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Spleen

Why do you still play Qapu Khalqi?

58 posts in this topic

There are a lot of beautiful QK models, don't get me wrong, and I like them thematically, but whenever it comes to the nitty gritty of actually playing a game, I find myself perpetually underwhelmed with them these days.

I feel like access to 5 man ghulam links for HB was the final nail in the coffin for QK from my perspective.

The obvious bonus is Yuan Yuans, but then, they are so staple for QK that they are predictable, and I often find the board far more heavily locked down against AD than if I run other factions, I could change it up and spend the 24 points on 2 ghulams instead to make the enemy waste their time locking the table down, but that's not exactly exciting.

I'm very open to the idea that I'm missing something, or maybe it just doesn't suit me, or any range of options, but as it stands I can't see a compelling reason to play QK over HB.

So please, those who are more loyal than me and have stuck it out with them, what do they do well that can't be done better by either another haqq faction or another sectorial somewhere else?

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A bunch of people are probably going to show up on this thread and talk about the Djan link with Hafzas. Even so I don't think the overall capability achieved with it lives up to the brutal stuff that other sectorials can get away with.

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My main answer is because I think they're awesome, but I think you want to hear about stats.

 

I really like the Sekban link. I often use more than 2 Hafza in and out of links. I love Yuan Yuan. I like getting link bonuses on Djan sometimes. I love Iguanas. Al Hawwa are a good AVA boost.

It's not a ton of stuff unique from Vanilla but that's a normal amount for a sectorial.

 

For Corregidor:

I love Wildcat link and sometimes Jaguars. Massacre is great. I like the free duo on Geckos. I haven't used McMurrough much but he is great. There are no useful AVA bonuses IMO.

So basically the same amount of stuff there. It's not much but it changes gameplay a lot.

If you want to compare to Hassassin the list gets very long. Azrail is one of my favorite HI. Hassassin has no link that behaves like Wildcats/Sekban. AHD SK. Bashi Bazooks are huge. Etc.

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@Spleen So what exactly do you find underwhelming about QK? Are you finding them boring? Or not competitive enough compared to HB? I know i haven't seen you down at the local for quite awhile, so it's difficult to tell whether the problem is mechanically, competitively or personally. I think understanding that would help alot more in trying to discover the reason behind your problem.

Kind of why i stopped playing JSA for vanilla. I just got bored of JSA's personality and started appreciating the flexibility of vanilla.

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The Janissary pain train still seems very powerful to me, being able to get full 5 man bonuses by including 2 budget link fillers is very cool. Having a Doctor that can potentially stand them back up with 2 wounds is also very nice.

You can even do pain train + Iguana with points spare for infiltrators, hackers, specialists, and still get to 10 orders, very cool.

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I've always had this issue with QK. None of the Core links that I own really speak to me, and only a few of the solo models do. I still buy their stuff, but it's the more unpainted part of my Haqq collection because I field them so infrequently I don't have the enthusiasm. I favoured Hassassins over them even before N3, just because I like the aesthetic designs a lot more, and that's what draws me to Infinity in the first place. N3 giving them a huge boost was just a bonus.

QK definitely aren't lacking in solid choices, but whenever I make a QK list I finish and sort of think... that's it? But then I haven't had a lot of their staples for a long time - the only Yuan Yuan I own currently is the Red Veil guy, I only own 2 Hafzas and they're not painted, I only have a single Al Hawwa Hacker/FO model, I don't own any Kaplans or Djanbazan. So part of why I have never enjoyed using them might boil down to me choosing the wrong units of their to start with.

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1 hour ago, Vaulsc said:

A bunch of people are probably going to show up on this thread and talk about the Djan link with Hafzas. Even so I don't think the overall capability achieved with it lives up to the brutal stuff that other sectorials can get away with.

I can see this, I've never had much luck though, mostly because I feel compelled to use my core link in QK as an ARO piece due to the lack of minelayers and other options for clogging up the board or otherwise draining first turn orders. And I find Djan a bit too expensive for their lack of staying power in this regard.

