Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
SackOfOwls

Tips for dealing with Aleph

29 posts in this topic

I constantly have trouble going up against my friends Aleph armies. It feels like I just never have the tools to deal with all the TO models and tough NWI Asuras. We tend to play ITS missions, but we aren't going to tournaments or anything, So I guess I simply have trouble moving around the board with TO snipers an hackers to deal with plus the MSV of his Asura and/or Deva.

 

What can I do/use to make sure I hit these guys in the first place and when I do make sure they go down?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fidays can be very effective against Aleph; none of their fancy tools helps with revealing an impersonator. Remember in particular that the Fiday has a knife, and knives have Shock, so they negate Valor: No Wound Incapacitation, which lots of Aleph models have. The really obnoxius doctor/engineer with NWI that Aleph has is a particularly great Fiday target; hackers and snipers are other things worth prioritizing.

Naffatûn have a BTS save, not to mention flamethrowers, so they are good against all the ODD and stuff that Aleph has. So too, are Djanbazan, for obvious reasons. The Djanbazan sniper in particular is excellent because snipers rifles, too, have Shock, so again they negate the common Aleph NWI.

Continuing on the NWI theme; Viral ammo kills anything. The Muyib with viral mines is particularly good, but mines in general are useful; the Hunzakut is absoutely amazing (because he has both mines and repeaters), but e/maulers can also be a threath for Aleph, so consider the very cheap, airdropped Bashi Bazouk with e/maulers.Note that there's a Ghulam profile that gets both e/maulers and repeaters. This is a good profile; he can put e/maulers in your deployment zone to protect somewhat against Aleph airdrops, and generally be a nuisance.

Ghazi Mutawiah too are very good against Aleph, because they can Isolate extremely expensive Aleph models with their Jammers and E/Marats, and use their chain rifles on ODD models.

Don't forget that cheap Haqqislam models like the Hunzakut and the Ghulam benefit greatly from being Forward Observers, as this lets them use their high WIP stat for ARO rolls with the Flash pulse that FO gets them. Flash pulse is another thing that expensive Aleph models hate. 

Lastly, Haqqislam has good hackers. I've found that the Ragik Hacker with this Combat Jump is particularly useful, drop him down behind enemy lines and start locking down robots and HIs. Don't forget that hacking can also disrupt comms equipment, which includes the abilities of the Proxies that Aleph has, and make expensive models Isolated. A Hassassin Barid Hacker as your lieutenant is a good model to anchor your force around, but he's a very obvious choice for lieutenant so you might just use his LI order straight away on making a Controlled Jump for the Ragik Hacker. In synergy with repeaters from a Hunzakut, and Ragik+Barid can be nasty. Remember though that hacking dosen't kill, and can often be easily reset; whenever you immobilise something, you need to use whatever opportunity that provides you.

All this being said, I -still- feel that Aleph is a particularly though army for Haqqislam to beat. I've very seldom won against them, despite all my thinking about how to do it, and if I face Steel Phalanx in particular, I might just give up as I've never ever beaten them. Maybe I'm just better at Theoryinfinity than real Infinity, what do I know.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good advice from Natsymir. 

Djazban sniper and Mutts have been my mvps against Aleph typically. The sniper threatens everything except Phoenix and comes back from the grave. The Mutts are the Asura's worst enemy and also quite mean to link teams where the jammer can sometimes be the better option. Mines are quite annoying for everything they have except the named characters, which could care less and plow right through them. For Achilles, you can pray or set up complex hacking traps with repeaters, but there is little to do save sacrificing some units (hopefully a Naffatun) and spending many orders on shooting.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suffered another huge loss versus Aleph today, but it wasn't as humiliating as others have been; I did put up a good fight, using some of the tools and tricks people have talked about in this thread. It was the Supremacy scenario, 300 pts.

Some highlights:

I used Hussein al-Djabel, but failed my roll to deploy in Aleph's deployment zone. Luckily, I scattered so that I ended up basically face to face with an isolated Thorakitai behind a window. And I had first turn! So I shotgun blasted the Thorakitai; he survived, but I won the Face to Face roll and used my movement to vault in through the window and move into base contact. With my next order, I vivisected him with the viral glove, and rushed on towards Hussein al-Djabels favorite target - the NWI Doctor/Engineer whatsherface. Unfortunately, I failed my special dodge versus her ARO, and got shot down before reaching her. In hindsight, I should've shotgun blasted her too; it'd given me better odds than the dodge.

