitist to work with anyone other than Kornak or Suryats, but are afraid to work with Sogarats.  

- A 4 point Gaki costs 22 points and takes up two unit slots in one battle group. If you want Hungries in two different battle groups it takes an Oznat in each group before you can bring one. If linked during deployment, once the Core is broken it cannot be reformed. 

- Yaogats lost the only 0 SWC combirifle they had. 

- Morats are stuck with a bio-construct liability or paramedics.

What MAF did get, minor price reductions, a few sensible profiles, a Sargent Major marginally worth using, and the link options are good. Useful. Helpful even. But no self respecting Morat player wants a cammo unit. :_PickingOn__by_bad_blood:

 

 

One other thing, where is it stated that a Spec Ops can join a Vanguard Core? Anyat can, but she is a special character, I can't seem to find any reference to the custom Treitak Spec Ops being able to join a Vanguard Core. 

You could be Pan-O.

In all seriousness; no one has the ability to cry foul or success right now. The sectorial game got a huge upgrade and the game as whole is tremendously different in feel already than in N2.5.

We are going to be looking at very different ways of playing; old playstyles and tendencies may jutlst disappear entirely as everyone refocuses and learns the game again.

Infinity just doesn't have the factional disparity like in other games and player skill can really drive how well an army does not the list.

OT: Really enjoy y'alls Cast. Great discussions and group chemistry (probably the booze)

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http://www.rempresence.com/episode/random-musings-and-apparently-onyxchat/

We did sort of a mixed-bag topic discussion in this one.  I'm a little behind schedule with publishing it because well, life.

Onyx Contact Force comes up A TON as we move from topic to topic, but we also talk about things like Killer Hackers, Fireteam Duo, D-Charges, Order Count, Going First in HSN3, JSA, and units that are typically seen as "problem units" for players such as Haramaki Fireteams with multiple missile launchers.

Hope you all enjoy!  Thanks for listening!

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About halfway through the latest episode. 

Regarding spec ops or no spec ops for tournaments: as they currently exist, I dislike spec-ops and feel they have no place in tournament games.  The generic menu of choices makes players immediately take the things they are not supposed to have.  Especially when they are zero SWC and dirty cheap to the point of being auto-includes.  Especially in sectorials, but even in the more skew oriented vanilla factions like Ariadna.  Ariadna isn't supposed to have a WIP 14 infiltrating hacker for zero SWC and 9 points, and Ariadna absolutely does not need access to things they are not supposed to have.  Their units hardly got touched in the big book of buffs that was HSN3 for a reason.  Nor does it really balance out with everyone having one, in that some of the more skew-y lists like Ariadna and JSA are supposed to struggle with some pretty poor access to things like doctors and engineers that can get places, and lists with good access to specialists don't get a build your own spec ops option that let them get under priced tooled up HI or MI options that they might be missing in exchange for their good LI specialist access.

It isn't even strictly a balance issue either.  In games, they often get less fun in the long run when players get a way to get what they want.  It is fun for a little while when a restriction gets lifted, but once that elation wears off, you no longer have the same puzzle in the army builder that you previously spent hours and hours thinking about how to make a set of compromises to get something that you feel will perform in a way that you want to try out.  New options should come with new costs to maintain that tension in decision making, and a comical lack of anything approaching a cost is pretty much the defining feature of build your own spec ops.  They are bad but popular design in a can.

The existing spec ops system also feels like an obvious placeholder system, with the associated expectation that a placeholder system isn't going to produce sane results even if strictly speaking it is functional.  I imagine they will re-do it in Paradiso N3.  Although I'm skeptical that a simplistic formula lacking a nuanced fudge factor for determining cost will ever produce a usable set of fair prices for a build your own unit, and likely result in outputs with a wide scatter from too expensive to too cheap.  If so, then it seems likely the results in the Goldilocks Zone of fair outputs will immediately be overshadowed by the under priced results, let alone the over-priced options.  Then again, maybe they'll crack it somehow, but that is definitely an evaluation that should occur when they've actually built the system for reals.

 

As for sectorials and vanilla being different but equal: the fact that the mission pool changes per tournament and is announced means that who has the advantage, even if by a micron, will change with that context and how that context fits with the different trade-offs that vanilla and sectorials make.  So it does in fact depend.

