IJW Wartrader

Yet Another Mission System (YAMS) 2nd Edition - alpha testing!

59 posts in this topic

Alright, about to play a game of this now, but don't know how useful as playtest it'll be.

 

In the interest of having it work with xp gain in our campaign, we're discarding a random public objective, bringing the possible score to 10, like in ITS

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"Play continues until the end of the fourth turn"

 

As in, turn 4, round 2. So each player gets 2 turns? Or is it a typo that should have been "Round 4", so 4 turns for each player? So far we're playing with 4 rounds.

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Yes, that's a typo it should be four Game Rounds.

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We, (against @Riquende ) played a game last night, 300 points, Tohaa vs PanOceania and played the whole lot (Battlefield conditions, Strategy Cards and Objective Cards).

Objective Cards: I quite liked the change to the pure tactical objective cards (removing the killing cards). It helps to change the balance of the game from an annihilation game of YAMS 1.0. It seemed to be a weird only have 8 cards, and drawing 6 though, so it seemed that we both had the same objectives.  

I liked the strategy cards, they add an interesting twist to the game. One thing I did notice though: the number of strategy cards to draw is mixed in with the "After Deployment Abilities" section. This makes that section really confusing.

As for the Battlefield Conditions, we played number 6 (Straight Deployment, no Exclusion Zone, Storm). The storm seemed to be really unbalanced favored PanO more strongly than Tohaa, making it difficult for me to get a foothold in the game. The Visibility changes means that if one player has an MSV Sniper in a good place on the battlefield, they can dominate the game. As the storm comes up in 8 of 20 Battlefield conditions, there is a pretty good chance of a storm, forcing you build an MSV and Multiterrain heavy list, or end up really struggling through the first turn of the game (as I did). Have you considered adding different weather conditions, ones that favour different factions?

We also have a couple of questions:

If I have the same private objective card as a public card, do I get 6 points, for scoring it? Can I even select it as a private objective?

When does the game end? At the end of 4 rounds, or when 1 player is defeated? The first means that the best strategy is to concentrate on removing your opponent (and ignoring the objectives) for the first 3 rounds of the game, and then mopping up unopposed at the end of the game. This should be clarified in the Game Length section.

I hope this helped.

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Yeah. I thought they were postive changes in all, and just need fleshing out a tad. We had a regular style deployment area with no exclusion zone, so can't comment on those bits.

I really like not having the civvie or crate (or at least not the exclusion areas around them). They generally caused a huge bubble where infiltrators etc couldn't go which affected some builds every game.

I think maybe too many mission cards are drawn given the size of the deck, and I'm not sure why you need 2 public missions - you could shuffle a deck, take the top card off one and make that a mission for both players, then have 3 'private' missions apiece. Or have a separate 'main mission' deck and then 'classifieds' which would be the current cards.

I thought as well that were was a bit too much going on with the strategy cards, though I like the cards themselves. 4 cards with 3 effects each meant I was thinking hard on which ones I should use where, and it almost felt like before/during/after deployment was a separate minigame, and our first turn started notably later than it usually would have done, which could be an issue on club nights with limited time. I'd try to simplify, either with fewer cards or just two options per card (and the option pairs need not be identical per card).

Alex has outlined the issue we had with the storm - my Nisse sniper became monstrous as he shot everyone to pieces through a poor visibility areas (we had some trees) laugng off attempts to deal with him. I didn't even get my Nisse HMG into play but it would have probably been a bloodbath, ARO crit notwithstanding. My Bulleteer, already a 'top tier' active turn model, was able to shrug off a lot of early AROs due to stacked modifiers (it had also been given multiterrain from a strategy card, so was an unholy unhittable terror rushing through the woods in the first turn).

More variety of environmental effects would be good. Maybe a dry, hot day, reducing PH for the first turn? Or a typically British overcast day causing mass ennui and WIP penalties?

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To expand on storm scenarios: it would be nice to have different "storms" like Riquende said.

One could even be a static storm that grants white noise for example. Only the fact that this would be possible balances out the storm low vis on whole table as one wouldn't bring too many MSVs since if the "white noise" comes out he'd be totally screwed.

Super heavy rain (the day before) would only increase mov difficulty on table or even change terrain types...I'm thinking asia monsoon here...everything at ground level would become acquatic terrain...

Exceedingly high winds would force a PH save like the dangerous terrain rules...

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Thanks for all the feedback!

On 1/19/2016, 8:59:49, ningu said:

It seemed to be a weird only have 8 cards, and drawing 6 though, so it seemed that we both had the same objectives.

Could you describe the issue further? There are currently 17 objective cards, so you should each be drawing 6 cards from 17, or if you split the deck you're each drawing from a smaller deck but none of your private objectives will be the same as the other's.

 

On 1/19/2016, 8:59:49, ningu said:

If I have the same private objective card as a public card, do I get 6 points, for scoring it? Can I even select it as a private objective?

That must be another typo by me, you're supposed to redraw any card that matches a public objective.