I managed to get a Ghazi Mutawwiah in range to E/Marat Achilles. He passed his dodge roll, however, and now disaster struck - I had put my Ghazis in too small a combat group and had no orders left. This was a terrible tragedy, as the E/Marat is Achilles' worst nightmare (he have to pass a roll versus 13 using half- his BTS or become Isolated -and- Immobilised 2. Dear God in heaven).

I set up a complex hacking trap to contain Achilles. He was entrenched behind cover in a building, making him an enormous pain in the ass. I snuck out with my Barid and shot a marker on the wall just in front of Achilles, but outside his LoF. The Barid was shot down, but no matter - I had set it up so that he would become Unconscious in total cover, where I had a doctor positioned to heal him. Using this repeater, my Ragik and my Barid could rain hacking attacks over Achilles and immobilised him three times over, but it was all in vain - I couldn't follow up on it with anything significant (I did try to shoot him with my HMG Janissary, but rolled 16+ on all four dice and would've neded like 5 or less...God ODD+cover is a pain) and Achilles was already in the perfect position to hold the quarter he needed to hold. There was no need for him to take actions and provoke hacking AROs. He just stood there and ruined my day. Had I been able to lock him down earlier, I should've popped smoke and run over there with a naffatûn (and I had no naffatûn) or some ghazis (and I had no more ghazis). So that was a failure through and through.

Things I'll take with me from this game:

- Ghazi Mutawwiahs are the best. Their E/Marat in particular is a mortal threat to Aleph.
- I have to bring Naffatûns.
- If you can spare the points, use Hussein al-Djabel instead of a regular Fiday (or in conjunction with one). His slightly higher PH, Martial arts lvl 4 and Viral glove are golden against Aleph.
- Bring more than one sniper, to shock kill all those NWI dudes.
- Shotguns works wonders against all those pesky airdropped bots with mimetism etc.
- Close up, in active turn, it's almost always better to shotgun blast than to dodge.
- Remember, remember that Proxies can be hacked.
- God I hate Achilles. I'm tempted to table flip next time I see him.



 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Natsymir said:

I suffered another huge loss versus Aleph today, but it wasn't as humiliating as others have been; I did put up a good fight, using some of the tools and tricks people have talked about in this thread. It was the Supremacy scenario, 300 pts.

Some highlights:

I used Hussein al-Djabel, but failed my roll to deploy in Aleph's deployment zone. Luckily, I scattered so that I ended up basically face to face with an isolated Thorakitai behind a window. And I had first turn! So I shotgun blasted the Thorakitai; he survived, but I won the Face to Face roll and used my movement to vault in through the window and move into base contact. With my next order, I vivisected him with the viral glove, and rushed on towards Hussein al-Djabels favorite target - the NWI Doctor/Engineer whatsherface. Unfortunately, I failed my special dodge versus her ARO, and got shot down before reaching her. In hindsight, I should've shotgun blasted her too; it'd given me better odds than the dodge.

I managed to get a Ghazi Mutawwiah in range to E/Marat Achilles. He passed his dodge roll, however, and now disaster struck - I had put my Ghazis in too small a combat group and had no orders left. This was a terrible tragedy, as the E/Marat is Achilles' worst nightmare (he have to pass a roll versus 13 using half- his BTS or become Isolated -and- Immobilised 2. Dear God in heaven).

I set up a complex hacking trap to contain Achilles. He was entrenched behind cover in a building, making him an enormous pain in the ass. I snuck out with my Barid and shot a marker on the wall just in front of Achilles, but outside his LoF. The Barid was shot down, but no matter - I had set it up so that he would become Unconscious in total cover, where I had a doctor positioned to heal him. Using this repeater, my Ragik and my Barid could rain hacking attacks over Achilles and immobilised him three times over, but it was all in vain - I couldn't follow up on it with anything significant (I did try to shoot him with my HMG Janissary, but rolled 16+ on all four dice and would've neded like 5 or less...God ODD+cover is a pain) and Achilles was already in the perfect position to hold the quarter he needed to hold. There was no need for him to take actions and provoke hacking AROs. He just stood there and ruined my day. Had I been able to lock him down earlier, I should've popped smoke and run over there with a naffatûn (and I had no naffatûn) or some ghazis (and I had no more ghazis). So that was a failure through and through.