If Armory is in the pool, it gets really hard for the Yu Jing player to not consider taking a Haramaki + Domaru link for the order efficency to get them inside, and then spend some command tokens they don't need for movement efficiency to coordinate accessing the dispensers to pull out a bunch of weapons and bonus ARM to put the already ball busting link into pure insanity in a way that a non-link wouldn't benefit from quite as much, and you need to cluster in the building anyways.  Or you might have the mission with all those neutral repeaters covering the table that makes a player want to vomit upon thinking about playing that as JSA and start looking at the wider range of options running as vanilla would allow them for de-emphasizing HI more gracefully, spread out to cover the table better, and have more hacker options to benefit from the repeaters.

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Couldn't agree more, we rarely use spec ops since it makes it way to easy to make  a good list out of something that shouldn't work optimally. You have a very cheap option to fill whatever hole/trade off you had to live with during list creation. 

Another interesting topic is the terrain on tables, I try to make my tables play like a "container board"/operation ice storm with added interiors but I have made them in different visual styles to make it interesting. Playing on the "wrong" table shouldn't decide the tournament, and if you have terrain effects they should be equal across tables. It gets strange if some tables have the terrain as a second opponent and some boards don't.

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FINALLY! I was already starving for a new episode. Is there any chance that you guys find the time to get back to your old schedule again?

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On 8/26/2016 at 8:09 AM, EmperorSaiStone said:

FINALLY! I was already starving for a new episode. Is there any chance that you guys find the time to get back to your old schedule again?

Yeah, I'm really hoping that we can.  Lately "life" has been getting in the way and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon(it just might affect a different one of us more than the others in the near future).  We are doing what we can, when we can and we'll see what we can do moving forward.


Vague I know, but right now it's the best I have unfortunately.

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Really enjoyed this one. It was like Sean just geeking out over different things for a few hours straight haha.

It works well to rotate who does the most of the speaking sometimes with the other two becoming the colour guys. Changes up the feel and keeps it fun.

Thanks for squeezing a new one out guys!

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Aaaaaaaaaaand were back!

Episode 15: Welcome To The Shitshow

Well, I didn’t think that we would actually do this, but we did.  We crammed five guys into my home office and recorded a podcast episode.

Today we had both Sean and Greg, who were joined by Tor, Jamie, and Brian.

It started with Sean totally messing up the intro song.  Also, because we had five people with us we had to break out some of the less-good microphones.  As such, Tor and Brian might be a little quiet from time to time, and I apologize for that.  After this, we will be returning to our usual 3-person format!

I’m not going to list out a timing breakdown, because frankly, it’ll take me time to do that and I am leaving for Iowa Incident very soon and would like to get this published before I leave.

We discuss a few topics:

  • Upcoming new releases
  • The new Limited Insertion optional ITS rule
  • Our local event, “The TERRAINIMENT” and what everyone played
  • Dropping out of games
  • Some of our favorite “tricks” in Infinity
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Super stoked to get a new episode! You guys are my favourite Infintiy podcast, shitshow or not. There are always such little gems of insight to be found in your ramblings...

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Great to hear you back! Much as I've enjoyed Joel's dry wit I think the new guys injected a whole fresh energy which was really cool to hear. Great thoughts and general chat as always, you guys always give me some new way of looking at something or trick to think about (like Greg's Kuang Shi trick, or reconsidering Patroclus). Thanks for making the effort to get back in the saddle!

 

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Hey guys, love the show. In the newest episode you guys talk about Objective rooms having to be "squared off".

Where exactly does it say that? From what I've read in the ITS pack, it just says place Center and it needs to cover an area of 8in x 8in.

I assume they mean that as long as the center of the room is in the center of the table, and it's a 8x8in square room, you're able to place at any angle.

If there are formal, solid rules somewhere that say it has to be squared off, could you point me in that direction. Thanks.

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Hey guys, love the show. In the newest episode you guys talk about Objective rooms having to be "squared off".

Where exactly does it say that? From what I've read in the ITS pack, it just says place Center and it needs to cover an area of 8in x 8in.

I assume they mean that as long as the center of the room is in the center of the table, and it's a 8x8in square room, you're able to place at any angle.

If there are formal, solid rules somewhere that say it has to be squared off, could you point me in that direction. Thanks.

Page 69 of the ITS 8 v1.1 Doc has maps of all the scenarios.

All objective rooms are square to the board on those maps.

