EpicDiceFail

Blackjacks? What Blackjacks?

233 posts in this topic

Based on the model, the profile is going to have to be updated.  I think people kept asking CB, where's ariadna's TAG, and they said, "well, here ya go". Core +1 to gruntz would be amazing. Or perhaps MSV 1 at least on the sniper.

Blackjacks with Full Auto and Fatality 2. NOW!  ( that should be a Banner )

Though while we're at it how about inferior infiltration desperados?

Based on it's points and profile as it is though, I've like the use in the game, though I generally bring other options. I think in vanilla it's not about replacing a spetznaz or tank hunter but adding them in addition as cheap additional support. 

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18 hours ago, Orpheus80 said:

I play vanilla, and his profile really has no worth to me. For offensive power for few pts more I get Specnaz which is basically BS15 vs BS 13/12, and has better modifiers when shoot at(-3/-6) compared to no mods from Blackjack. Yes, blackjack is a bit more sturdy, but I prefere to kill target and not be in situations where I take hits, and let's face it, Specnaz can kill almost anything. Yes, blackjack will have advantage vs TAG's and heavy infantry, but to begin with, I would rather hit target, and negate ARO's, than suffer a hit because of lower BS and no camo.
I don't really find Ariadna efficiend at low order count, compared to what I can make in more elite armys with low model count. Does it break game for you? Maybe, but CB designed it this way to due ITS and Ariadna design.

Yes, people say he is nice ARO with ARM 8, 2W and T2 sniper. Which in itself is only half true. Thing is, why would smart opponent engage him with subpar troops? If enemy brings camo/to-camo sniper to counter you, they are not paying that much more for his sniper, and you will have hard time winning vs it. You will almost always be at disadvantage when it comes to ARO, and you are more hoping for lucky hit, than actually wining ARO, which is usually unlikely when you have less B, and worse mods to hit enemy in most cases. It's not that enemy will decide to engage you with rifles across half map, no, you will be fighting vs HMG/snipers(multi)/rockets etc. and perhaps link teams who will have BS 15-16 with B3-5...you won't last long really. You are not paying that much for him, but at same time, you are not doing that much in return to begin with.

As said, my gamestyle is much different that trying to use subpar troops as ARO pieces vs superior troops. I am rather not hit during reactive turn, and then during my turn use everything I can to hurt enemy as much as I can. And you really have good options for that.

As with many other sectorial profiles, in vanilla they are simply bland and kinda subpar compared to choiches you have avaiable, unfortunately.

Fair enough my point was moreso him not getting more for his cost :)

58 minutes ago, cypherkk said:

Based on the model, the profile is going to have to be updated.  I think people kept asking CB, where's ariadna's TAG, and they said, "well, here ya go". Core +1 to gruntz would be amazing. Or perhaps MSV 1 at least on the sniper.

Blackjacks with Full Auto and Fatality 2. NOW!  ( that should be a Banner )

Though while we're at it how about inferior infiltration desperados?

Based on it's points and profile as it is though, I've like the use in the game, though I generally bring other options. I think in vanilla it's not about replacing a spetznaz or tank hunter but adding them in addition as cheap additional support. 

I doubt he will be getting MSV anything. That is like PanO players pleading CB for smoke. Ain't gonna happen which is fair enough.

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MSV1 wouldn't be out of line (Briscards), today's military snipers have access to thermal imagers (for that matter I can buy a current-issue milspec thermal scope for about $4000 as a civilian!).  And Ariadna is supposed to be at least as tech'd up as US forces today.

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5 minutes ago, Section 9 said:

MSV1 wouldn't be out of line (Briscards), today's military snipers have access to thermal imagers (for that matter I can buy a current-issue milspec thermal scope for about $4000 as a civilian!).  And Ariadna is supposed to be at least as tech'd up as US forces today.

I could say the same for smoke and PanO there friend. Again ain't gonna happen.

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Never gonna', neva' gonna', ... Ooh, got it.

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2 hours ago, Horrid Beasts said:

I could say the same for smoke and PanO there friend. Again ain't gonna happen.

As far as I know, there is no regular smoke in PanO at all (although they have Eclipse), as opposed to already having actual MSVs on several units in Ariadna.

Anyway, now it depends on what ruleset you are talking about. PanO have just gotten access to dirt-cheap regular smoke throwers (as in, "regular smoke", not regular throwers, although with Jeanne they can be that as well) assuming you are using optional rule and pay 1 SWC.

"Optional rules are not real rules" argument aside, I think that this is significant that you can use *your own* faction's units through enlisted smoke as opposed to using specific MSV units handpicked as "allowed extras" who have effects of their gear limited to their own orders/AROs only.

