Yashia

Infinity Manga incoming!

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I don't mind if the manga is not the best ever. Good will be enough for me.

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I'm looking forward to this. I wonder if CB will be selling it in a digital format as well as print. My wife's been on me to reduce the clutter in the house.

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4 hours ago, Code Ronin said:

I'm looking forward to this. I wonder if CB will be selling it in a digital format as well as print. My wife's been on me to reduce the clutter in the house.

You should do something about that negativity in your life ;)

 

I think i will get at least one issue an then will see.

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I'm really looking forward to it! I'm not a regular manga reader, but I have Akira and GitS in my bookshelf, the Infinity manga will fit right in!

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13 minutes ago, DrunkCorsair said:

You should do something about that negativity in your life ;)

Her birthday present to me two years ago was N3 and Operation Icestorm. *mic drop*

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Well, then you can tell her she supports the clutter herself. ;)

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I don't care what their front page article calls it, they're a Spanish company, and we're talking about it in english.

It's a comic book. :P

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9 minutes ago, Todd said:

I don't care what their front page article calls it, they're a Spanish company, and we're talking about it in english.

It's a comic book. :P

Meh, a manga is just a particular style of comic book.

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Todd, I am shocked, shocked that we have found a hair you are unwilling to split. 

Listen close, son, because I am only going to say this one time:

All manga are comics, but not all comics are manga

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Saying a comic is a manga doesn't qualify it as one either. Though I can understand the desire to label it as one anyways if just to increase appeal for the fans.

10 hours ago, Todd said:

I don't care what their front page article calls it, they're a Spanish company, and we're talking about it in english.

It's a comic book. :P

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I believe the panels are organized in that super awkward left-to-right format as well. :P

Regardless of terminology, nothing wrong with a western comic imitating a manga style as long as the comic still has a good story (hoping they get decent creative leeway) and ample edgy and/or dank dialogue (have my doubts about the series being more than PG).

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YES PLEASE!!!111!!111one!!11!!!!

I love manga! Next step, an Infinity anime. Make it happen too! Here are some original ideas for a name:

ALEPH in the Shell
Code Moiras
Full Metal DEUS VULT
Attack on Tohaa
Posthuman Pass
Antipode Beats!
The World Only the Evolved Intelligence Knows
Mobile Suit TAG
Riot Grrl Bebop
Serial Experiments Shas
Neon Genesis Seraph








 

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Fair enough, if they succeed in emulating the pace and structure, I'll consider retracting my statement. If it turns out to be sci-fi with big eyes and fan-service, I still say it's just a comic book. :P 

Just looking at their preview pages, chances are good that I'll be eating crow. :paranoid:

Personally, in this case, I think the cultural context is just as relevant as the formal and stylistic elements of the medium. Otherwise, you could start to point at the work of some actual Japanese manga artists and make a pretty valid argument that their work is not representative of the manga medium. Maybe it's not, if you're looking at the usual characteristics we've chosen to define the medium as it's typically employed. For instance, the work of Junji Ito doesn't really exhibit a lot of those elements in my opinion (aside from also being a different genre than those we're used to seeing). I think it would be interesting to hear how he'd respond to someone suggesting he doesn't really make manga (I don't know, maybe he'd even agree).

It's all kind of weird, because there's subjective and varied emphasis put on something that's simultaneously designating the vessel, the contents of the vessel, and the creator of the vessel.

Does it matter? Not really. However, I do think it warrants some consideration, in that a lot of manga inspired work is being created under labels that make its origins clear without directly appropriating the name of something that's viewed as a cultural medium.

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Manga is just an art form, one that can be made by any person regardless of race or nationality. Besides, I have seen much Japanese manga where it's pretty much just "big eyes and fan service" followed by a "seeeeeenpaiiii"

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5 hours ago, Certs said:

I believe the panels are organized in that super awkward left-to-right format as well. :P

Regardless of terminology, nothing wrong with a western comic imitating a manga style as long as the comic still has a good story (hoping they get decent creative leeway) and ample edgy and/or dank dialogue (have my doubts about the series being more than PG).

There's nothing intrinsically awkward about any reading direction, as long as it's consistent.

---

I say they can call it a manga if it looks and reads like a manga. I wouldn't define manga as "comics by japanese people", but rather by the style and to some extent the subject matter.

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13 hours ago, Zen79 said:

I'm really looking forward to it! I'm not a regular manga reader, but I have Akira and GitS in my bookshelf, the Infinity manga will fit right in!

Dude, you really need to get Appleseed in there, it's far superior to GitS.

