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Why do you still play Qapu Khalqi?

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Cool unique character. Any.

I mean, there are so many colourful units in QK - Bashi Bazouks, Hafza, Odalisques, Sekban, Djanbazan, Jannissaries, Kaplan, Azra'il, even the Druze...

 

...actually, frack, there would be potential to have a Fat Yuan Yuan character! Sure, 99% of the Yuan Yuan are lean & mean, but there could be that oddball fat one who looks nothing like you'd expect a warrior, but remains a legend in the community - burping, farting, stinking pirate you can hire, if you dare - and who keeps on fighting against all odds (excellent place for a NWI).

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So let's see... I shouldn't play Qapu Khalqi because we don't have cheap heavy infantry links like JSA and Bakunin, unique special weapons like NeoTerra or Caledonia, Chain of Command like Hassassins, and powerful unique characters like Phalanx?

Good thing the rules apparently allow me to play all six of those sectorials simultaneously and reap the benefits of all of them at once with none of the weaknesses, otherwise I'd be in a real pickle!

Qapu Khalki is great at what it does, and what it does is be very adaptable by Sectorial standards, with a little bit of coverage of everything.  Yeah, if you compare the Druze to the Muyibs you'll be disappointed, and if you compare KTS to Bagh Mari you'll be disappointed, and if you compare the Iguana to a "full TAG" you'll be disappointed (and remember, Scarface stops being universal after this season), but QK lacks the constraint on playstyle that is inbuilt into more thematically-limited sectorials like ASA or, yes, Bakunin.  Appropriately, QK is the Hafza of Sectorials; looking across the table, you don't know quite what you're going to face until it starts shooting at you on the table.

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9 hours ago, Errhile said:

Cool unique character. Any.

I mean, there are so many colourful units in QK - Bashi Bazouks, Hafza, Odalisques, Sekban, Djanbazan, Jannissaries, Kaplan, Azra'il, even the Druze...

Yeah, this is actually fairly disappointing. The only characters are a mercenary TAG and a Dire Foe available to so far every army list for Haqqislam. As much as I love Leila in Hassassins, I think limiting her to QK the way they limited Yasbir to Hassassins would have been a better choice.

But yes, there's so, so many ways they can go with a unique character or two for QK. Maybe that's the problem, choice paralysis? To paraphrase something I read a long time ago, 'When given the chance to do anything, I tend to do nothing'.

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A distinctly Qapu character would do a lot for the faction.

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1 hour ago, Loricus said:

A distinctly Qapu character would do a lot for the faction.

Agreed, Scarface was one of the reasons I got QK, and now he works for almost everyone (ironically not my Caledonia :( )

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Thinking off the top of me head, stuff that would be cool to see:

A Sekban officer that counts as a Sekban for linking, like Rao. Maybe make him a CQB type model, a veteran of the caravansary massacre where they fought in ships.

An Odalisque CC specialist. They've got i-Kohl, but that's more of a deterrent than something to actively use. Let her link like a Hafza, showing her bodyguard specialisation.

A Jannisary hero. Give him some unique big gun (well unique to Haqq) and some fun equipment.

An Azra'il who specialises in fighting lots of lighter enemies rather than fighting armoured enemies. Utilise the concept of the old AP Rifle Azra'il. Give him an AP Rifle and Light Flamethrower integrated into each gauntlet and a shoulder mounted Panzerfaust (yes I essentially want Warmachine and think the Azra'il armour would be badass for it).

That doesn't even go into mercenary characters, but I'd like to see a distinctly Haqqislam character for QK rather than another mercenary.

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I find that wishlisting for specific features is generally a recipe for disappointment.  At this point I consider QK to be a "finished" sectorial and anything that CB deigns to give us is honestly gravy, irrespective of what it exactly it constitutes.

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That's part of the problem I think. Since they talked up QK as "finished" they feel kinda stale, as well as behind the times in a few ways, and it doesn't help that their last update was to get comparatively weaker. It's a sour note to finish on.

I'd love a CC Odalisque! Or a character Bashi! Something new and exciting to mix things up a bit.

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1 minute ago, Hachiman Taro said:

I'd love a CC Odalisque! Or a character Bashi! Something new and exciting to mix things up a bit.


I love that idea.  With ihop they are already decent in combat, but their low CC means they aren't reliably going to hit anything back.  Having a character with higher CC and a CC weapon of some kind, then give them specialist operative to make a full Oda link a little more appealing.

