AdmiralJCJF

So, How Do We Feel About Repacks?

98 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, PsychoticStorm said:

And it sells extremely well to support the effort of been kept into production.

Not so stupid really.

Prove it.

 

Where are the specific sales figures for Interventor(female)?

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I'm really surprised that the old Interventor is still in production.  It's really showing its age, and the new models are awesome.

Then again, I would not have guessed that CB would choose to keep those old ORCs in circulation--repacking them, even!--rather than giving us a box of updated ORCs to match the one from Icestorm.  

I'm sure that in both cases they sell enough of the old sculpts to justify keeping them around, but I won't be buying them.

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Orc's, I would rather have them sooner than later, but later it is, oh well, I can wait, repacks while we wait is a logical step.

The interventor does not show her age if she is selected as a paint project and I am guessing most sales come from there some may come from people wanting just one Interventor, but they are, my guess here, a minority, Bostria has admitted in past seminars that Interventor and Catgirl Daktary sell extremely well to painters and this is why they  are around, since both models are still around the situation has not changed.

 

 

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2 hours ago, MittenNinja said:

But they aren't taking up regular release spots, we've got 5 brand new releases plus these repacks.

I think the point is that the first blister and the second blister both took up a release slot for aleph, wheras if they were both released at the same time in this box aleph would have gotten something else for that second release slot. Aleph had a dry spell of like 2 years as far as box sets went from Scyalla and Draikos in early 2015? until the new post humans in 2017. Inbetween they only (rarely) got a new blister.

@Kanluwen I love, and still love the old interventor. When I started in 2015 I picker up her INSTEAD of the the interventor box. The old intervertor art is Iconic of the game, and I really dug it and I wanted that model. Also unless you're playing tunguska, its pretty rare to need 2 interventors, so being sold as a single model (which may end) is a plus as well. Admittedly now that they have cheapish KHD profiles I'm trying to make myself take more.

Not sales figure, completely anecdotal, but at least makes sense, and I can see how others might feel that way too.

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1 hour ago, deltakilo said:

the main reason I dont like it is I assume it means those models getting repacked are a fair way off resculpt. outside of that it doesnt bother me and If it makes retailers jobs easier I am all for it.

Yeah, that's the real pity I feel.

14 minutes ago, PsychoticStorm said:

The interventor does not show her age if she is selected as a paint project and I am guessing most sales come from there some may come from people wanting just one Interventor, but they are, my guess here, a minority, Bostria has admitted in past seminars that Interventor and Catgirl Daktary sell extremely well to painters and this is why they  are around, since both models are still around the situation has not changed.

Yeah, a lot of those old models suffer from their paint jobs.

I'm expecting the repainted old ORC sculpts which Angel was working on to look pretty amazing.

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1 hour ago, AdmiralJCJF said:

Yeah, a lot of those old models suffer from their paint jobs.

I'm expecting the repainted old ORC sculpts which Angel was working on to look pretty amazing.

Not the case with the ORCs.

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2 hours ago, Kanluwen said:

Prove it.

 

Where are the specific sales figures for Interventor(female)?

I mean, what's your counter-argument? That they just arbitrarily kept an old figure in the line because it's a favorite of theirs, despite offering a replacement and retiring its companion? That also demands proof.

And as we always come to in these conversations, CB has some info, distributors have some info, and individual stores have some info. Nobody makes a practice of sharing their sales numbers publicly, so they cannot be used to prove or disprove any claims. 

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17 minutes ago, ToadChild said:

I mean, what's your counter-argument? That they just arbitrarily kept an old figure in the line because it's a favorite of theirs, despite offering a replacement and retiring its companion? That also demands proof.

Realistically, the counter argument is "look at CB's history of decision making". It all comes down to what they want to do.

 

That's really all I feel I need to say.

Quote

And as we always come to in these conversations, CB has some info, distributors have some info, and individual stores have some info. Nobody makes a practice of sharing their sales numbers publicly, so they cannot be used to prove or disprove any claims. 