@Loricus

Similarly, I certainly see your point, but I feel like QK's non link options are particularly limited, Hawwa don't get minelayers, they can't suppress, Shotgun specialists are nice but it's still a limitation. The AD is nice but it's all very direct and mostly short ranged. The TAGs are both what I'd consider light TAGs (the iguana's a peculiar case since it's lower arm but has an extra wound, still not my cup of tea). The HI is very straightforward and caps out at BS13

So I'd expect the links to be the thing that carry them in terms of interest, but I feel like for every QK link, there's another faction with a more compelling similar link and more interesting support profiles:

I find Bagh Mari a more compelling core option than either KTS or Djanbazan personally
Sekban are nice, they kinda feel to me like bolts who are better at objectives though, which I'm sure Pan O envies, but I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer the drop bears and E/M grenades, and I certainly prefer the support options in Neoterra (plus I'm comparing them to one of the most maligned links in the game so...)
The Jannissary link seems inferior to the Riot Grrl link (but then plenty of things are) 
Odalisques are fairly unique, but as I said earlier, I feel compelled to let my link do some ARO work due to the inability to otherwise impede my opponent when going second, I guess Hafza HRL gives that option, maybe I should explore this more?

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Accidental double post

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I feel similar. They took a lot of QK's special sauce away in HSN3, while everyone else got better. It's not that they're terrible, just a lot less inspiring than they used to be. Some of the nerfs seemed to be for little good reason (no Hafza in merc links, no Azra'il links) while the giving of QK's cool stuff (haris links, Scarface) to other sectorials with not so much good added to QK just makes them feel like yesterdays news. Plus some other movements in the game have kinda left them behind (no infiltrating KHD, more shock). They're OK. Just not great. They could really use a special character or two to spice them up IMHO. I mean, a pirate or merc or Odalisque or Azra'il or Janissary character would be one of the coolest things possible. Seems like one of the best Sectorials for special flavourful special characters to be honest, it's wierd that they don't have any exclusive ones.

Bashi's are better than they used to be (but still overshadowed by Yuan Yuans) and the Hafza HRL is ok, I guess? Agree with you about Jannisarries. Some like em but I don't see how Riots aren't straight out better. The flashpulse ARO overdrive (5 link with FO ghulams + 3 flashpulse bots + Rafiq + EVO - potentially plus 2 TR bots) is still a fun one. Works well with Yuan Yuan too. Dunno you're that high an order count guy though.

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Qapu is still great and unique, just not shiny or novel anymore.

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I have not actually played QK but is the Janissary link that bad with a few hafzas?

I like the idea of being able to buy a Brigade or Iguana to paint up to put in my force. QK is right now my future change up if I get bored with vanilla Haqq.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Sure, N3 and HSN3 took away a lot of their "special sauce" list building-vise. 

But I still like them. I have chosen them - my first army - for their fluff, and the Men of the Gate, protectors of the Silk trade, are still what they were in that department.

Sure, in time I've buildt a Corregidor force, and supplemented my Haqq range with models to effectively have a Hassassin army too, and I alternate betwen these three (with good chance of widening my choice to cover Ramah once these are released as an army). But the QK remains my first army :)

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1 minute ago, Dorrance said:

I have not actually played QK but is the Janissary link that bad with a few hafzas?

I like the idea of being able to buy a Brigade or Iguana to paint up to put in my force. QK is right now my future change up if I get bored with vanilla Haqq.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Janissary link is exellent and variable. For example I like a Jan Doc, Hafza HRL and Hafza FO. 5 Jan is also great. 3 Jan and 2 Hafza is really good, but not the gamebreaker some people make it out to be.

But well distributed AP and Shotguns, plus a linked Doctor is enough to put them squarely in the 'solid' category. Hafza are just a bonus. Plus you get a  HMG instead of a spitfire, which is down to preference, but I like it.