 

On 1/19/2016, 3:19:32, Riquende said:

I thought as well that were was a bit too much going on with the strategy cards, though I like the cards themselves. 4 cards with 3 effects each meant I was thinking hard on which ones I should use where, and it almost felt like before/during/after deployment was a separate minigame, and our first turn started notably later than it usually would have done, which could be an issue on club nights with limited time. I'd try to simplify, either with fewer cards or just two options per card (and the option pairs need not be identical per card).

Aye. They do get much faster with time as there are only so many combinations, but they could still do with simplifying further. Not keeping the option pairs the same gets messy as you then increase the number of possible card combinations and therefore make them harder to keep track of - plus each ability on a card needs to be one that's activated at the same time.

 

Battlefield Conditions - the first change to make to this is to make it a separate roll for each condition, that gives me a lot more leeway in terms of allocating probabilities for each condition. 

 

Environment - more variety is definitely needed. White Noise is very unlikely to happen on a table-wide basis because it's too binary - the Storm equivalent would be making the whole table a Zero Visibility Zone! However I think a Nimbus Storm (-3 BS, Reflective, Saturation Zone, no MOV difficulty, -3 for Combat Jump) would be a good starting point as a second weather effect.

 

Game Length - I'm being indecisive on this one, but I'm considering making it another random Battlefield Condition for game length and end-game conditions, if just to have Sudden Death Mode as one of the options.

 

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Yep you're right... Nimbus thing is much better that white noise...

Sent from my PULP FAB 4G using Tapatalk

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33 minutes ago, IJW Wartrader said:

Could you describe the issue further? There are currently 17 objective cards, so you should each be drawing 6 cards from 17, or if you split the deck you're each drawing from a smaller deck but none of your private objectives will be the same as the other's.

Hmm.... maybe I missed some of the cards when I was printing them. I'm sure I only had 8 (and yes, there are 17 in the pack). I'll have to check this later.

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First up, great work and thanks so much for this update! Played a bit with these today.  I will say that we did not use the battlefield conditions or special deployment zones at all. I really wanted to test out the objectives and strategy cards, before adding in the noise (pardon the term) of mucking with the playing field. 

Objective cards:

I do not miss prizefighter or kill the LT. Good cuts. My preference would be to replace kill the boffin with use the boffin, and have use the boffin turn into kill the boffin if there is no boffin in your list, then turn into prize fighter if no one has a boffin. I hope that makes sense.

The ATL meta had also come up with the shared cards variant, so I'm glad to see this made 'official'. I do miss Assess and Ambush? (the one that made your opponent reveal a card and gave you points if you stopped it) I understand the challenges in scoring Assess, but it was an interesting objective and worth the effort to get it back in the deck, I think. Great improvement to Catch the Pigeon. 

Consoles

What is the intended size for these? We used S3, since we interpreted 2/3 to meant either 2 or 3. 

Flags

Love the new Flag mechanic. I strongly encourage you to leave the DZ bubble in, for reasons I'll mention later. Same question about Silhouette for flags as for consoles. We used S3. 

Strategy Cards

I too thought 4 was too many, but the strategy cards are basically done with before the game starts, so the play-drag was minimal. Is it intended that multiple draws of the same card can be used for the same effect? For instance, if I draw Emergency Reserves 3 times, can I hold 4 models in Reserve? I also recommend making it explicit which HVT can be moved. We assumed the card could be used to move either HVT. 

The objective roll mod from Intelligence Report feels weak compared to the other abilities. Recommend making this playable after a failed roll to make it a success if it fails within 3 of the target. Or perhaps play the card and gain command token rerolls for 1 order. 

The infiltration skill bonus is ... powerful. The impact on inferior infiltration is all risk reduction and that's fine, but granting superior infiltration to a prowler or daofei is enormous. Recommend replacing this with 'Allow a trooper that fails an infiltration roll to be deployed anywhere in the friendly deployment zone instead of on the table edge'. Still a bonus, but one that encourages you to infiltrate over the line without impacting how likely you are to succeed at it. (this slightly contradicts my overall thoughts below, but I feel really strongly that allowing a Dao Fei a 36" deployment zone on a 17 or less is too good.)

Sequence

We made lists from scratch after drawing all our cards, though we declared a faction to each other before making the lists. 

Overall thoughts

My experience was that all the power in this version belongs to the player who goes second. 12 of the 17 objectives score at the end of the game, deployment of 2 of the consoles and second play on all the cards belongs to the second player, and of course the right to take 2 orders from the first player with a command token. That's a lot of power. This is not a criticism, but I am making an argument that the deployment bubble of the flag should stay in.  

Of course the power of the first turn in Infinity is still huge! But this is why I think the DZ extension rule of the flag is brilliant. It's an alpha strike boost to be sure, but the Alpha is the only thing the first player has and there's nothing wrong with him being encouraged to use it. The DZ bubble helps the second player get strong ARO pieces that don't infiltrate into positions just outside his DZ as well, so the benefit isn't purely for the first player. Plus, it's a fun rule. Seriously, I've described it to several people and every one of them has smiled in response to it. 

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Thanks, I'll go through the feedback in more detail later!

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Played my first game of this yesterday, here's the full batrep link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjgudwR6U78

I found it quite powerful being able to move a console 4" and then again with another copy of the card! Dragging that console all the way around the corner where I could safely press it's buttons was pretty cool. Definitely preferring the 4-rounds system over the 3-round standard.