Things I'll take with me from this game:

- Ghazi Mutawwiahs are the best. Their E/Marat in particular is a mortal threat to Aleph.
- I have to bring Naffatûns.
- If you can spare the points, use Hussein al-Djabel instead of a regular Fiday (or in conjunction with one). His slightly higher PH, Martial arts lvl 4 and Viral glove are golden against Aleph.
- Bring more than one sniper, to shock kill all those NWI dudes.
- Shotguns works wonders against all those pesky airdropped bots with mimetism etc.
- Close up, in active turn, it's almost always better to shotgun blast than to dodge.
- Remember, remember that Proxies can be hacked.
- God I hate Achilles. I'm tempted to table flip next time I see him.



 

I won a tournament Saturday with my QK. I then took the Achilles prize and gave it to my Aleph opponent. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ZombieCrab said:

I won a tournament Saturday with my QK. I then took the Achilles prize and gave it to my Aleph opponent. 

That was a brave, almost masochistic, thing to doo. I would've just hidden it away somewhere where no Aleph player would find it ^_^

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Natsymir said:

That was a brave, almost masochistic, thing to doo. I would've just hidden it away somewhere where no Aleph player would find it ^_^

I had to kill a Cutter in the first round. If I can do that I can kill him :)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

logo_43.png Qapu Khalqi
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

Group 1 sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png 10 orden_irregular.png0 orden_impetuosa.png0
logo_13.png SCARFACE 2 Mk12, Panzerfaust / CCW. (1.5 | 47)
img%7Boption%7Dhttp://www.infinitythegame.com/army/logosweb/_43/logo_13_2.png] SCARFACE Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0)
img%7Boption%7Dhttp://www.infinitythegame.com/army/logosweb/_43/logo_13_3.png] CORDELIA TURNER Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (17)
logo_9.png JANISSARY Akbar Doctor (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (41)
logo_22.png NASMAT Electric Pulse. (3)
logo_18.png RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (16)
logo_10.png HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_12.png SHOCK Combi Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, CCW. (20)
logo_12.png SHOCK Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 25)
logo_12.png SHOCK Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 23)
logo_4.png HAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (17)
logo_4.png HAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (17)

Group 2 sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png4 orden_irregular.png0 orden_impetuosa.png0
logo_1.png GHULAM Hacker (Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20)
logo_1.png GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (12)
logo_21.png FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (8)
logo_23.png KAMEEL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (8)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open with Army 5

this is what I have been playing with lately. It is has been a lot of fun and it has a tool box of things seeing as it has every single type of specialist and 3 different FtF winners vs corner guard type units. Despite the lack of long range weapons I have never suffered being outranged  because the X-visors and flash pulses really help. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the write-up! Sounds like you had some good tactics, but the dice gods didn't favor you too well. Smoke is great against Achilles as msv is the one thing he doesn't have. Also, once you have him trapped with hackers/repeaters, spotlight can significantly help your shooting go through, especially if you have grenade launcher and don't forget brain blast from the Barid. And I always bring a Naffatun because they are the perfect cheerleader; one that can swing a battle if needed.

Not sure how exactly you were playing, but Fidays do not disperse. If you fail the wip roll, you have to deploy on a table edge in your own deployment, not in impersonation mode. This can be a real bummer. Of course, you only need to attempt the wip roll if you try to deploy him within your opponent's deployment zone. Anywhere else is a freebie.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, FutwahJones said:

Thanks for the write-up! Sounds like you had some good tactics, but the dice gods didn't favor you too well. Smoke is great against Achilles as msv is the one thing he doesn't have. Also, once you have him trapped with hackers/repeaters, spotlight can significantly help your shooting go through, especially if you have grenade launcher and don't forget brain blast from the Barid. And I always bring a Naffatun because they are the perfect cheerleader; one that can swing a battle if needed.

Not sure how exactly you were playing, but Fidays do not disperse. If you fail the wip roll, you have to deploy on a table edge in your own deployment, not in impersonation mode. This can be a real bummer. Of course, you only need to attempt the wip roll if you try to deploy him within your opponent's deployment zone. Anywhere else is a freebie.