Besides, MSV1 is just a mod. It doesn't allow you to do something fundamentally different than what you already do (by bringing high BS or MMS2 or what have you).

I'm not saying we should expect new Blackjack profiles, but I don't see "because it won't happen" as a convincing backup for given prognosis.

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Maybe Mavericks can lose their MSV L1 and it can go to the Blackjacks instead...

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3 hours ago, Horrid Beasts said:

I could say the same for smoke and PanO there friend. Again ain't gonna happen.

Except for there being several units in Ariadna with MSV1, two of which are in USAriadna:  Mavericks and Marauders, along with Briscards and Uxia.  Plus Le Muet and Knauf, if we're going to count mercs.

It's not like how PanO has ZERO access to smoke natively.

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BJ is ok as it is. It's quite cheap and the extra second profile guive the necesarry endurance. Sure it will end down, but it will took some enemy orders from his pool until that, or better kill those orders. And that only for the sniper.

The HMG can resist a bad luck strike when hunting down enemyes, sure it isn't strong enought for reactive, but thats why you hide it and let the grunts hold the line.

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I would love it to get a new profile befitting its tremendous stature (and making LI lists easier to make in USARF), but I am not putting any eggs in that basket. 

 

Still probably gonna buy both versions either way. :D

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6 hours ago, Barrogh said:

As far as I know, there is no regular smoke in PanO at all (although they have Eclipse), as opposed to already having actual MSVs on several units in Ariadna.

Anyway, now it depends on what ruleset you are talking about. PanO have just gotten access to dirt-cheap regular smoke throwers (as in, "regular smoke", not regular throwers, although with Jeanne they can be that as well) assuming you are using optional rule and pay 1 SWC.

"Optional rules are not real rules" argument aside, I think that this is significant that you can use *your own* faction's units through enlisted smoke as opposed to using specific MSV units handpicked as "allowed extras" who have effects of their gear limited to their own orders/AROs only.

Besides, MSV1 is just a mod. It doesn't allow you to do something fundamentally different than what you already do (by bringing high BS or MMS2 or what have you).

I'm not saying we should expect new Blackjack profiles, but I don't see "because it won't happen" as a convincing backup for given prognosis.

Agreed and the guys that have MSV1 are pretty undesirable units at that a bit like the Guarda from PanO...

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Yeah, I'm likely to buy both models eventually.  1)  I do have a small Ariadna army.  2)  I have a collection of all the S5 heavy infantry going (kinda hard not to when you have the new Azrail and Al-badass models)

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Btw. thing I am not getting, all those Advanced TAG's hold their weapons in hand(okay, almost all), while at the same time, low tech ariadna has easier time aiming sniper which is shoulder mounted? It makes no sense to me.

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3 hours ago, Orpheus80 said:

Btw. thing I am not getting, all those Advanced TAG's hold their weapons in hand(okay, almost all), while at the same time, low tech ariadna has easier time aiming sniper which is shoulder mounted? It makes no sense to me.

Did I miss where Blackjacks no longer roll to hit with T2 Snipers? :P

If I had to guess, it's likely the fact that it's a fairly stable platform that the operator is controlling via helmet linkage for a HUD and maybe voice activated fire control. It's far from "low tech" since we don't have a whole lot of stuff that would mimic it today.

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The black jack profile is absolutely fine, the hmg one seems somewhat more difficult to fit in my lists outside limited insertion. Overall their best strength is the price. As an aro piece at that price the t2 can make a lot of damage and if he fails its not as harmful as losing other premium aro pieces like the yuan huo.

Personally i'm ready to rock them Madox style! (except for the price, if they end up at 35$ ... especially when it's an oversized s5 miniature there is no reason to make it that big except for making it more expensive)

 

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You know, there was a guy who was trying to get licensed 28mm MADOX01 minis made... Wonder whatever happened to that plan?  I mean, he had renders and everything going!

 

13 hours ago, Orpheus80 said:

Btw. thing I am not getting, all those Advanced TAG's hold their weapons in hand(okay, almost all), while at the same time, low tech ariadna has easier time aiming sniper which is shoulder mounted? It makes no sense to me.

It's pretty simple:  Sniper Rifle (and HMG) have the camera mounted directly on the weapon, and zeroed like a scope (like the gun in Bruce Willis movie The Jackal).  Might even be sync'ed to the operator's head movements like the gun on an Apache, which is actually 1970s tech.

