Cothel

Nimbus Plus Grenade Tactics

74 posts in this topic

On 24. 2. 2017 at 4:49 PM, Cothel said:

Triangulated fire from Aelis or the HFT Chaksa Auxiliar Pistols also ignore the -6 penalty, but they do still suffer the burst penalty.

Sorry myabe i'm slow after work, but why did you choose Aelis as example? :) Thanks

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Aelis has Sensor. With it she can use Triangulated Fire. Triangulated Fire ignores all bonuses and penalties and you just roll on a BS-3, which in her case is a 9. Since a combi rifle can hit at 48 inches she can shoot a TO camo unit in cover through Nimbus Plus and still hit it on a 9 or less all the way out to just under 48". Aelis and the Heavy Flamethrower Chaksas are the only ones in the Tohaa army with Sensor.

SENSOR: TRIANGULATED FIRE ENTIRE ORDER
BS Attack, Optional.
REQUIREMENTS
  • The user must have the Sensor Special Skill.
  • The user must also have LoF to the target.
EFFECTS
  • Allows the user to declare a BS Attack with one of his BS Weapons against a target within LoF by making a BS-3 Roll, ignoring all other applicable MODs (Range, Cover, Special Skills such as Camouflage, TO, ODD...).
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@Cothel

thanks! Finally it makes sense for me :) Interesting tactic. 

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Do you get to surprise attack against a MSV3 model that is in a Nimbus Plus zone?  It says MSV3 is affected meaning has the -6 mod for firing but nothing mentions negating the MSV3 ability to not be Surprise Attacked. So in the Igao example would he get the -6 surprise attack if he jumped an (insert MSV3 model here)?

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Posted (edited)

MSV2 doesn't get to ignore Surprise Shot or Surprise Attack, that's specific to MSV3. The Nimbus Zone won't have any effect on that, either way.

Edited by IJW Wartrader
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22 minutes ago, IJW Wartrader said:

MSV2 doesn't get to ignore Surprise Shot or Surprise Attack, that's specific to MSV3. The Nimbus Zone won't have any effect on that, either way.

Thanks for correcting my mistakes, editted OP. But the answer is?

 

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Nimbus and Nimbus Plus do not change MSV3's ability to deal with Surprise Shot.

 

MULTISPECTRAL VISOR LEVEL 3 AUTOMATIC EQUIPMENT
Obligatory.
REQUIREMENTS
EFFECTS
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So This

  • The MODs of Poor Visibility Zone due to Nimbus Plus Special Ammunition will be also applied to troopers equipped with a Multispectral Visor of any Level, or any other piece of Equipment that specifies the same.

Just means they suffer -6 when swinging back? So even though Nimbus Plus is effective at making them not see it doesn't remove there ability to ignore Surprise Shot/Attack.  Just making sure as I can see arguments on both sides and want to be sure, as I intend on using it on the internets tonight.

 

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I'm not sure I understand the question. Could you say exactly what the situation is, who is using what Skills and what you expect to happen?

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10 hours ago, Moonova said:

 

So This

  • The MODs of Poor Visibility Zone due to Nimbus Plus Special Ammunition will be also applied to troopers equipped with a Multispectral Visor of any Level, or any other piece of Equipment that specifies the same.

Just means they suffer -6 when swinging back? So even though Nimbus Plus is effective at making them not see it doesn't remove there ability to ignore Surprise Shot/Attack.  Just making sure as I can see arguments on both sides and want to be sure, as I intend on using it on the internets tonight.

 

No, it means that all MSV are "affected" but MSV2 and MSV3 negates that to 0 modifier (while MSV1 negates Low Visibility Zone to 0 and Poor Visibility zone to -3). 

So they are affected but due to their own rules they might ignore it ;P

It's good to see nimbus being use and having reliable applications. If only FK could use his. 

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So assuming I am a camo marker.

If I surprise shot a non visor model through nimbus2 they fire back at -12

If I surprise shot a msv1 wearer through nimbus2 they fire back at -9. (-12 if To Camo)

If I surprise shot a msv2 wearer through nimbus2 they fire back at -9.

If I surprise shot a msv3 wearer through nimbus2 they fire back at -6.

 

I think.

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Looks right.

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5 hours ago, Spears said:

So assuming I am a camo marker.

If I surprise shot a non visor model through nimbus2 they fire back at -12 (-3 Camo, -6 For Poor Vis, -3 Surprise Shot)=-12

If I surprise shot a msv1 wearer through nimbus2 they fire back at -9. (0 Camo , -3 Poor Vis [MSV reduces -6 to -3], -3 Surprise Shot) =-6 

If I surprise shot a msv2 wearer through nimbus2 they fire back at -9. (0 Camo [MSV2 ignores Camo], , -3 Surprise Shot)=-3

If I surprise shot a msv3 wearer through nimbus2 they fire back at -6. (0 Camo [MSV3 ignores Camo],0 Poor Vis [MSV3 reduces -6 to 0], 0 Surprise Shot [MSV3 ignores this])=0

 

I think.

EDIT: The following is wrong as well as the inserted Italics above.

 

 

So I am not sure and edited your post with my math in Italics. Then I will add surprise attack as just inflicting -6 instead of minus three which only changes Example 1 and 2 to -15 and and -12 effectively -12 for both as that is the maximum. (just stating it for the math). With that being stated TO only changes example 2 to bring it two -12 surprise shot and -15 surprise attack (again stated for math -12 is max)

So to my original question and the Igao example this changes the math like so for surprise attack.

So assuming I am a Igao in camo state making a successful Surprise attack against a model with wounds (so Ikohl works) using MA lvl 3 (+3 att -3 to Opp),  My math may bring the mod past -12 but I understand -12 is max but I am just totaling the math to reduce confusion. As well as the Opp may have modifiers that counteract the total. 