 

I actually think Brigada are good to take on their own, as they get cubes for your Akbar Doc and can take flamethrowers. Plus you get to paint it green!

 

Iguana is great. Remember the repeater. I suggest trying it with a Druze link and taking a Killer and Assault hacking device. Even Nomads will sweat.

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1 minute ago, Dorrance said:

I have not actually played QK but is the Janissary link that bad with a few hafzas?

I like the idea of being able to buy a Brigade or Iguana to paint up to put in my force. QK is right now my future change up if I get bored with vanilla Haqq.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not bad, it's just not THAT good, or rather, not THAT cheap.

You're looking at 141 points for a link of: HMG, Missile, Shotgun, Hafza FO, Hafza Rifle+LSG

For comparison, Bakunin can put together a Riot link for 156 with: Spitfire, Missile, Shotgun (with tinbot), Specialist, Combi
For only 15 points extra they pick up MSV1 and Hyper Dynamics, plus they don't have to worry about having more vulnerable 1 wound link members to hide

Most other factions that are doing HI links in a serious setting are doing it at around this 150 mark too, Hospitallers/Magisters, Wu Ming, Domaru/Haramaki, they are all pretty similar to Janissaries, only marginally more expensive, and often have their own compelling reasons to be taken (such as hospitaller BS 14 or Wu Ming mines)

Janissaries are fine, but they aren't exactly a rewarding reason to choose QK over other factions.

P.S: I know they get akbar doctor, and it's kinda cool, but I find their cubeless status generally means I only use doctor plus, and if you put an akbar doctor in the link instead of the shotgun Janissary what slim points advantage they muster basically evaporates in the 10 point bump.

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@Spleen every faction in the game has at least one unit that is similar but better than the Qapu version.

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16 minutes ago, Spleen said:

For comparison, Bakunin can put together a Riot link for 156 with: Spitfire, Missile, Shotgun (with tinbot), Specialist, Combi
For only 15 points extra they pick up MSV1 and Hyper Dynamics, plus they don't have to worry about having more vulnerable 1 wound link members to hide

This is how nearly every heavy infantry link feels after that unsightly fanboy-wishlist Riot Grrrl update.

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Here is an example of what you can put toghether IN THE SAME LIST with Qapu. Not the best list but worth to be tryed:

Link with Hafza/Djanbazan = visor 2 link with defense agaist white noise, that goes in combo with yuan yuan. Djamba have doctor AND regeneration...And if You never tried a HRL 5man link...try it, it's amazing!

Scarface (here is a "resident" tag, not only for this year)

Infiltrator hawwa hacker wip 14 d charges etc...he alone can win games and protects scarface + other good specialists wip14

AD troop with holo 2 for surprises and suppressive fire behind enemy lines with AP/Shock ammo

3 yuan yuan ...

With minor changes you can put an EVO, for +3 landing para troopers

logo_403.png Qapu Khalqi
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.pngorden_irregular.png1  
logo_7.pngDJANBAZAN HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
logo_7.pngDJANBAZAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_7.pngDJANBAZAN Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
logo_13.pngSCARFACE & CORDELIA TURNER . (1.5 | 68)
 sep.giflogo_13.pngSCARFACE 2 Mk12, Panzerfaust / AP CCW. (1.5 | 51)
 sep.giflogo_13_2.pngSCARFACE Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0)
 sep.giflogo_13_3.pngCORDELIA TURNER Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
logo_10.pngHAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_3.pngBASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
logo_14.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.pngorden_irregular.pngorden_impetuosa.png3
logo_21.pngFANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_1.pngGHULAM Hacker (Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20)
logo_11.pngYUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 8)
logo_11.pngYUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 8)
logo_11.pngYUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 8)

6 SWC | 299 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

Many other factions have stronger troopers, bute they can't put them together in the same list...

Bahram is strong, but no visor 2, same for Bakunin; against heavy smokers army that can be a serious problem (dogs?).

 

 

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3 hours ago, Spleen said:

It's not bad, it's just not THAT good, or rather, not THAT cheap.

