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Commander Richard

Men of the Gate

36 posts in this topic

Hello,

I was playing around the Army Builder and I came up with the following list:

logo_403.png Men of the Gate
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png
logo_2.pngODALISQUE (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
logo_2.pngODALISQUE Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 30)
logo_4.pngHAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
logo_21.pngFANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_21.pngFANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_17.pngNAJJARUN Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png10 
logo_9.pngJANISSARY HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 40)
logo_7.pngDJANBAZAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_4.pngHAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
logo_25.pngLEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
logo_1.pngGHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
logo_14.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
logo_14.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
logo_14.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

5.5 SWC | 299 Points

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Is there any shiny toys I left due to ignorance?

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Hmm... who do you intend to make your Core Fireteam up...?

Also, I see little point in bringing in the Najjarun - IMO that's 20pts ill-spent, and the #1 Combat Group could use more than just 6 Orders. 

And it wouldn't be bad to have a Camo Infiltrator and / or Airborne Deployment in your list.

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43 minutes ago, Errhile said:

Hmm... who do you intend to make your Core Fireteam up...?

First things first: thank You for the feedback, It is well appreciated!

Hafzas will team up with Janissary, Djanbazan, Leila Sharif on demand.

43 minutes ago, Errhile said:

Also, I see little point in bringing in the Najjarun - IMO that's 20pts ill-spent, and the #1 Combat Group could use more than just 6 Orders. 

Najjarun repairs the remotes and bring an engineer to the party to accomplish missions. (All specialists are covered this way.)

But I agree 6 orders seems a little bit lowish.

Mayhaps I should rearrange the list and put the cheerleaders (rocketeer Hafza and three Alguacils) into the first group?

43 minutes ago, Errhile said:

And it wouldn't be bad to have a Camo Infiltrator and / or Airborne Deployment in your list.

Expending the Najjarun I get 21 points (and 0.5 SWC) to play around.

I understand I should invest this in Yuan-Yuans, Bashi Bazouk and/or Hawwa.

Could You please advise regarding the reshuffling?

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35 minutes ago, Commander Richard said:

Hafzas will team up with Janissary, Djanbazan, Leila Sharif on demand.

In that case they could also team up with the hafza on demand. I'm not sure about using a Core team that only have 3 members. I guess it could also be a meta thing. (like table setup that unfavor large link team. everyone locally using effective tactic to rip linkteam so you want to invest in non-link team too.)

35 minutes ago, Commander Richard said:

All specialists are covered this way

There are few missions where you actually need each specialist as you can often swap the classified for Secure HVT or for mission specific abilities. If keeping the engineer, I don't think a nasmat is needed as there are only two 8-pts remotes to repair (actually, i guess you could repair the doctor's nasmat lol) and nasmat doesn't help with the mission objectives.

Leila is awesome :) 

PS - I play QK as a secondary faction, I don't have much experience, and I probably have a bakunin playstyle bias.

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16 minutes ago, Robock said:

In that case they could also team up with the hafza on demand. I'm not sure about using a Core team that only have 3 members. I guess it could also be a meta thing. (like table setup that unfavor large link team. everyone locally using effective tactic to rip linkteam so you want to invest in non-link team too.)

Thank You for the additional feedback, It is well appreciated!

I always had problems moving a full 5-man fireteam making sure everybody is within the ZoC of the linkleader. This is less of table setup, more my own lack of ability to guess the distance correctly. In the current setup I can relatively easily move at least 2 of the 3 hafzas close enough to the link leader and not worried too much about moving them out of the link.

As a side-note, I firmly believ that the most valuable bonus of the fireteam is the increased burst (especially in the reactive turn). SSL2 is handy but not a gamechanger (especially during the active turn when I hope to use the Janissary, Djanbazan, Leila and the rocketeer Hafza extensively), and the +3 BS is overpriced to my liking. (I mean 5 trooper is a huge amount of points cost and if one of the guys go down, You can say Au revoir! to Your nice link bonus.)

Indeed, I am not a conventional player.

24 minutes ago, Robock said:

There are few missions where you actually need each specialist as you can often swap the classified for Secure HVT or for mission specific abilities. If keeping the engineer, I don't think a nasmat is needed as there are only two 8-pts remotes to repair (actually, i guess you could repair the doctor's nasmat lol) and nasmat doesn't help with the mission objectives.