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I haven't actually played it yet but I already like it a lot. Had a dumbish question though, each card is normally worth 2 OP right? Some of the cards don't say how much they're worth, everything else is clear though, and thank you for the new version, I'm quite excited about it. :)

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We just finished up a league using YAMS 2e, it was a blast. We did add the following caveats for ease of use/or it wasn't quite clear in the rules.

1) HVTs have 360 visors so nobody could prevent getting Intimidation by sitting someone in the corner

2) In cases of split deployment, the person who got Deployment for Initiative chose which table side was split or clustered. This did give deployment people considerable power. 

Other than that, we played it exactly as written. Our group greatly appreciated the removal of so many kill cards in favor of other objectives. It did facilitate more bold movement and dynamic tactics. There were a lot of moving parts in between the strategy cards, the flag, and the board conditions, but in practice it combined together to make a relatively smooth experience.

The flag no longer being a camo token as well as baggage and DZ extender was a brilliant move. It does make it a tangible asset in the game, providing a lot of flexibility. I did find myself using it more to get around some of the more restrictive board conditions, however. I'm not sure if that was entirely as intended.

On the note of baggage, we did see a few shenanigans of minelayers hopping back and forth between the flag tossing mines everywhere. This did come into player primarily in a players DZ as the center line objectives were too far up for it to be a major influence.

The relative strength of the deployment cards seems a little odd though. The Suppression Fire option of "They are in the Walls" was super situational and kind of costly, but is only balanced by the fact that second option is so good. Having the four cards each player did lead a sort of equilibrium wherein it was unlikely an objective you wanted waltzed more than 4" from where it was currently deployed.

The 4 turns really let Doctors and Engineers enough breathing room to repair stuff as opposed to rushing things forward and counting off acceptable losses. A model you spent 2 orders to bring back could contribute 2 or more turns worth of orders over the course of the game. 

I kind of disagree with Locksmith on 2nd Player holding a lot of power. With the removal of the ITS standard game condition of a player in retreat ending the game on their turn, the 2nd player has to survive 4 whole turns of pounding by their opponent. 4 Turns of stuff that you usually don't see in ITS because they don't facilitate the specialist game. If they are in retreat at the bottom of turn three or four, they are unlikely to secure contestable objectives, which is what happened in my last game. If 2nd player plays super conservatively and doesn't test their opponent, 1st player can outmanuever them and lock down the objectives in such a way that a bottom of turn 4 grab incredibly dicey. 

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Thanks again for all the feedback. 

I've been slow responding as I'm not happy with the Strategy Cards. The original idea was that they would have a bigger impact on Deployment, for example using different cards might change the whole structure of the Deployment Phase, or being able to use them up them to alter the Battlefield Conditions. At the moment they feel too tacked-on, so I'm going to have to rethink them from scratch.

In the next few weeks I'm hoping to get out a new test version with the Strategy Cards removed and tighter wording on the Objective Cards, plus a chart for rolling up Battlefield Conditions individually, so roll once for DZs, once for Exclusion Zones, once for Weather. I'll also add in 8" and 16" DZs a la Biotechvore and Decapitation, and a Nimbus Storm to the Weather column.

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Hi, I have some issues downloading the pdf (in fact none of the link for pdf of this site seems to be working). I wish I was able to see this Yams with my own eyes...

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Montreal loves YAMS. It was our default system before ITS Missions came out. 
Seems I missed the 2.0 update. Can't wait to try the 2.1 version !

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Hi all, where is the latest link to this, the one in the OP doesn't seem to work?

And, as these are not tournament games, are there a game options to play until tabled and to play on 6x4 tables?

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On 21/12/2015 at 11:33 PM, IJW Wartrader said:

WHAT'S NEXT?

Download the PDF, have a read through, play a game or two, then come back and give me feedback.

YAMS 2 alpha 3.pdf

I get this when I try to download it:

This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below:

<Error>

<Code>PermanentRedirect</Code>

<Message>The bucket you are attempting to access must be addressed using the specified endpoint. Please send all future requests to this endpoint.</Message>

<Bucket>assets.infinitytheforums.com</Bucket>

<Endpoint>assets.infinitytheforums.com.s3.amazonaws.com</Endpoint>

<RequestId>5F32468380DFA955</RequestId>

<HostId>gsMOqv3SobXp2RfYnOTykFMgNWDfoadvxF7yCyEgBDDbEuOPgWS2WZ7mpbM+q6UrEY+g4jKxrkY=</HostId>

</Error>

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On 25/01/2016 at 9:04 PM, IJW Wartrader said:

Thanks, I'll go through the feedback in more detail later!

Could you give us a new link?

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On 30.8.2016 at 4:24 AM, Lone_Pathfinder said:

Could you give us a new link?

That would be really cool as I definitely want to try your YAMS2.0

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Love YAMS.  So far I feel 1.1 was the best, but I'll try the new version as well.  

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Once I have WIFI again I'll upload it to my own server and post the link here, but that's likely to be after the weekend.

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