Fidays absolutely disperse, so you're the one who's playing it wrong. Page 80 of the rulebook.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, FutwahJones said:

Thanks for the write-up! Sounds like you had some good tactics, but the dice gods didn't favor you too well. Smoke is great against Achilles as msv is the one thing he doesn't have. Also, once you have him trapped with hackers/repeaters, spotlight can significantly help your shooting go through, especially if you have grenade launcher and don't forget brain blast from the Barid. And I always bring a Naffatun because they are the perfect cheerleader; one that can swing a battle if needed.

Achilles is a  hacker now?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Legrasse said:

Fidays absolutely disperse, so you're the one who's playing it wrong. Page 80 of the rulebook.

Well, damn, I've been doing that wrong too - and I typically deploy Fiday in pairs if not trios... I've been going straight to "inside Deployment Zone in base contact with one of the borders of the game table" instead of Dispersing.

http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Impersonation

Impersonation: Failing a Deployment Roll.

If the user fails his WIP Roll, he is penalized with a Dispersion Roll. Place the center of the Circular Template over the center of the deployed user's base.

If the Dispersion takes the user outside the game table, or anywhere he cannot deploy, place him inside your own Deployment Zone in base contact with one of the borders of the game table.

Additionally, if the user fails his Deployment Roll, he loses the option to deploy in the Impersonation-1 state, must deploy as a figure and not a Marker, and loses any Deployable Weapons and/or Equipment deployed alongside him.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Wirelizard said:

Well, damn, I've been doing that wrong too - and I typically deploy Fiday in pairs if not trios... I've been going straight to "inside Deployment Zone in base contact with one of the borders of the game table" instead of Dispersing.

http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Impersonation

Impersonation: Failing a Deployment Roll.

If the user fails his WIP Roll, he is penalized with a Dispersion Roll. Place the center of the Circular Template over the center of the deployed user's base.

If the Dispersion takes the user outside the game table, or anywhere he cannot deploy, place him inside your own Deployment Zone in base contact with one of the borders of the game table.

Additionally, if the user fails his Deployment Roll, he loses the option to deploy in the Impersonation-1 state, must deploy as a figure and not a Marker, and loses any Deployable Weapons and/or Equipment deployed alongside him.

I too, realized this quite recently, and it's been a game changer in how I play my Fiday (I love them even more now). However, it's also led me to think that, if you have a list with 2+ Fidays and you want to deploy them in the enemy deployment zone, it might be a good idea to always choose Seize Initiative if you can, because having first turn means that even if your Fidays disperse, chances are you'll have the ability to do something useful with them before they die.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be pretty careful engaging with a Fiday. Fidays, even Al-Djabel, are proficient martial artists, but not elite ones. Most of Steel Phalanx are equally good, making it a bad match-up for the Fiday (you don't want equal odds, you want overwhelming ones). The minelayer Fiday might be better just boxing them in and not actually exposing himself (by using smoke to lay the mines without getting hit). Mines are relatively easy to dodge, but they're still scary because they ignore the ODD and are shock.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. A Fiday is matched or bested by most Steel Phalanx dudes in melee, and his shotgun simply equalized with ODD. I think taking out a straggler Agema or bot then placing him in Suppression is a pretty annoying use for him. Really though, I think I'd rather just take a Tuareg or Ragik as a forward element instead.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What helps a Fiday win in combat against Steel Phalanx is the additional -6 MOD for Surprise Attack. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good point, though I don't know if having it in the first round of combat once, maybe twice a game is worth it. There are so many tough targets, especially ones with friends in Enomotarchos.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you can still take a Fiday with AP Mines. No NWI / Dogged troop is going to like that. 

Plus don't send you Fiday head to head against targets that match him. What's the point? Use him to get rid of support troops - Doctors, Engineers, Netrods. Remember that apart form CCW, Fiday packs a Knife, which is Silent & Shock. If there's no Asura, Deva, Marut or Agema within LOS, you can just drop smoke and enter it with a knife. I used this trick to get rid of a Sophotect to deny my opponent a chance of repairing his Marut Lt. Just before I sent a Ghazi Muttawi'ah after that Marut.

E/M attacks are a good way to get rid of these big and scary monsters in HI armors. Especially if there's no Engineer to sort them out. Ghazi excel in that. Flamethrowers aren't bad either, though they excel rather in dealing with ODD or TO Camo.

