schoon

Strikezone Wotan

305 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Berynius said:

Hmm all that talk about orbital strikes and explosions make me wonder what would happen if the Combined army got control of the Yu Jing frigate. I mean plausibly PanO could turn the defence platform on it and blow it up. saying "We could not allow the defence of the Human Sphere to be compromised so we were not willing to wait and see if Yu JIng was able to regain control"   

same for CA and PANO automated defence. if they fell into CA hands, i can see the other ships exploding, leaving a CA defended gate to Human Sphere.

but probably each of the factions have some self destruct on their installations. right? right?

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The reason why nobody will get to deploy the mass drivers, laser batteries and nuclear torpedoes in game is the game doesn't have them. The fluff reason is something along the lines that O12 wants to minimise materiel losses and won't authorise it. Now it might be fun to act the hard ass and say "we'll fire anyway hurhur" but one of the fundamental constants of Infinity fluff is that nobody wants to give anyone else leverage politically. Being the first to open up an open conflict almost automatically puts you in the wrong with the rest of humanity, and gives your opposition the moral right to return fire, most likely with O12 approval... 

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2 hours ago, cazboab said:

The reason why nobody will get to deploy the mass drivers, laser batteries and nuclear torpedoes in game is the game doesn't have them. The fluff reason is something along the lines that O12 wants to minimise materiel losses and won't authorise it. Now it might be fun to act the hard ass and say "we'll fire anyway hurhur" but one of the fundamental constants of Infinity fluff is that nobody wants to give anyone else leverage politically. Being the first to open up an open conflict almost automatically puts you in the wrong with the rest of humanity, and gives your opposition the moral right to return fire, most likely with O12 approval... 

I suggest you read Campaign: Paradiso.

 

Mass driver shots get used by Yu Jing, on Paradiso, to hit what is believed to be Shasvastii command and control facilities.

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7 minutes ago, Kanluwen said:

I suggest you read Campaign: Paradiso.

 

Mass driver shots get used by Yu Jing, on Paradiso, to hit what is believed to be Shasvastii command and control facilities.

Still it was not used against another HS faction (I got impression that O12 happily allow to unleash everything HS have when it comes to hitting aliens). 

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Mass drivers is what happens if you manage to wipe the enemy team out too quickly to complete your objectives?

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20 minutes ago, Eciu said:

Still it was not used against another HS faction (I got impression that O12 happily allow to unleash everything HS have when it comes to hitting aliens). 

That's the most notable usage of them.

 

I'm sure there are more.

I mean, all honesty? We rarely get told specifics for weapons/engagements from the lore.

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5 minutes ago, Mahtamori said:

Mass drivers is what happens if you manage to wipe the enemy team out too quickly to complete your objectives?

Scandalous lies! That explosion was caused by an undetected pocket of natural gas that was ignited by an ill-disciplined Yu Jing soldier lit a cigarette. 

The Hexahedron will be demanding reparations for the costs of resurrection of their innocent citizens killed in the "accident" and the replacement of a Jotum unit being "maintained" nearby.

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1 hour ago, Col said:

Scandalous lies! That explosion was caused by an undetected pocket of natural gas that was ignited by an ill-disciplined Yu Jing soldier lit a cigarette. 

The Hexahedron will be demanding reparations for the costs of resurrection of their innocent citizens killed in the "accident" and the replacement of a Jotum unit being "maintained" nearby.

Not all Yu Jing public servants are soldiers, this citizen was a journalist working on exposing the dangers that these hidden mechanic workshops pose to the general public! It seems they underestimated just how much dangerous fumes such work vents into the vicinity.

We will repay you with the only paper currency you understand: tabloids! [/nonsense]

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On 02/04/2017 at 3:00 PM, Section 9 said:

You can detect the freaking International Space Station from the orbit of Jupiter200 [correction] 250kelvins is a HUGE temperature differential, and that's the lower option.  If your direction of view gets you out of the plane of the planets, the background temp drops from 50K to 5K, so your temperature differentials are closer to 300K (lifesection heat runs close to 300K at the radiators).  A small military thermal imager is capable of seeing a single-Kelvin difference at 10km through the atmosphere.  Give it a 1m diameter mirror to feed the sensor, and you get to see sunlight glinting off of Iridium satellites in IR from the orbit of Saturn, or manned spacecraft from the orbit of Mars.

 

While I have seen a possible design concept for an IR-stealthed ship, it's not viable when you have rockets capable of even 0.1gee boost (today's rockets are doing good to get 0.01gee after getting to orbit, and there are engineering schematics for drives capable of 0.1gee or more).  This stealth ship uses solar-heated hydrogen as the reaction mass, and liquid hydrogen to keep the hull temps down.  No reactors for serious thrust, it can't radically maneuver once detected.  It has performance roughly on par with today's space probes:  9 months to Mars at closest approach, 5 years to Jupiter.  It's also ginormous, about 2400 meters long.

 

Screwing with gravity would be your best bet, especially if you have no crew in the area.  Just rapidly cycle the grav generators on and off once a second, or maybe on for a second and off for a second.  Even better if you can change the direction of gravity between on/off cycles.