Additionally, items like the panoplies are placed in corners of those rooms, so if they are rotated then they are placed incorrectly wirh regards to the map

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Cool last episode, very refreshing to catch a break from what has essentially become the "Yujing > ALL" podcast. We need more of these and less of those for sure :-P

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I listened to Ep. 26 The episode with no name... great podcast, as usual. The funny thing is you covered Morats v. generic Haqqislam and the same day I listened to the episode, I played Morats in Frontline with 12 point Spec Ops against @GentleSamurai, who played generic Haqqislam. This is not a particularly exciting or insightful report and the scenery was not great for the Haqq force, but I felt compelled to do a report because of the coincidence:

logo_602.png Morat Aggression Force
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png10  orden_impetuosa.png1
logo_11.pngDĀTURAZI Combi Rifle + Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 21)
logo_1.pngMORAT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_1.pngMORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
logo_1.pngMORAT K1 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
logo_1000.pngTreitak Spec-Ops (12 XP) (WIP:15, BTS:6, EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_8.pngSOGARAT AP HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 56)
logo_8.pngSOGARAT Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 57)
logo_22.pngKORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_17.pngQ-DRONE Plasma Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
logo_3.pngRODOK Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png1  
logo_19.pngR-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

logo_401.png Rainy Saturday V1
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.pngorden_irregular.png1  
logo_6.pngDJANBAZAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_31.pngHAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_43.pngFASID HMG + (Smoke and Normal) Light Grenade Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 53)
logo_33.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_1000.pngHUSAM Spec-Ops (12 XP) (PH:11, ARM:3, Engineer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Grenade / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_33.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_3.pngKHAWARIJ Lieutenant Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 31)
logo_24.pngODALISQUE Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
logo_1.pngGHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_1.pngGHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
logo_10.pngHUNZAKUT (Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
logo_12.pngFIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.pngorden_irregular.pngorden_impetuosa.png2
logo_40.pngMUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_40.pngMUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_11.pngTUAREG Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)

4.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

A big cross-shaped building divided the board in two halves. Everything that climbed onto that cross-shaped building died over the course of the game. There were towers/structures with cover on both corners of the Haqq side of the board. He placed a Ghulam FO (left side) and Djanbazan sniper (right side) in each tower.

I won the roll and took first turn. He reduced my Order Pool by two. I lost my poorly placed Daturazi immediately to his Djanbazan. I ran my Plasma Q-Drone down the left side and killed the Hunzakut and a Mutttawi'ah. The Q-Drone died to a Ghulam in a tower his his turn. On my first turn I also used Kornak and the two Sogarat on the right side and killed the Al-Fasid, broke the fireteam and put them in suppression fire (yes, minus the Feuerbach). He ended up chewing up that fireteam as I pushed it up the board slowly, lots of move and shoot, Kornak breaking out and using Assault. Considering how much damage I did initially, he managed to eventually kill Kornak, the HMG Sogarat, which got back up with its automedkit, and reduced the Feuerbach Sogarat to one wound. The right side of the board was crowded with units and there wasn't enough scenery, which helped my Fireteam. I spent almost all of my turn two and three using the Fireteam, with the exception of moving my R-Drone once and having it die, and killing the Fiday using a linked Vanguard after a Rodok died attempting to do that. By the beginning of his third turn, he was in Retreat. He drew Experimental Drug and achieved it by getting his Djanbazan up. I drew Extreme Prejudice and achieved it by a Sogarat putting down the Al'Hawwa. I won something like 5-1 (we accidentally played the last turn without him in retreat, so we can't really tell how it would have played out).

I guess what was notable about the game was that it was mainly about dealing with the Q-Drone on one side and the Fireteam on the other, with limited action involving a Rodok and Fiday dying in the middle of the board. Most of his orders involved reacting to the Kornak-Sogarat Haris. Since it was Frontline, I guess Haqq really had no choice but to engage the Fireteam.

Some of the episode was about handling Morats using Haqqislam (my over-simplicity is probably really irritating, especially by Remote Presence podcast standards, because everything is obviously so circumstantial but bear with me) so I thought I'd mention:

Khawarij, Taureg, Ghulam flash pulse, Al'Hawwa, Djanbazan, Muttaw'iah, Spec Ops slowly eroded the Fireteam in ARO and active turn. Ghulam flash pulse from the tower was very effective against the Sogarats (three successful stuns over the course of the game).

Fiday killed the Rodok with an ARO, but was killed by a linked Vanguard afterward.

Ghulam FO in the tower killed the Q-Drone in active turn using a Rifle.

Djanbazan killed the R-Drone and Daturazi, both in ARO.

Al'Hawwa in ARO Carbonited my super Spec Ops Hacker when I tried to Sucker Punch the Al'Hawwa, and my Spec Ops never got a chance to Reset.

-----

As an aside, I really like the Hungries and Raicho sculpts. I guess I'm in the minority.

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