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BaleWolf

When do you state the turn order?

Question

During a tournament I ran into something that I never thought of. When do you state if you are taking first or second turn? From my understanding you would state which turn you pick before your opponent states which deployment and where, as the rules list them as; Initiative Roll, Keeping Initiative, Keeping Deployment, and then Deployment Phase. My opponent argued that he could say which turn he could take after the deployment of models, as it doesn't state which order, it just has them listed that way. What would you go with, as I see many battle reports one player will pick which side to deploy and the order, and then the other opponent states the turn sequence.

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Page 26.

Deployment phase "This phase comes after the initiative roll, once the initiative and deployment have been chosen..."

You choose and declare prior to the deployment of any models.

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We've always played it as whichever the winner of the WIP roll chooses must be completed first.

So if I win the WIP role and I choose deployment, I must choose which side to deploy from and the deployment order before you choose the turn order.

Conversely, if I win the WIP role and I choose initiative, I would choose to go first or second before deployment sides/order are determined.

Then once both choices are made, we begin the deployment phase of setup. 

 

We discussed this at length, and based it on two things:

1) The initiative and deployment section of the rulebook states that the winner of the roll 'keeps initiative' or 'keeps deployment' as a response to the roll, so our thinking was that the fallout from that roll should be decided before progressing in the setup instructions (i.e. passing the other choice to your opponent.)

2) The actual deployment rules/instructions are listed as a separate section after the WIP roll is mentioned, indicating to us that this phase should always occur after the FtF WIP roll and ensuing choices are made.

 

Candidly, I think the guy you were playing was being a bit of a twat. Not knowing the turn order before deploying would be an incredible disadvantage, and heavily skew the desirability of choices towards turn order.

 

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Thanks guys. That makes a lot of sense Condoneos, backed up by the order of the book as well. Nice.

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I know it's not 100% what you were asking, but I wanted to add this into the mix.

  • Players make face-to-face rolls with their LTs Willpower until there is a winner.
  • The winner chooses between Keeping Initiative and Keeping Deployment.
  • The winner makes all decisions related to that option.
  • The loser gets the remaining option.
  • The loser makes all decisions related to the remaining option.

 

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So...

If I win and choose to Keep Deployment I say who will deploy first and where and then the other player can say who will get the Initiative.
If I win and choose to Keep Initiative I say who will start first and then the other player choose who will deploy and where.

Not sure about that. I would say if I win and whatever choice I pick, the other player should reveal his choice first.

If I win and choose to Keep Deployment the other player have to say if she wants to start first or not before I choose who will deploy where.
If I win and choose to Keep Initiative the other player choose who to deploy first and where and then I choose who will start first.

I won the roll after all. Then perhaps it doesn't make that much of a different in the end, haven't played enough games to really tell.

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2 hours ago, MAlgol said:

So...

If I win and choose to Keep Deployment I say who will deploy first and where and then the other player can say who will get the Initiative.
If I win and choose to Keep Initiative I say who will start first and then the other player choose who will deploy and where.

Not sure about that. I would say if I win and whatever choice I pick, the other player should reveal his choice first.

If I win and choose to Keep Deployment the other player have to say if she wants to start first or not before I choose who will deploy where.
If I win and choose to Keep Initiative the other player choose who to deploy first and where and then I choose who will start first.

I won the roll after all. Then perhaps it doesn't make that much of a different in the end, haven't played enough games to really tell.

On what basis do you get to wait on your opponent. They could equally say no, you should say first and then you can just enter into a waiting match to see who cares less to make the appropriate decision. 

Any sort of delay on deciding the relative information to "keeping deployment" or "keeping initiative" just complicates the whole process for very little tangible benefit.

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This is a thread from 2015, I'm fairly certain we've had official confirmation that the pertinent choices must be made immediately with no waiting games, though it doesn't seem to have made it to FAQ

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7 hours ago, Mahtamori said:

This is a thread from 2015, I'm fairly certain we've had official confirmation that the pertinent choices must be made immediately with no waiting games, though it doesn't seem to have made it to FAQ

Haha.. I didn't notice. I saw it as bold and in Topics or something or I wouldn't have opened it up. Strange. =)

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On 10/10/2017 at 8:43 AM, Mahtamori said:

it doesn't seem to have made it to FAQ

HNNNNNNG~

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I ha a friend ask if this was legal a few weeks ago after seeing it in a podcast. Search didn't find this thread so I started a new one (got the same answer) and now this one jumps back to the top, weird.

Robert

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