Screwing with atmosphere shouldn't matter, the boarding party should be and stay suited up.  Well, I take that back, going to a pure oxygen environment would screw up the boarding party by having a fire break out and kill them, but it'd also fry that compartment.  I doubt a space ship would be able to exceed maybe 2 bar for atmospheric pressure, there's no need for more than that in the engineering.  There's probably not even enough gas volume to exceed 5 bar, unless you somehow vented hydrogen reaction mass into the atmosphere.  And then you have an explosion hazard big enough to blow your entire spaceship in half.

 

depends on how intact you need the hull.  The shaped charges to breach like 4" of steel in a 1m circle wouldn't weigh more than 10kg, and if you're doing dynamic entry you probably don't care to keep any atmosphere in the hull.

Sorry to jump in here.
On the Hydrogen Steamer design, there was a following post which described how you could expand the exhaust of a nuclear thermal rocket to invisible temperatures through a nozzle with an extreme expansion ratio.

It would allow a stealth rocket to jet around the solar system with just a performance penalty compared to regular rockets. 

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4 hours ago, Kanluwen said:

I suggest you read Campaign: Paradiso.

 

Mass driver shots get used by Yu Jing, on Paradiso, to hit what is believed to be Shasvastii command and control facilities.

Ha! He thinks I can read... 

 

But yeah, the difference, as @Eciu said,  is they're hitting an enemy of O12, not the ships, installations and property of O12 member states(well, not directly, if they left stuff near the targets that's too bad...) anyone that goes hammer down on a rival factions ship without approval will need to explain that really well or at very least have a high ranking scapegoat ready to take the fall... 

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2 minutes ago, cazboab said:

Ha! He thinks I can read... 

 

But yeah, the difference, as @Eciu said,  is they're hitting an enemy of O12, not the ships, installations and property of O12 member states(well, not directly, if they left stuff near the targets that's too bad...) anyone that goes hammer down on a rival factions ship without approval will need to explain that really well or at very least have a high ranking scapegoat ready to take the fall... 

That's an absolute 100% assumption. We have not really ever gotten any significant "in depth play by plays" of human faction v human faction stuff.

 

I guess the point I'm trying to bring across is this:

Never say never. Do say "We have not seen this as of yet".

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Fair enough, and since the weapons we're talking about are an order of magnitude above what the game deals with, it doesn't actually matter anyway. 

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I wish the Combined Army was more the "Alien Corporation" muscling its way into Human Markets, rather than the "Enemy of Humanity."  That way the Combined could enjoy the benefits of Mercs and we could get more Alien Mercs.

 

 

 

Please, don't kill me.

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@Section 9 and anyone else who mentioned artificial gravity. Isn't the "creation" of actual gravity purely fantasy, opposed to an idea with any basis in science? I only ask because it seems like the rest of what is being discussed has more scientific basis.

 

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1 hour ago, Danger Rose said:

I wish the Combined Army was more the "Alien Corporation" muscling its way into Human Markets, rather than the "Enemy of Humanity."  That way the Combined could enjoy the benefits of Mercs and we could get more Alien Mercs.

To be fair 'though, you get both.

Because what you've described is basically the Tohaa.

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1 hour ago, Danger Rose said: I wish the Combined Army was more the "Alien Corporation" muscling its way into Human Markets, rather than the "Enemy of Humanity."  That way the Combined could enjoy the benefits of Mercs and we could get more Alien Mercs.

To be fair 'though, you get both.

Because what you've described is basically the Tohaa.

No, the Tohaa are the used car salesmen of the universe. Offering us help that's good to be true.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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On 4/1/2017 at 5:50 PM, Ayadan said:

Boom today :D

Was that a B5 reference?

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On 4/1/2017 at 5:50 PM, Ayadan said: Boom today 

Was that a B5 reference?

Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, Whale said:

@Section 9 and anyone else who mentioned artificial gravity. Isn't the "creation" of actual gravity purely fantasy, opposed to an idea with any basis in science? I only ask because it seems like the rest of what is being discussed has more scientific basis.

Rotational gravity is doable. StarTrek style, not with what we know, maybe never. The picture suggest the ships, bases, etc are huge so they could contain "rings", or it's of the soft scifi kind (scifa).

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Given some of the art I've seen for the setting, I think they have artificial gravity and gravity based propulsion. Look at the backpacks for troops with AD Combat Jump, I'd bet they're some sort of grav-chute.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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The RPG has explicitly discussed artificial gravity systems.

In the free playtest scenario based on the destruction of the orbital above Paradiso where the Tohaa contact treaty was negotiated and signed they mentioned specifically.

But given the operation of Cubes and existence of Sepsitor and Plasma weapons we were already firmly in a "soft" sci-fi setting already.

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Holy cow...so this is what happens to a thread when no new information gets out for a while.....Discussions about Space Weapon Theories and stuff....not bad actually! ;-P

Not too happy to see that people are already starting to antagonize Yu Jing again, even though the Campaign hasn't even started yet.....I guess it would have been asked too much to hope for an equal Diplomatic starting position to everyone else, instead of being everyones Enemy right from the get go once again even though we are at a Blockade against the COMBINED ARMY....who just infiltrated a Nomad Station....

