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KJon

New HSN3 Fireteam CC bonus?

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Heya guys. In the new HSN3 book with the updated rules the fireteam bonuses in CC confused me on whether it has changed or not.
 

  • » In Close Combat, whether in the Active or Reactive Turn, when several members are engaged in the same CC, only the Team Leader trooper will perform the CC Roll, gaining a MOD of +1 to his B and +1 to the PH Attribute for Damage for each Fireteam member Engaged with the adversary


For example, if I got 3 guys in a fireteam (including the link leader) engaged with an enemy:
1) In the active turn: I activate the fireteam and declare a CC Attack. The Link Leader does the attack and gains +3B and +3PH (for damage) for the CC attack as there are 3 members of the fireteam engaged with the enemy (including the link leader).
2) In the reactive turn, the enemy trooper activates and declares he will CC attack one of the member of the fireteam who is NOT the Link Leader. I declare the fireteam will CC attack in reaction. ONLY the Link Leader will be doing the CC attack, gaining the bonuses in (1). The other 2 members of the fireteam, for the purposes of face to face rolls, does nothing, hence the enemy trooper will get an uncontested roll against the target of its CC attack.

Is this correct? Example (1) came up during a recent game and we didn't want to waste time debating the rules so we just went with the old ruling of only +1B +1PH for every other member of the fireteam engaged, hence only a +2B +2PH bonus for the (1) example

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CC for Fireteams is the same in both turns - only the Team Leader gets to roll. Don't forget that the enemy trooper could choose to do the same thing in your turn, by declaring their ARO against someone other than the Team Leader.

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Kind of makes it sound extremely dangerous for link-teams to go into CC even if they're CC experts (thinking Massacre+Jaguar link for example).

If I get them into CC and try to use my link leader for an attack with very high chances of success my opponent can just ARO against a different teammember (if they dont insist on trying to save the target) for a very good chance to break my fireteam in exchange. Or am I missing something?

I kinda thought my Massacre link would be a good option to take out TAGs in CC if done right but as its questionable they'd manage to KILL a TAG in one CC attack that would almost certainly mean a broken fireteam one order later, woudn't it? Most TAGs have pretty high CC and PH after all so while they may not be CC experts they have very high chances to wound in CC on an unopposed roll.

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Fireteams don't break until they're down to one member, so a TAG choosing to try and kill a Jaguar is very unlikely to break the Fireteam and is going to be a really bad idea for the TAG as it means the Team Leader will get unopposed rolls.

Massacre plus four Jaguars with unopposed Rolls is almost guaranteed to put the TAG into Isolated + IMM-2 state if unopposed, and that's if he doesn't simply kill it outright with five DAM18 AP hits (+4 from the rest of the Jaguars, +1 from NBW).

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11 minutes ago, IJW Wartrader said:

Fireteams don't break until they're down to one member, so a TAG choosing to try and kill a Jaguar is very unlikely to break the Fireteam and is going to be a really bad idea for the TAG as it means the Team Leader will get unopposed rolls.

Massacre plus four Jaguars with unopposed Rolls is almost guaranteed to put the TAG into Isolated + IMM-2 state if unopposed, and that's if he doesn't simply kill it outright with five DAM18 AP hits (+4 from the rest of the Jaguars, +1 from NBW).

But still enemy gets a unoposed roll so he can easily down/wound your other CC specialst which would probably not happen if he was making FtF rolss. Not to mention that MA guys lose part of their value if they go into CC with their link (no FtF modifier for enemy). 

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Having your opponent not attack back is much MUCH better odds than any FtF MOD.

Plus most TAGs don't have a CCW so will be down to DAM15, by the time you factor in average CC of 17 then even a Jaguar is going to survive the unopposed hit on better than 40% odds. Any TAG with a CCW is probably going to want to fight back, so that they have some chance of surviving.

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@IJW Wartrader What about for situation (1)? Is the +3B +3 PH for the link team for a 3 man link engaged with a trooper correct?

1 hour ago, Eciu said:

But still enemy gets a unoposed roll so he can easily down/wound your other CC specialst which would probably not happen if he was making FtF rolss. Not to mention that MA guys lose part of their value if they go into CC with their link (no FtF modifier for enemy). 

1 dead jaguar in exchange for a TAG is a good deal in my book

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+2/+2? Yes.

It won't be +3/+3 because that would involve the Team Leader giving himself a bonus for being an extra member of the Fireteam.

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I'd like to know that, too.

 

 

Also yea I didnt think about it quite like that. I'm used to a 3-man Haris link with only 2 Jaguars. But still I guess its better odds than I thought. I'm just used to overlooking such details and loosing games because of it by now lol

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11 minutes ago, IJW Wartrader said:

+2/+2? Yes.

It won't be +3/+3 because that would involve the Team Leader giving himself a bonus for being an extra member of the Fireteam.

Thanks for clearing that up. The book states
"gaining a MOD of +1 to his B and +1 to the PH Attribute for Damage for each Fireteam member Engaged with the adversary "
which implies to me since all 3 members of the fireteam are engaged, and the link leader is considered a Fireteam member, hence it's +3/+3

It could do with better wording. Such as "..for each other Fireteam member..."

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