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2 hours ago, TwoDee said:

I find that wishlisting for specific features is generally a recipe for disappointment.  At this point I consider QK to be a "finished" sectorial and anything that CB deigns to give us is honestly gravy, irrespective of what it exactly it constitutes.

Only if it's the selling feature that you really want. There's other reasons I haven't found my feet with QK which I already mentioned. I just think there's some cool avenues for named characters they could go and I'm more disappointed that they just haven't taken any of them, rather than disappointed they're not actually made. Seems like a huge missed opportunity.

They spent so long making unique characters for the Homeric faction, which makes sense, then made no effort to make them for the pirate and corsair faction, which makes no sense.

I like that Azra'il character idea so much I'm thinking of making him for the RPG,

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Units like Sekban and Druze have been rebalanced entirely to be modern. Druze, Bashi, Hafza, Jannisary and Djanbazan have new equipment that was previously non-existent or rare.

That's not including Odalisks, who had the Haris SWC rebalanced to keep modern. Or Brigada. Or the new character. Or that Holo 1 in link was updated, something only relevant to Qapu. Or the Hafza linking rules.

We'll see if they actually never get more stuff, but I couldn't expect them to keep up the pace of Qapu updates that we've been getting. So far, when they come out with new equipment they add something to Qapu to keep modern.

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I'm a Hassassin Bahram player, and even with the boosts to Bahram, I -still- feel Qapu Khalki is more powerful. The reasons:

- They've got MSV2. Whenever I play Bahram, people drench me in smoke, ODD or cammo because I simply have no good counter for that.

- Yuan Yuan.

- Bashi Bazouks.

- Janissary Pain Train.

- AVA3 on the Fanous remote (i.e, dirt cheap orders and amazingly fast moving repeaters).

- Hafzas, and their ability to be plugged into any link.

- Infiltrating Hackers (and a Heavy Infantry Hacker, to boot)

- Limitless order monkeys (Ghûlams AVA Total, Alguacils, AVA3 Fanous remotes, Hafzas, etc), whereas the best Bahram can do is 1 Fanous, 2 Barids, and 4 Ghulams.

Sure, Bahram is good now, but they are much, much harder to play than Qapu Khalki because they're an order-starved glass cannon with a ton of weird irregular troops. Whenever I proxy stuff so I can play Qapu Khalki I feel much more able to go toe to toe with Aleph and other stuff that almost always crush me when I play Bahram. Maybe it's because I suck at playing Bahram or something, what do I know, but I certainly enjoy Qapu Khalki.


 

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@Natsymir

Dont forget about the Kameel for cheap orders. 

 

On topic, I find Quapu boring, but it is powerful. The ability to run two almost full combat groups, each with a good Fireteam, is really strong. Hafzas are just great. Fill a Link up cheap or bring a specialist where no one is available or add a HRL for fun stuff. 

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18 hours ago, Natsymir said:

I'm a Hassassin Bahram player, and even with the boosts to Bahram, I -still- feel Qapu Khalki is more powerful. The reasons:

- They've got MSV2. Whenever I play Bahram, people drench me in smoke, ODD or cammo because I simply have no good counter for that.

- Yuan Yuan.

- Bashi Bazouks.

- Janissary Pain Train.

- AVA3 on the Fanous remote (i.e, dirt cheap orders and amazingly fast moving repeaters).

- Hafzas, and their ability to be plugged into any link.

- Infiltrating Hackers (and a Heavy Infantry Hacker, to boot)

- Limitless order monkeys (Ghûlams AVA Total, Alguacils, AVA3 Fanous remotes, Hafzas, etc), whereas the best Bahram can do is 1 Fanous, 2 Barids, and 4 Ghulams.

Sure, Bahram is good now, but they are much, much harder to play than Qapu Khalki because they're an order-starved glass cannon with a ton of weird irregular troops. Whenever I proxy stuff so I can play Qapu Khalki I feel much more able to go toe to toe with Aleph and other stuff that almost always crush me when I play Bahram. Maybe it's because I suck at playing Bahram or something, what do I know, but I certainly enjoy Qapu Khalki.


 


To be fair, you'll make the same list of things that Hassassin has and Qk doesn't.

-Fidays

-Ragiks, one of the best drop troops in game

-Mutts.  I'll say it louder, MUTTS!

-Access to viral ammo

-Chain of command

-Muyibs, arguably  the most versatile LI out there

-Good amount of access to Holo2, including gunslinging, badass HI.


