Gibbert

Shikami auto include?

77 posts in this topic

Is the new Shikami that is coming going to be one of those units that is an auto include in many of your lists, especially JSA? 

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Good question. Not sure in generic, I will definetly have to test him out when hsn 3 arrives. It is expensive, but might sometimes take the role of units such as shang ji (or some other midfield specialist), mainly due to it's mobility and survivability (ODD) .

In JSA, he might turn into my primary attack unit, with support of a haramaki+domaru link.

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I was thinking of running 2 as a duo in JSA with some smoke support like Yojimbo or Saito Tōgan and just cause some general mischief with them.

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Probably not in vanilla for me, but that's more because I like an all Chinese themed force. If it's a really sweet model though I might give it a try as the profile looks pretty insane.

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I thought so at first, but then I found out Karakuri get Haris and dogged. So no.

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Don't forget domaru duo, spitfire and chain rifle for pretty much the same points

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I was thinking that too, but the Shikami seem so much more mobile, tbf, you can get both duos in the same list if you wanted to, or have two different lists, with one of the duos in each so you can change list depending on the scenario ect. 

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Always/yes/maybe/no/never.

I will give them some test time, as much as all other new units, but I won't probably use him too much until resculpts allow me to make my planned "Mixed Division" with troops from all 4 Sectorials.

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Climbing Plus and Super Jump is absolutely huge for us, especially on a powerful melee model. How many times I wanted to get to a dug-in model in the midfield with a ninja only to realize that I couldn't because it would take too many orders and/or put the ninja in a bad position. The Shikami can get those hard to reach target, then press their button while he dances on their grave.

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1 hour ago, Shadow said:

Don't forget domaru duo, spitfire and chain rifle for pretty much the same points

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shikami duo is far stronger and more usable than domaru duo. With Shikami link, you get 2 hyper-mobile specialists HI with ODD, while with Domaru you get just 2 HI. They also have a different role.

Domaru will shine together with haramaki, which will be of the scariest links. Very allround (missile launcher, spitfire, lieutenant, chainrifle, etc.), and deadly in CC, when domaru receives new link CC bonuses. 

While shikami is your heavy hitter and a surviving specialist, that is able to reach any objective. :)

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Shikami is too expensive to be an auto-include. It is the Ninja wet-dream, but it's still going to have to take one on the bench due to cost more than once.

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Auto include I highly doubt...but a really awesome HI to have yet another attack vector that will be included in certain missions etc absolutely. Personally I will try them as soon as we all have HSN3 in our group.

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I've playtested the Shikami and it's quite order intensive to move up the board, and as a HI vulnerable to midfield hacking. It also needs forward smoke support, it's quite the diva of a unit. 

I think it would work best in JSA in a duo with Ninja KHD and Shinobu dropping smoke, since it's one of the best specialists that JSA have. 

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Can the Shikami super jump into b2b with a rooftop model, CC attack, and then fall out of CC?

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5 minutes ago, what_is_tactics? said:

Can the Shikami super jump into b2b with a rooftop model, CC attack, and then fall out of CC?

Yes, but it's only 4-4 so it would have to be a short building. 

 

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I'll use the Shikami for button pushing missions.  The problem I found with Keisotsu-intensive lists is that they generally lacked the durability to get through mines, direct templates and other defensive options that you're likely to encounter around objectives.  Bikes are obviously pretty fragile and no good at Dodging, and even taking Domaru/Haramaki/Karakuri meant you had to burn all your Command Tokens swapping between links based on need.  The Shikami will be very good solo pieces for advancing under the umbrella of all that cheap Keisotsu firepower... Enemies that hunker to avoid their cheap BS13 heavy weapons will get flushed by the Shikami, and mines/direct templates won't be great defensive thanks to superjump, good PH, multiple Wounds, etc.

That doesn't change the fact though that Shikami are still going to require a lot of Orders before they can actually kill anything.  Having to close within 16 inches at best, and obviously much closer to use close combat or the assault pistol, means they'll burn through the pool quickly.  That's great if you plan to advance anyway to get objectives or Quadrants, but it makes them less effective for other missions.

A great asset, but they'll be one more good choice among other great assets. 

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21 minutes ago, what_is_tactics? said:

Can the Shikami super jump into b2b with a rooftop model, CC attack, and then fall out of CC?

 

15 minutes ago, The Kakistocrat said:

Yes, but it's only 4-4 so it would have to be a short building. 

 

 

No, they can't. From http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/General_Movement_Rules

  • A trooper's Movement ends automatically whenever he enters base to base contact with an enemy, even if the movement route specified is cut short as a result.

So the first Short Movement Skill would need to end somewhere in base contact with the base fully supported, with the movement ending at that point.

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You can end your movement in mid-air though with super jump, and then simply fall. Theres room for the shikami's base at the bottom of the wall.

So I move b2b with your rooftop sniper. Fall out of CC. While in b2b, CC may be able to occur - thats the part that I'm confused on.

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5 minutes ago, what_is_tactics? said:

You can end your movement in mid-air though with super jump, and then simply fall.

Ah, that may explain the confusion. You don't 'end your movement in mid-air', the fall is considered part of that movement.

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As per the Super-Jump examples, Tarik Jumps to position W and falls to the ground, all included in the first Short Movement Skill. AROs are then declared based on the entire path, then Tarik declares his second skill.

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Couldn't I declare CC while at the point in the path where we are in B2B? Same way I can shoot from any part of it

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There's no 'point in the path where we are in BtB' in that sense, the trooper's movement (movement of any kind) immediately ended when it reached base contact.

If the enemy trooper is right on the edge of a flat roof the Shikami could make use of Climbing Plus to land sideways on the wall with the bases touching, but that would become the end of the move.

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Regardless of falling or "movement immediately ending" etc, his first movement would have brought him into b2b wouldn't it? Which is why I think he could swing.

Same way that moving round a corner and back gave me LoF at some point so I can take the shot

I'll use the C+ for Shikami but theres other stuff where it might matter, so would like to know if it works or not.

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You just replied to my post that said it's possible... :giving-up:

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12 hours ago, Gibbert said:

Is the new Shikami that is coming going to be one of those units that is an auto include in many of your lists, especially JSA? 

Depends how it looks.

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