You're looking at 141 points for a link of: HMG, Missile, Shotgun, Hafza FO, Hafza Rifle+LSG

For comparison, Bakunin can put together a Riot link for 156 with: Spitfire, Missile, Shotgun (with tinbot), Specialist, Combi
For only 15 points extra they pick up MSV1 and Hyper Dynamics, plus they don't have to worry about having more vulnerable 1 wound link members to hide

Riot Grrl have Frenzy discount on par with Steel phalanx links.

i think QK is fine as it is, it's a strong sectorial on par with Corregidor. Both don't get fancy tools, but they get the rusty hammer that do the job, and that's sufficient.

(on that, QK gets more "fancy tools" than Corregidor, for example)

if you want ODD-MSV3- G:syncro etc troops, you should change sectorial/army

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Honestly @Spleen . It just sounds like your playstyle has changed and QK is no longer the faction that supports your new playstyle. The big sign of this i see is when you start looking/ comparing other factions to what you have and wishing you had that instead.

Just jump on that Bakunin train. I saw you eyeing it up. 

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if you want fancy tools bakunin isn't even the faction i'd suggest, however.

maybe YJ or CA?

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44 minutes ago, Darkvortex87 said:

if you want fancy tools bakunin isn't even the faction i'd suggest, however.

maybe YJ or CA?

Spleen is in my gaming group. And he is looking at Yu Jing last i heard. But he was messing around with some proxied Bakunin last time i saw him. That's where the comment came from.

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Then by all means, @Spleen, go for the YJ. Or Bakunin, if you prefer so. Or both - after all, why not?

I mean, it is a game. It is about having fun. If you feel the QK isn't giving you the same level of fun it used to, why not change the pasture (at least for some time)? The grass on the other side of the fence might be greener and tastier (or at least, it will be different) than here. Try it, have fun, get your spirits up. Don't force yourself.

I'd suggest against getting rid of your QK models, though. Because I'm pretty convinced that you'll be back to them one day, and while the YJ or BJC or whatever else will have the "wow new stuff!" appeal, the QK will be like putting on your old, well-broken, comfortable marching boots. 

Luckily, prices for Infinity models are reasonable enough to allow (most of us) to have more than one army :)

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7 hours ago, Hachiman Taro said:

 They could really use a special character or two to spice them up IMHO. I mean, a pirate or merc or Odalisque or Azra'il or Janissary character would be one of the coolest things possible. Seems like one of the best Sectorials for special flavourful special characters to be honest, it's wierd that they don't have any exclusive ones.

Yesss! CB please make a character Janissary :woohoo:! He/she/it could have some cool and fancy skill like Strategos (commander character) or CoC (gruff old veteran) or just plain old NWI.

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I'm afraid lack of CoC in QK is a designed, intended weakness. The Bahram has an easy access to CoC (in a non-character form, even!). Strategos, I guess, the same. There is one Strategos in Haqqislam, and it is the Saladin himself.

In my eyes QK is the place for a plethora of colourful characters, way more than Hassassins are. However, it is the Bahram who get special characters exclusive to their list (Husam Yasbir and Hussein al-Djabel), while QK is the ugly redheaded stepchild there - we have to share Scarface & Cordelia with everyone else (save for Caledonia and of course Combined Army), and Leila with Bahram (fluff-wise Scarface Team are Mercs aligned, IIRC, with the stars company, and Leila has a Daylami background, so again closer to Bahram than anyone else).

But well, it was like that since the QK came out in the original HS, and there isn't much signs it is going to change. We have to bear with it.

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These skills were just from top of my head ideas as examples of some rare spec skills that could be unique in QK :) . Strategos lvl1-2 or CoC on a 40+ pts HI wouldn't be that abuseable, but I know there are thematic restrictions across the Sectorials.

Exotic skills aren't even neccesary, weapon options could also work like Breaker Rifle and/or Nanopulser for some BTS damage. Just something that would make a cool unique (and useable) Janissary character in the game :)

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