The point is, comparing two factions by saying that one has different things available is moot.   Outside of LI I rarely see a Bahram list lower that 16-20 orders, so they can't be that starved for orders.  The lack of MSV2 hurts, but it is not a game-breaker.  If you do enjoy QK more then go ahead and make the jump, but Hassassin definitely isn't short on tools to get the job done.
 

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21 hours ago, Natsymir said:

I'm a Hassassin Bahram player, and even with the boosts to Bahram, I -still- feel Qapu Khalki is more powerful. The reasons:

- They've got MSV2. Whenever I play Bahram, people drench me in smoke, ODD or cammo because I simply have no good counter for that.

- Limitless order monkeys (Ghûlams AVA Total, Alguacils, AVA3 Fanous remotes, Hafzas, etc), whereas the best Bahram can do is 1 Fanous, 2 Barids, and 4 Ghulams.

Sure, Bahram is good now, but they are much, much harder to play than Qapu Khalki because they're an order-starved glass cannon with a ton of weird irregular troops. 


 

I edited down this information to a few points that I'd like to address. I started with QK then branched into HB. 

re: Smoke, it mainly helps your opponent in the active turn. Unless they can combine it with Stealth, 20 points worth of Ghazis is a better cost tradeoff than any amount of Djanbazan IMO. In the reactive turn, your goal is to control the board and waste your opponent's orders, right? What controls the board better than 4 16" diameter isolation bubbles, landmines starting in the marker state (Farzan Minelayer)? What wastes your opponent's orders better than the aforementioned units, plus an impersonation marker or two set up in a threatening but difficult to access position?

RE: Orders, many HB units don't really require a large number of orders to be effective, but we have AVA2 Kameel baggage bots as well for the 8-point orders. In addition, HB has the ability to run multiple strong links (Ghulam defensive link, Muyib offensive link, Muyib + Asawira Haris) improving that order efficiency.  

IMO, the way to play HB is with less symmetrical engagement than QK. QK lets you take large defensive links for AROs but has limited reactive turn options for board control. HB has absolutely phenomenal reactive turn pieces (Ghazis, Daylami, and Farzan Mine Layers for board control, Fidays for wasting enemy orders. Honorable mention the optional 5-man Ghulam link with Leila) and arguably better active turn pieces (Muyibs, Asawira, and Fidays). 

 

If you try HB again, try them using this linebacker philosophy of wasting enemy orders with your cheap-as-dirt irregulars plus the odd impersonator for the psychological warfare games, then drilling your opponent hard with a tough link team and/or Haris. 

 

 

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21 hours ago, the huanglong said:

I think an odalisque hacker would go a long way. It's an easy fix too.

I'd much rather an Odalisque Doctor, and would be more in theme with both Haqqislam and their role as bodyguards. They're already very handy in a fight, so being medically trained would be logical if their ward takes a hit.

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26 minutes ago, Triggerpuller9000 said:

What controls the board better than 4 16" diameter isolation bubbles, landmines starting in the marker state (Farzan Minelayer)? What wastes your opponent's orders better than the aforementioned units, plus an impersonation marker or two set up in a threatening but difficult to access position?

Don't forget Daylami, either providing camo markers on the enemies doorstep or long range disposable panzerfaust fire threatening to at the very least land a lucky crit, all for 8 points.

It's a huge part of what started this thread for me, I don't like a list if I don't feel I have options for going second and impeding my opponent these days, and I just feel like HB gives me so much of that whereas QK gives me nothing outside of link boosted AROs and TR bots.

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Which sounds like, as said earlier, your playstyle has evolved beyond what QK offers. Which is fine - when you play one sectorial for so long, you'll eventually tire of what it offers. The very nature of a sectorial is it limits options to create a theme, both aesthetically and in overall playstyle. Right now you just enjoy the playstyle Hassassins are offering you.

Just have fun with Hassassins and leave your QK at home for when you feel like playing them again.

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I often pick second turn. Maybe most often.

Two of my main reactive peices are Azrail Feuerbach and Hafza HRL (usually unlinked).

If that sounds bad you might have gotten used to some crutches.

Sometimes people think you need MSV2 to be balanced. Sometimes smoke. Sometimes ODD. Sometimes Chain of Command. Each time it's a crutch.

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I think its actually a ply style issue for QK. Haqqislam has always been for me the faction of asymmetric trades, and QK bucks that. They seem to me to be more like the morats, sure they have some tricks, but they are predictable, and there real power lies in have some big bad tools to just knock you down in the form of a fireteam for every job.

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