Notice that including the Najjarun I have only 5 specialists. That is half as many as I normally field. The versatility of the specialists is a nice bonus. But fielding only four (4) specialists... makes me more than nervous. (Five gives me OMG feeling.)

Maybe It's just me but too many of my specialists were gunned down ruthlessly and I just envy the cool toy that is the Nasmat overly.

27 minutes ago, Robock said:

Leila is awesome :) 

Saw her. Loved her. Uxia McNeill is on the verge of being a bit jealous. (For no reason, of course.)

30 minutes ago, Robock said:

PS - I play QK as a secondary faction, I don't have much experience, and I probably have a bakunin playstyle bias.

I probably have an Ariadnan playstyle bias...

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If this is meant for ITS, I lack experience in that particular scenario system. I play 20x20, with enough YAMS on my back to know about that one too. At least in 20x20 you can do without an Engineer.

As Robock says, there are just 2 Fanous REMs for him to repair (or any model that gets EM-ed, but apart from the REMs and Janissary, that isn't going to ground them). Definitely, Engineer is not adding much here: basically there is nothing to gain by reparing 8pts REMs in a 3-turn-long game. Almost certainly you'll spend more Orders on reparing them than you're going to get from them further in the game. 

Now, as you prefer to have small fireteams (for me, it is 5 models in a Core every time I can pull that off...), it mainly depends on how much you'd allow the list to be restructured. Since you want your list, and not my list...

Ah, but let me interrupt to drop down an important line: the list you've presented is absolutely playable. Means, you can take it to the table. Play it. Win with it. Yes, you can win with the list above. Assuming you have adequate understanding of Infinity rules, the ability to read the terrain layout, a grasp on the general tactics of Infinity gameplay... basically, things that will come with experience. Plus a bit of dice luck, in this game it is a sine qua non requirement ;). 

I mean, I could absolutely win with this list!

However, I consider it suboptimal. And - which will not be taken into account - not my style. But there are several styles of writing a lsit, and the a number of styles of using a list. Any of them is good if it makes for a satisfactory gameplay.

Now, as for trying to optimise the list above, let me take a shot:

logo_403.png Men of the Gate
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png7  
logo_2.pngODALISQUE (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
logo_2.pngODALISQUE Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 30)
logo_4.pngHAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
logo_21.pngFANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_21.pngFANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_1.pngGHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_23.pngKAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png9  orden_irregular.png1  
logo_21.pngFANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 40)
logo_7.pngDJANBAZAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_4.pngHAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
logo_25.pngLEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
logo_14.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
logo_14.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
logo_3.pngBASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

What I did and why I did it:

  • I sacked the Najjarun, and put in two more 8pts REMs (3rd Fanous, and a Kameel) for Orders. 
  • Replaced one of the Alguaciles with a Bashi Bazouk for cheap yet reasonably tough AD capability.
  • I was left with 3pts to spend - I was tempted to upgrade one Alguacile to a FO, but eventually decided agaisnt that, and gave the Doc another Nasmat. This way, she can now act in 3 places on the table at the same time.
  • Finally, I swapped places between the Ghulam Doc and one Fanous REM, so Group #1 will be able to do anything useful even if the Odalisque Haris is out of action.

Final note: I'd suggest using Layla solo, as you'll be then able to fire up her Cybermask software, and use her as an Impersonation Marker. It is not the same as a Camo Infiltrating Specialist, but still pretty useful.

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6 minutes ago, Errhile said:

If this is meant for ITS, I lack experience in that particular scenario system. I play 20x20, with enough YAMS on my back to know about that one too. At least in 20x20 you can do without an Engineer.

As Robock says, there are just 2 Fanous REMs for him to repair (or any model that gets EM-ed, but apart from the REMs and Janissary, that isn't going to ground them). Definitely, Engineer is not adding much here: basically there is nothing to gain by reparing 8pts REMs in a 3-turn-long game. Almost certainly you'll spend more Orders on reparing them than you're going to get from them further in the game. 

Many thanks for the extensive analysis! It is awesome!