It's simply a man-portable Remote Weapons System, which are all over the place today (Strykers have one, Abrams TUSK and Bradley BUSK have at least one and usually two):

Kongsberg_Protector_RWS_on_M1126.jpg

 

Getting the optics in the TAG's head to line up on the weapon is a different challenge!

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That kind of weapon system got used in Call of Duty: Ghosts with you getting to set up a bunch of remote-linked, tripod mounted Barrett .50s to spring an ambush.

 

Was fricking phenomenal.

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So, I got roasted for bringing up any trepidation over on the WGC Facebook group.
Blackjack is up for pre-order now.  It's coming in at a hefty $40 for a single model.

Is anyone else off-put by CB putting out a $40 S5 HI model?  One that doesn't come with all the weapon options for the profiles in the box.

Blackjacks are a head over Yan Huo's and Al Fasid models.  Are CB stretching the S5 sizing too much with the model scale and pricing?
 

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30 minutes ago, ski2060 said:

Blackjack is up for pre-order now.  It's coming in at a hefty $40 for a single model.

Is anyone else off-put by CB putting out a $40 S5 HI model?  One that doesn't come with all the weapon options for the profiles in the box.

It is $27.97 at Game Nerdz. However, they only ship inside the mainland USA. So anyone else will hopefully find a deal close to that.

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9 hours ago, Golem2God said:

It is $27.97 at Game Nerdz. However, they only ship inside the mainland USA. So anyone else will hopefully find a deal close to that.

I just pre-ordered it from there.

 

 

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10 hours ago, ski2060 said:

So, I got roasted for bringing up any trepidation over on the WGC Facebook group.
Blackjack is up for pre-order now.  It's coming in at a hefty $40 for a single model.

Is anyone else off-put by CB putting out a $40 S5 HI model?  One that doesn't come with all the weapon options for the profiles in the box.

Blackjacks are a head over Yan Huo's and Al Fasid models.  Are CB stretching the S5 sizing too much with the model scale and pricing?
 

It's TAG sized. I'd expect TAG sized prices. I'd be much happier with it being packaged and sold like the Geckos though. But I'll also be getting it for the $27.97, so I don't think it's that bad (Tarik is $10 cheaper on that site and has a lot less metal). I do think they should have done it as a S6 TAG though. It would give USAr a TAG for the TAG missions, and match the size better. 

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23 minutes ago, BaleWolf said:

It's TAG sized. I'd expect TAG sized prices. I'd be much happier with it being packaged and sold like the Geckos though. But I'll also be getting it for the $27.97, so I don't think it's that bad (Tarik is $10 cheaper on that site and has a lot less metal). I do think they should have done it as a S6 TAG though. It would give USAr a TAG for the TAG missions, and match the size better. 

From all the pictures, it doesn't look that much larger than the other S5 stuff. It's a bit broader and the remote weapon system for the T2 Sniper really adds some height.

 

That said, I'm opposed to it being classified as a TAG because that would mean it would be vulnerable to TAG hacking protocols and we'd need another classification of TAG, since it doesn't have an Operator and it's not RP.

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21 minutes ago, Kanluwen said:

From all the pictures, it doesn't look that much larger than the other S5 stuff. It's a bit broader and the remote weapon system for the T2 Sniper really adds some height.

That said, I'm opposed to it being classified as a TAG because that would mean it would be vulnerable to TAG hacking protocols and we'd need another classification of TAG, since it doesn't have an Operator and it's not RP.

I'll have to take a better look, and also see it in person. From memory, it looks pretty massive, and things like the Al Fasid and Yan Huos are already right at the top of the S5 template.

 

Give it ED: Escape System (explosive bolts blowing the heavy armor off and letting the operator run around from there) and non hack-able (I don't see it being a huge issue, though I know others would), along with some stat and points increases, and I think it could be a good/fun TAG.

 

By no means do I think this is something that needs to be done, as I think the Black Jack has amazing rules (I actually think it should get a little price boost, but that's a different argument for a different day). Personally, I think it would just suit the model better, as I don't see him being able to go prone too well and it looks pretty hefty to be dodging without penalty. This would also fit the fluff of them being fixed up by the Dozers (I think it was Dozers).

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1 hour ago, Kanluwen said:

From all the pictures, it doesn't look that much larger than the other S5 stuff. It's a bit broader and the remote weapon system for the T2 Sniper really adds some height.

 

That said, I'm opposed to it being classified as a TAG because that would mean it would be vulnerable to TAG hacking protocols and we'd need another classification of TAG, since it doesn't have an Operator and it's not RP.

Heck, just make it Non-Hackable, problem solved.

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It cracks me up that this thing can go prone lol

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