Sure, the figures themselves can't be used--but that's the whole point I was trying to get across.

 

Anyone who claims they have the definitive answer is full of excrement. You can speculate all you want, but don't come in here trying to shut down my speculation as though you have some kind of "inside knowledge" when we all know that CB doesn't publish sales figures or track things in any reasonable way that outsiders have access to.

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It all really comes down to price for the consumer. If there's a reasonable discount for buying a double pack it's possibly a win win. If its a barely disguised margin grab, not so much.

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Having worked in logistics and stores, SKU bloat IS a thing, and anything to reduce it is a good thing. 
(we had about 12,000 product lines). 

CB are going to do what CB are going to do, regardless.  They do what's best for THEIR bottom line, and if it's something the customer base likes, that's also good.  If the customers don't like it, they can either put up with it and bitch and moan about it, or just not buy it (and bitch and moan about it).  The B&M won't change anything.  "Pleasing EVERYONE is impossible, but pissing them all off is a piece of cake"
 

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Sure, but that doesn't mean you have to pretend a decision they make for them is a good thing for you. Even if you love their game and / or don't mind so much.

On the upside I wonder if this will Herald more new release models overall, as double blisters replace singles in the new release shedule.

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I see something I like, I buy it.   If I see a pose I hate, I bitch about it for 2-3 days online, then I consider if I really need the model.  I then get the model probably 25% of the time.   When I see something I like, I buy it.  

Rinse, and repeat.

I do understand the need to reduce bloat on the shelves, but I miss the days of having to get less boxed sets.   Perhaps, and I know it is heresy to many, the answer is less releases?

 

 

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I don't like it. I normally need only few models out of entire box. Maybe, if they re-did the packing logic I'd reconsider. Multiple possible arms would also go a long way.

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Feel good. Need both ORCs because my other ORC is ancient too. Need both Zerats. Corvus Belli need less SKU. I have no problems doing trades, giving people models as favors or whatever if I have extras. Rarely end up with extras anyway. I convert stuff despite metal being a pain to convert. I've been collecting for 7 years and I have about 5 spare models.

18 hours ago, Hachiman Taro said:

It all really comes down to price for the consumer. If there's a reasonable discount for buying a double pack it's possibly a win win. If its a barely disguised margin grab, not so much.

I think this is a pretty good general guideline.

Kanluwen, you should be an activist shareholder, man! Whoooo hooooo!

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So long as they're not hurting release slots that's fine by me

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Given the choice, I'll always take a double blister or a box over a solo blister provided there are relative cost-savings.  I love all Infinity models with few exceptions, so having more Infinity models isn't an issue for me provided they're not standout stinkers like the old Croc Man or Volunteer grenadier.  If I'm placing myself in the mind of a new player, I want to "fill out" my faction anyway, and stuff like double-orcs or double-ninjas let me do that.

In a perfect world, I'd love for Infinity to be the kind of game that I can sell to a new player as "buy a starter box, a SWC box, two double blisters, and you've got a perfectly viable tourney list."

However, it remains to be seen exactly how much the double blisters affect MSRP, which is the make or break moment for me.

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1 hour ago, TwoDee said:

 

In a perfect world, I'd love for Infinity to be the kind of game that I can sell to a new player as "buy a starter box, a SWC box, two double blisters, and you've got a perfectly viable tourney list."

Still can.   Play YAMS 1.1.  It's a lot of fun.

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On 4/10/2017 at 10:00 PM, chromedog said:

SKU bloat IS a thing, and anything to reduce it is a good thing. 

That would imply CB packaging all their mini's into one box set would be advantageous. Clearly that's not the case.

On 4/10/2017 at 8:55 PM, Kanluwen said:

Realistically, the counter argument is "look at CB's history of decision making". It all comes down to what they want to do.