Also a much bigger influence on Infinity. Even the preview pages of the Infinity manga looked almost right out of Appleseed.

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2 hours ago, PrayingSeraph said:

Manga is just an art form, one that can be made by any person regardless of race or nationality. Besides, I have seen much Japanese manga where it's pretty much just "big eyes and fan service"

 

2 hours ago, StarTraveller said:

I say they can call it a manga if it looks and reads like a manga. I wouldn't define manga as "comics by japanese people", but rather by the style and to some extent the subject matter.

 

Manga is a really strange case, because the name of an artistic medium hardly ever tells you anything about the content. If I say sculpture, I'm not communicating anything about the shape, size, color, texture, materials, whether it's abstract, figurative, or whatever else you can think of. It's free to be whatever. The same goes for painting, writing, music, dance, film etc. In the US and Europe, I think it's safe to say the same can be said of modern comic books. For some reason, Japanese culture has chosen to align the comic book medium with specific enough content that we all probably have fairly similar things come to mind when we hear the word manga. However, it's not just a drawing style, narrative structure, or collection of genres. It's all three, rooted deeply in how a specific culture approaches visual storytelling. 

Just to be clear, creating manga inspired work is fine. Appropriating the medium wholesale and without certain distinctions is problematic. You risk diluting the thing you seek to pay homage to, and robbing it of it's depth. From a western perspective, something being labeled manga should denote a lot more than just the style of art. Like I said though, after looking at the previews, it seems like CB will do it justice.

I would be nice to hear an actual Japanese perspective on the subject. Honestly, I don't know if they'd agree with me on any of this. XD

 

Anyone else hoping they end up doing an anthology book? 

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Anything that expands the background is a huge thumbs up for me. 

...and I always hope anything CB does is successful, just so they'll continue to do more! 

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1 hour ago, Todd said:

 

 

Manga is a really strange case, because the name of an artistic medium hardly ever tells you anything about the content. If I say sculpture, I'm not communicating anything about the shape, size, color, texture, materials, whether it's abstract, figurative, or whatever else you can think of. It's free to be whatever. The same goes for painting, writing, music, dance, film etc. In the US and Europe, I think it's safe to say the same can be said of modern comic books. For some reason, Japanese culture has chosen to align the comic book medium with specific enough content that we all probably have fairly similar things come to mind when we hear the word manga. However, it's not just a drawing style, narrative structure, or collection of genres. It's all three, rooted deeply in how a specific culture approaches visual storytelling. 

Just to be clear, creating manga inspired work is fine. Appropriating the medium wholesale and without certain distinctions is problematic. You risk diluting the thing you seek to pay homage to, and robbing it of it's depth. From a western perspective, something being labeled manga should denote a lot more than just the style of art. Like I said though, after looking at the previews, it seems like CB will do it justice.

I would be nice to hear an actual Japanese perspective on the subject. Honestly, I don't know if they'd agree with me on any of this. XD

 

Anyone else hoping they end up doing an anthology book? 

I guess I disagree with the principle that an art form can be diluted or robbed of it's depth because of the type of person that contributes to said art form.

Definitions are fluid, and they change over time. How many different types of music have been called jazz throughout the last century? Maybe once all manga came from japan, but that doesn't mean that will always be the case. A lot of manga inspired comics come out of south america that I would consider to be manga themselves. 

It looks like we just have different definitions of what manga is.

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Defining art is always a difficult thing, and whenever I see the word 'manga' get dropped I get a little worried because of that. Certainly art forms themselves aren't chained to specific geographic regions or moments in time (one does not have to be Jamaican to play reggae, nor live in the Classical period to compose 'Classical music')... one of the most beautiful things ABOUT art is that it can jump across time and space, across cultures. But at the same time, reggae and classical music and manga are all intimately linked with a unique set of cultural influences and practices which shaped and informed them.

Its easy just to take a term, take a few little pieces of an art form, and slap them onto something just because you can. That, to me, is a bad thing, cultural appropriation, colonial looting from a position of power where you can pick and choose without being forced to think about the whole. But that being bad doesn't mean you can only reference art styles with terms like 'inspired by' (nor that you can't innovate and push the boundaries of the style's accepted rules), it just means that if you want your work to be part of that style you need to appreciate all that style's complexities, history, context.

 

From what we see in those preview panels, and with Infinity already showing influence from anime & manga, I don't think applying the term 'manga' is going to be appropriative, we'll get something that tries to understand and internalize many of the components which produce that style of art.