I agree there is not much to repair for the engineer, but 1) can push buttons 2) solves missions and 3) removes ADL - a couple times I promised myself not to leave home without an engineer after being hit by adhesive...

Point taken, of course!

13 minutes ago, Errhile said:

Now, as you prefer to have small fireteams (for me, it is 5 models in a Core every time I can pull that off...), it mainly depends on how much you'd allow the list to be restructured. Since you want your list, and not my list...

I asked for Your advice. And I am grateful to get it! That is pretty much what I was asking for!

For the record I prefer small fireteams because I am really, really bad in moving a large fireteam an keep everyone in 8 inches...

13 minutes ago, Errhile said:

Ah, but let me interrupt to drop down an important line: the list you've presented is absolutely playable. Means, you can take it to the table. Play it. Win with it. Yes, you can win with the list above. Assuming you have adequate understanding of Infinity rules, the ability to read the terrain layout, a grasp on the general tactics of Infinity gameplay... basically, things that will come with experience. Plus a bit of dice luck, in this game it is a sine qua non requirement ;). 

To be honest I strongly prefer playing. Winning is nice but playing makes me more excited. And that is the reason I asked for Your advice. I simply cannot resist bringing all the shiny toys QK offers. Still I wanted a list that is not an overly suboptimal list. I mean my opponent want to play a game that is not an easy win for him because It is no fun.

17 minutes ago, Errhile said:

I mean, I could absolutely win with this list!

I take It as a compliment! ;-)

18 minutes ago, Errhile said:

However, I consider it suboptimal. And - which will not be taken into account - not my style. But there are several styles of writing a lsit, and the a number of styles of using a list. Any of them is good if it makes for a satisfactory gameplay.

Now, as for trying to optimise the list above, let me take a shot:

logo_403.png Men of the Gate
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png7  
logo_2.pngODALISQUE (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
logo_2.pngODALISQUE Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 30)
logo_4.pngHAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
logo_21.pngFANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_21.pngFANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_1.pngGHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_23.pngKAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png9  orden_irregular.png1  
logo_21.pngFANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 40)
logo_7.pngDJANBAZAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
logo_4.pngHAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
logo_25.pngLEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
logo_14.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
logo_14.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
logo_3.pngBASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

What I did and why I did it:

  • I sacked the Najjarun, and put in two more 8pts REMs (3rd Fanous, and a Kameel) for Orders. 
  • Replaced one of the Alguaciles with a Bashi Bazouk for cheap yet reasonably tough AD capability.
  • I was left with 3pts to spend - I was tempted to upgrade one Alguacile to a FO, but eventually decided agaisnt that, and gave the Doc another Nasmat. This way, she can now act in 3 places on the table at the same time.
  • Finally, I swapped places between the Ghulam Doc and one Fanous REM, so Group #1 will be able to do anything useful even if the Odalisque Haris is out of action.

Final note: I'd suggest using Layla solo, as you'll be then able to fire up her Cybermask software, and use her as an Impersonation Marker. It is not the same as a Camo Infiltrating Specialist, but still pretty useful.

Thank You again for the input! I more or less get the message! All the changes are more than reasonable! The only thing I would change is upgrading one Alguacil to an FO (as You also considered) because that would bring the number of specialists to five. Maybe It's just me but one more Nasmat does not seem to be as good as another specialist.

Notice that we play ITS and I never ever said to myself 'If only I had less specialists on the table!'

Last note: been hit by cybermask. Nasty. Want It!!!

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1 hour ago, Errhile said:

Finally, I swapped places between the Ghulam Doc and one Fanous REM,

The doctor forgot his nasmat behind in group #2 ;)

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1 hour ago, Robock said:

The doctor forgot his nasmat behind in group #2 ;)

Ooops...

Still, as @Commander Richard said, still a possibility to swap him for a FO upgrade for his Alguaciles.

Regarding two Nasmats: keep in mind this allows your Doc to doctor fallen models in three places at once (well, almost). Station the Nasmats in different parts of your DZ, and there is a good chance one will be witihn a single Move distance from a wounded trooper. This works towards Order-efficiency of oyur doctoring. Especially in positions that require a lot of time to get to (on my tables, these are rooftops or upper floors of buildings, usually). 