If I surprise attack a non visor model in nimbus2 they fire/cc back at -21 (-3 Camo, -6 For Poor Vis, -6 Surprise attack, -3 Ikohl, -3 MA)

If I surprise attack a msv1 wearer in nimbus2 they fire/cc back at -15. (0 Camo , -3 Poor Vis [MSV reduces -6 to -3], -6 Surprise attack, -3 Ikohl, -3 MA) 

If I surprise attack a msv2 wearer in nimbus2 they fire/cc back at -12. (0 Camo [MSV2 ignores Camo], -6 Surprise attack, -3 Ikohl, -3 MA)

If I surprise attack a msv3 wearer in nimbus2 they fire/cc back at -6. (0 Camo [MSV3 ignores Camo],0 Poor Vis [MSV3 reduces -6 to 0], 0 Surprise Shot [MSV3 ignores this]-3 Ikohl, -3 MA)

Note my original question is answered that is a MSV2 or 3 wearer does get their bonus to LOW and Poor vis zones.  I read the description stating that MSV's were affected I never reread the MSV section stating that the adjust the mods for the effects.

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Nimbus Plus = (Normal Math for the Attack) - 6 Ballistic Skill -1 Burst.

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I disagree with the interpretation that msv ignores the negatives from the poor vis. 

If I surprise shot a non visor model through nimbus2 they fire back at -12 (-3 Camo, -6 For Poor Vis, -3 Surprise Shot)

If I surprise shot a msv1 wearer through nimbus2 they fire back at -9. ( -6 Poor Vis  -3 Surprise Shot) 

If I surprise shot a msv2 wearer through nimbus2 they fire back at -9. (-6 Poor Vis  -3 Surprise Shot)

If I surprise shot a msv3 wearer through nimbus2 they fire back at -6.( -6 Poor Vis  ])

 

edit: the nimbus has no effect if your opponent uses a cc attack.

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1 minute ago, Cothel said:

Nimbus Plus = (Normal Math for the Attack) - 6 Ballistic Skill -1 Burst.

If you want to simplify it that much why just say. Nimbus Plus = normal math for attack. MSV is in the usual math and affects the -6 BS.

 

Please add to the conversation or ignore it.

 

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1 minute ago, Moonova said:

If you want to simplify it that much why just say. Nimbus Plus = normal math for attack. MSV is in the usual math and affects the -6 BS.

 

Please add to the conversation or ignore it.

 

I'm sorry I offended you in any way. It was not my intent. It just looked to me that you were trying to get overly complex with everything because Nimbus Plus was involved. I was trying to show that it's not that complex. Obviously you do not want me in your thread, so I will gladly leave.

 

 

 

 

Wait, didn't I start this thread???

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Posted (edited)

Moonova, you appear to be ignoring the Reflective Trait for Nimbus Plus. MSVs cannot reduce the MODs for Nimbus or Nimbus Plus.

EDIT - see http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Nimbus_Special_Ammunition

  • The MODs of Low Visibility Zone due to Nimbus Special Ammunition will be also applied to troopers equipped with a Multispectral Visor of any Level, or any other piece of Equipment that specifies the same.

 

http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Nimbus_Plus_Special_Ammunition

  • The MODs of Poor Visibility Zone due to Nimbus Plus Special Ammunition will be also applied to troopers equipped with a Multispectral Visor of any Level, or any other piece of Equipment that specifies the same.

 

http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Traits

  • Reflective. The effects of this weapon will be also applied to troopers equipped with a Multispectral Visor of any Level, or any other piece of Equipment that specifies the same.
Edited by IJW Wartrader
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@IJW Wartrader I wasn't my original statement was it couldn't then I was corrected that MSV can see through it. Which is why I did the math so people could see what exactly I was doing. Which I reiterated in the last line of my last post. So to my OP You can suprise Attack someone in Nimbus+ and Counterattack or take away their MSV bonuses. Why can you not do the same with CC?

@Cothel sorry if I overreacted to many internet trolls my first reaction is to shut it down before it gets nuts.

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4 minutes ago, Moonova said:

@Cothel sorry if I overreacted to many internet trolls my first reaction is to shut it down before it gets nuts.

I do play this guy from time to time, so calling me an internet troll is not completely without merit. 

Zuwabi.png

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18 minutes ago, Moonova said:

 You can suprise Attack someone in Nimbus+ and Counterattack or take away their MSV bonuses. Why can you not do the same with CC?

I'm not 100% I'm following your question. But neither low vis nor saturation effect a cc attack. 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Moonova said:

@IJW Wartrader I wasn't my original statement was it couldn't then I was corrected that MSV can see through it. Which is why I did the math so people could see what exactly I was doing. Which I reiterated in the last line of my last post. So to my OP You can suprise Attack someone in Nimbus+ and Counterattack or take away their MSV bonuses. Why can you not do the same with CC?

Everyone can see through Nimbus and Nimbus Plus, they aren't Zero Visibility Zones so doesn't block Line of Fire. But everyone (MSV or not) also suffers their -3 or -6 visual MODs.

The only effect MSVs will have in any of your examples is to reduce Camo/TO Camo/ODD MODs, and for MSV3 to ignore Surprise Shot and Surprise Attack.

EDIT - and as Spears says, either the -3 or -6 MODs for Nimbus or Nimbus Plus will have any effect on CC Attacks as that is a Skill that doesn't require Line of Fire.

Edited by IJW Wartrader
Typos.
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sorry if I overreacted to many internet trolls my first reaction is to shut it down before it gets nuts.

Sometimes it is really useful to delay your AROs ;)

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I am still new but I am going to have to try this out next few games.

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