Anyways, as far as I know it isn't in Yu Jings Interest at the current time to hold any old grudges in Regards to Operation Flamestrike (even more so since the Ending of that Campaign basically made everyone of our seasoned players go "Oh come on, that's bullshit.." and kinda made the whole Diplomatic Struggle of the Campaign feel meaningless and fake..) so feel free to hold as many old grudges as you want, blame Yu Jing for everything once again, or whatever you intend to do, but Yu Jing will follow it's own agenda according to the current situation, and won't think back to the nonsense that happened before.

Maybe this time the rules of the campaign will stay the same throughout the campaign, and hopefully Bad/Fake Reports will stay at a minimum this time so that a crap ending like last time can be avoided.

Looking forward to this!

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On 4/2/2017 at 3:36 PM, AdmiralJCJF said:

I always wonder, in sci-fi settings with gravity manipulation, where the gravity manipulation based weapons are?

40K has the Graviton Gun, but that's the only example that comes to mind.

We know from the RPG (including the open playtest scenarios) that the Human Sphere has artificial gravity systems, and that those systems are selective enough to allow parts of a ship or station to have an artificial gravity field while others (a docking bay, for example) do not. That allows for tables where there is some Zero-G in places, but gravity as normal in others.

Probably takes far too much power to run gravitic weapons, beyond what a TAG or even an MBT can pack.

 

On 4/5/2017 at 11:41 PM, Berynius said:

Hmm all that talk about orbital strikes and explosions make me wonder what would happen if the Combined army got control of the Yu Jing frigate. I mean plausibly PanO could turn the defence platform on it and blow it up. saying "We could not allow the defence of the Human Sphere to be compromised so we were not willing to wait and see if Yu JIng was able to regain control"   

Possible, though I'd expect the Yu Jing troops to scuttle the ship before that happened, even if they had to have someone stand on top of the reactor with a D-charge and pull the pin manually.

 

11 hours ago, Matterbeam said:

Sorry to jump in here.
On the Hydrogen Steamer design, there was a following post which described how you could expand the exhaust of a nuclear thermal rocket to invisible temperatures through a nozzle with an extreme expansion ratio.

It would allow a stealth rocket to jet around the solar system with just a performance penalty compared to regular rockets. 

Cool!  I hadn't seen that!

Though you still have the problem of cooling the reactors and lifesection.

 

5 hours ago, Whale said:

@Section 9 and anyone else who mentioned artificial gravity. Isn't the "creation" of actual gravity purely fantasy, opposed to an idea with any basis in science? I only ask because it seems like the rest of what is being discussed has more scientific basis.

Centrifuges are fine (Babylon 5 style), though you need to keep your centrifuges relatively big to keep the RPMs low enough to avoid crew/passenger discomfort.

But actual Trek-style artificial gravity requires either obscene levels of power or obscene levels of mass.  Remember that Einstein says energy and mass are interchangeable, so if you had enough power to approximate a planetary mass (at E=M*C^2 levels of energy!) it'd be possible.  You might also be able to manipulate gravity with lesser power/mass requirements, but the math to describe that is *way* over my paygrade.

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40K:s implementation of gravity weapons is probably the dumbest shit I've heard of in a table top as well. It's functionally a bullet that doesn't care about how gravity, armour or insectoid exoskeletons work at all or for that matter blood flow.

I much prefer the hills* as described in Neal Asher's books where large parts of human infrastructure and protective gear remains standing but human bodies are closer to jam than corpses**.

@Section 9 I don't think gravitons are fully understood, meaning science-fantasy settings tend to hand wave gravity manipulation by simply saying "humans now understand gravitons and it turns out it was really easy after all".

* after an area has been hit by gravitic orbital weapons, it typically leaves behind a hill because the earth will have packed unevenly.

** Book spoiler below, don't click if you intend to read

Spoiler

Turns out a benevolent AI hell bent on unifying mankind against a mysterious external threat will go to some length to bring warring human factions into the fold. Including distributing simple orbit-to-surface weapons of mass destruction. But hey! Gravity bombing is a hell of a lot more ecological than the nuclear or mass driver alternatives!

 

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6 hours ago, Danger Rose said:

I wish the Combined Army was more the "Alien Corporation" muscling its way into Human Markets, rather than the "Enemy of Humanity."  That way the Combined could enjoy the benefits of Mercs and we could get more Alien Mercs.

 

Please, don't kill me.

actually a nice idea for an RPG adventure.

the Avatech corporation is a new corporation that has been on the scene for a couple of years. it is characterized by an aggressive R&D division and actually achieved many discoveries in warmhole phisics and cutting edge theory. There are rumors that say that they are conducting experiments on alien DNA and cubes. Are those rumors true or are they gossip put around by other corporations just to discredit the Avatech?

 

Not so far fetched anyway. Speculo infiltrate the army of each faction, so it could very well be that the CEO of importants Corporations.

also, I can imagine that there are many corporations interested in "how Mnemonica works" and they are for sure conducting experiment on Cubes. What if one of the isolated system is contaminated by a shard of EI?

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