An Assault Hacker can also put that type of targets into Oblivion. Last time I faced Achilles, I sacrificed an al'Hawwa to get that done (basically, had no Orders left to get him out once he finally succeeded), but Mr. Asshole stopped being a factor in that game.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually had a succesful game last week playing Frontline. Tarik and a Rifle Lasiq went up one flank together to take out an Asura Hacker, Dakini Tacbot, and Devabot.

He had a TR bot and Asura with a spitfire, and one of the camo snipers on a roof (I forget which) on the other side of the board. I couldn't dislodge the sniper until the last turn when I got my own Djan sniper in place. Never got much done against the Asura or TR bot, but they couldn't get forward either, so I ended up winning by a few points.

Edited to add the list I used:

 

logo_41.png Haqqislam
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

Group 1 sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png 5 orden_irregular.png3 orden_impetuosa.png2
logo_6.png DJANBAZAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_6.png DJANBAZAN Hacker (Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)
logo_10.png HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
logo_1.png GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (16)
logo_33.png NASMAT Electric Pulse. (3)
logo_28.png LASIQ Viral Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (26)
logo_27.png MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (23)
logo_40.png MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer / Pistol, Knife. (5)
logo_40.png MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer / Pistol, Knife. (5)

Group 2 sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png4 orden_irregular.png0 orden_impetuosa.png0
logo_32.png FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Contender / Pistol, Knife. (31)
logo_16.png SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
logo_28.png LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
logo_19.png TARIK MANSURI Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 56)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open with Army 5

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Errhile said:

But you can still take a Fiday with AP Mines. No NWI / Dogged troop is going to like that. 

Plus don't send you Fiday head to head against targets that match him. What's the point? Use him to get rid of support troops - Doctors, Engineers, Netrods. Remember that apart form CCW, Fiday packs a Knife, which is Silent & Shock. If there's no Asura, Deva, Marut or Agema within LOS, you can just drop smoke and enter it with a knife. I used this trick to get rid of a Sophotect to deny my opponent a chance of repairing his Marut Lt. Just before I sent a Ghazi Muttawi'ah after that Marut.

E/M attacks are a good way to get rid of these big and scary monsters in HI armors. Especially if there's no Engineer to sort them out. Ghazi excel in that. Flamethrowers aren't bad either, though they excel rather in dealing with ODD or TO Camo.

An Assault Hacker can also put that type of targets into Oblivion. Last time I faced Achilles, I sacrificed an al'Hawwa to get that done (basically, had no Orders left to get him out once he finally succeeded), but Mr. Asshole stopped being a factor in that game.

 

1. Mines - yes, though SP in general has elevated, Ariadna-level PH on their guys, especially ones with NW/Dogged

2. Yes, its true you have to be judicious in target selection. And, of course if you drop smoke first, you'll lose your Surprise Attack, which is tough sell versus SP in particular.

3. Good call on E/M and hacking. Hector is going to be a pain in that department though.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, vorthain said:

 

1. Mines - yes, though SP in general has elevated, Ariadna-level PH on their guys, especially ones with NW/Dogged

2. Yes, its true you have to be judicious in target selection. And, of course if you drop smoke first, you'll lose your Surprise Attack, which is tough sell versus SP in particular.

3. Good call on E/M and hacking. Hector is going to be a pain in that department though.

Can't have it all, can I? ;)

Though I'm afraid you are wrong about Surprise Attack. Approachong in smoke, a Stealth-capable model is apporaching unseen (barring MSV L2+ of course) thus still entitled to Surprise Attack.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like others have pointed out, the point of using a Fiday is -not- going up against Myrmidons or Achilles or somesuch, but killing off support units, order monkeys, snipers and specialists (the Sophotect being the best possible target).

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Errhile said:

Can't have it all, can I? ;)

Though I'm afraid you are wrong about Surprise Attack. Approachong in smoke, a Stealth-capable model is apporaching unseen (barring MSV L2+ of course) thus still entitled to Surprise Attack.

Absolutely not! Surprise Attack or Surprise Shot require the trooper to start the Order in a marker state. The Fiday would have to reimpersonate first. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/27/2016, 7:27:13, IJW Wartrader said:

What helps a Fiday win in combat against Steel Phalanx is the additional -6 MOD for Surprise Attack. 

Except for many of em negate it thanks to SSL2 in a 4 person fireteam :( Especially Machaon and Phoenix, the double cheesy duo lol

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0