 

Of course, that's all me expressing the opinion 'the Infinity manga can be called a manga', not 'the Infinity manga will be good'. On that, I'm not 100% sold, but am hopeful... even with beautiful art, even properly living up to its claim of being a manga, everything is going to come down to the writing. So I'm looking forward to when we start to see some previews of just what sort of stories the Infinity manga is going to tell, and how well it tells them! 

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I still see no objective argument that a certain art form can be exclusive to a race or nationality. As an theoretical example, say an American was to create a manga that looked just like, sounded just like a Japanese manga etc and yet used a Japanese pen name to make it so people think the manga is Japanese, and so people unanimously considered it "manga". But then say people found out that the author was actually some blond haired American. Does it somehow become less-manga or non-manga?  To argue so is ridiculous in my mind.

What if its an American who was raised in Japanese culture? Or a Japanese raised in American culture? Can they create manga?

Take Hockey for example. It was born in Canada and is a huge aspect of Canadian culture, Canadians throughout history have been a dominating force in the sport, and most of hockey's greatest stars were/are Canadian. But does this mean Hockey belongs to Canadians only? That no other team can be just as good if not better? That other countries cannot master the game better than us? Of course not. True we are talking about a sport here and not an art style, but both are products of two national cultures with huge ties to it. Both industries thrive in said two countries.

No one can change the history of manga, no one can claim "manga was created by germans" or "americans" or "british". Manga will always have come from Japan. Japan will always be the original creator of the art form itself. This fact will never change. But this does not mean Japan has some exclusive right to it. You cannot objectively own a art form.

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16poster.jpg

It goes both ways. Or should southern Spaniards hunt (Spanish Inquisition style) these Japanese for misappropriation?

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1 hour ago, PrayingSeraph said:

I still see no objective argument that a certain art form can be exclusive to a race or nationality. As an theoretical example, say an American was to create a manga that looked just like, sounded just like a Japanese manga etc and yet used a Japanese pen name to make it so people think the manga is Japanese, and so people unanimously considered it "manga". But then say people found out that the author was actually some blond haired American. Does it somehow become less-manga or non-manga?  To argue so is ridiculous in my mind.

What if its an American who was raised in Japanese culture? Or a Japanese raised in American culture? Can they create manga?

Take Hockey for example. It was born in Canada and is a huge aspect of Canadian culture, Canadians throughout history have been a dominating force in the sport, and most of hockey's greatest stars were/are Canadian. But does this mean Hockey belongs to Canadians only? That no other team can be just as good if not better? That other countries cannot master the game better than us? Of course not. True we are talking about a sport here and not an art style, but both are products of two national cultures with huge ties to it. Both industries thrive in said two countries.

No one can change the history of manga, no one can claim "manga was created by germans" or "americans" or "british". Manga will always have come from Japan. Japan will always be the original creator of the art form itself. This fact will never change. But this does not mean Japan has some exclusive right to it. You cannot objectively own a art form.

Exactly this.

I keep trying to explain to people that Anime and Manga don't just come from Japan. If you are faithful to the style than you have created a Manga/Anime. Your geographic location is just a location, it doesn't define the genre. Japan is just where those styles originated, thats all.

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I think what all of you (y'all or however it's pronounced) are talking about is a way in which the story is going to be told.
Well this manga is to be done by European artists, but it seems it will be done in a manga style of a comic book, as some have said it's only a medium.
From the first few pages you can say it's definitely not a done in a european style of comic, but by an artist who prefers manga as his medium. And when you say manga there are different styles of manga varied by comicbook artists and scriptwriters, as there is in American, European, Middle-Eastern and any other regional school of comics I'm unacquainted with.
I doubt that the Infinity manga will have a strong japanese (fanservice) influence in the story, but the visuals storytelling technique look like a stylized manga that has different influences in it and the intro colored picture with Ariadnans looks a bit westernized. Overall I like its art and it shows a lot of promise.

I'm a comic book lover and I don't mean to turn the thread and my future post into thesis about manga or comic book history, so I'm vying for a slight change in the discussion since this is a speculation thread.

What I'm more curious about is who the protagonists will be and will it have one main protagonist, or many different ones from different factions/walks of life. I'd even like if there were protagonists that aren't directly tied to the whole Infinity situation with its politics and factions (Go Go Marlene, some unknown mercenary, atek lowlife or somesuch).

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My guess. Chances are it'll be a group of people from the various factions that randomly end up bound by fate, brand new personalities with their own mostly separate story doing whatever that likely won't have an impact on anybody or anything in the game, but likely occasionally referencing them off-hand during conversations just to remind us they're part of the same universe. Kinda like those Marvel tv series.

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