Anyone who claims they have the definitive answer is full of excrement. You can speculate all you want, but don't come in here trying to shut down my speculation as though you have some kind of "inside knowledge" when we all know that CB doesn't publish sales figures or track things in any reasonable way that outsiders have access to.

Exactly^, CB's decisions are not necessarily the best decisions simply because they made them. The idea that a mini is kept in production or repackaged because it sells is an assumption. 

Double blisters seem like an attempt to move old stock to me. Sell mini's at a discount when bought in bulk. Some combos might be a new or popular model with a less popular or old model (Ninja's). Others might be two less popular mini's and hoping the discount gets them sold (Orc's). The danger... some sales may be lost because certain single mini's are effectively more expensive now.

SKU bloat seems like such a terrible excuse to justify anything. If a product sells well and makes a retailer money, the SKU system seems very unlikely to be an issue. The only thing CB needs to concern itself with is creating a quality product people want to buy. How that product is packaged and incentivized is another element to help people buy it. Basing decisions from the perspective of SKU bloat seems short sighted and ineffective. That's another reason I'm speculating CB is simply trying to sell old stock with their double blisters.

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7 minutes ago, Jujoji said:

The idea that a mini is kept in production or repackaged because it sells is an assumption. 

An assumption based on CB staff telling us this is the case for certain models. The Catgirl Daktari for example, has been described as an consistently well selling model by both Carlos and Gutier which is why it remains on sale despite having a newer sculpt available.

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15 minutes ago, Col said:

An assumption based on CB staff telling us this is the case for certain models. The Catgirl Daktari for example, has been described as an consistently well selling model by both Carlos and Gutier which is why it remains on sale despite having a newer sculpt available.

Yes, some assumptions can be correct while others are not. I guess I don't see your point. If a mini sells well and is kept in production, good for CB? If that model is moved into a double blister when it's selling well on its own there is probably a reason. I've stated those reasons in my last post. Reducing SKU bloat is extremely low on my assumptions as to why.

 

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23 minutes ago, Jujoji said:

SKU bloat seems like such a terrible excuse to justify anything. If a product sells well and makes a retailer money, the SKU system seems very unlikely to be an issue. The only thing CB needs to concern itself with is creating a quality product people want to buy. How that product is packaged and incentivized is another element to help people buy it. Basing decisions from the perspective of SKU bloat seems short sighted and ineffective. That's another reason I'm speculating CB is simply trying to sell old stock with their double blisters.

As someone with over a decade of b2b sales and retail management experience please trust me when I say that this is objectively wrong.

SKU bloat in a line is a MASSIVE issue and it's a VERY valid justification for consolidating a line.

Obviously it can be taken too far, but the idea of pairing similar units into two-packs and others into 4 mini boxes is an excellent example of good consolidation in action.

That it also offers discounts for purchases is another bonus.

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5 minutes ago, AdmiralJCJF said:

As someone with over a decade of b2b sales and retail management experience please trust me when I say that this is objectively wrong.

SKU bloat in a line is a MASSIVE issue and it's a VERY valid justification for consolidating a line.

Obviously it can be taken too far, but the idea of pairing similar units into two-packs and others into 4 mini boxes is an excellent example of good consolidation in action.

That it also offers discounts for purchases is another bonus.

So you're telling me a retailer would not carry a product if the SKU bloat was terrible even though it was the worlds number one product and sold almost instantly? I find that extremely hard to believe. The massive issue you see is a minor one imo. So i fail to see how I'm objectively wrong.

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Just now, Jujoji said:

So you're telling me a retailer would not carry a product if the SKU bloat was terrible even though it was the worlds number one product and sold nearly instantly? I find that extremely hard to believe. The massive issue you see is a minor one imo. So i fail to see how I'm objectively wrong.

Obviously not.

But they might only carry part of their line.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is also objectively wrong.

SKU bloat is harmful to retailers, wholesalers and manufacturers. Rationalising stock lines in the way CB are is both sensible and necessary.

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