Sure, no point in wasting Orders on bringing grunts back into the game (for the same reason there was little point in repairing REMs), but sometimes you need, for example, the Djanbazan's MSV L2 and Sniper Rifle back on his feet and fighting - and going for a Doctor Plus skill gives a way better chance of success than trying Regeneration.

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5 hours ago, Errhile said:

and the #1 Combat Group could use more than just 6 Orders. 

It just looks that way, swap the combat group # and it's a normal high order list. 10 and 6 is pretty good.

4 hours ago, Robock said:

I'm not sure about using a Core team that only have 3 members

It's pretty common with a Haris. Otherwise you end up with almost every unit linked and there are many advantages to lone models.

 

I think the list looks perfectly good. I mean I don't leave home without an Azrail but that's just me. It's at least good enough to not cause difficulties. This list would never be the reason you lost.

I would probably just link the Hafza with the Jan so I can position the Djan and Leila freely instead of closer. Especially the Djan as the sniper needs more careful deployment.

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5 hours ago, Commander Richard said:

 

Thank You again for the input! I more or less get the message! All the changes are more than reasonable! The only thing I would change is upgrading one Alguacil to an FO (as You also considered) because that would bring the number of specialists to five. Maybe It's just me but one more Nasmat does not seem to be as good as another specialist.

Notice that we play ITS and I never ever said to myself 'If only I had less specialists on the table!'

Last note: been hit by cybermask. Nasty. Want It!!!

It also depends on the ITS mission, this year's Interplanetario could potentially be won without any specialists, and at least one mission actively penalises specialist spam! 

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10 hours ago, Col said:

It also depends on the ITS mission, this year's Interplanetario could potentially be won without any specialists, and at least one mission actively penalises specialist spam! 

More Nasmat for the killy missions, FO Alguacils for button pushing missions. Got the message. Thank You!

12 hours ago, Loricus said:

I think the list looks perfectly good. I mean I don't leave home without an Azrail but that's just me. It's at least good enough to not cause difficulties.

Your comment regarding the Azrail made me curious. I see him as a Janissary with better ARM and AP for the HMG but without the ability to form a fireteam. As far as I can see the burst bonus is golden and well worth the loss of AP. I would never swap the Janissary for an Azrail. Could You please comment on what I am overlooking?

12 hours ago, Loricus said:

I would probably just link the Hafza with the Jan so I can position the Djan and Leila freely instead of closer. Especially the Djan as the sniper needs more careful deployment.

I have high hopes I can position all these three troopers and the three Hafzas in a way that any of the three will be able to form a fireteam (that is all three troopers will be no further than 8 inches from at least two of the Hafzas.)

Leila seems to me an able hacker but in case her lacking good targets for hacking (no enemy hackers in sight) I plan to abuse her marksman rifle.

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@Commander Richard

I take Sekban Core so I don't have that to spare.

A burst would be better but you need to at least use up Core and 2 Hafza. Without that the AP is a huge help. Azrail is really cheap compared to that.

As a bonus you get Cube so Jannisary can reroll failed Akbar Doc checks. And you can use suppression fire without breaking the link.

 

I actually usually take the Feuerbach to improve ARO with EXP shots and better rangeband. I took it for coolness but ended up making good use of it. With high ARM you often have enough orders to get a shot through, or at least guts behind cover if the target is too hard to hit back.

If he shoots ARO an average of 5 times a game (conservative guess) he usually gets an ARO hit every 4thish game (rough estimation). With Feuerbach it means they're dead or have valuable wounds off while the HMG just needs one lucky ARM roll to negate it.

In most the other games they have to spend the time to move the right unit in position just to get no or 1 wound off, effectively wasting ~4 orders without even removing the danger. If I have a good shot back I'll even try to stay around to waste more orders. This part is true for AP HMG as well, although slightly less because snipers can get his BS lower.

The games that he is efficiently killed without using many orders or taking damage are the least common.

 

I highly suggest using the AP HMG when you want to use your Core on something else though. It gives you high offensive firepower for very low cost.

 

Edit: to be fair, if it weren't for the cost decrease (esp. SWC) I probably wouldn't find it worth it. But it's there so I do. I still take AP HMG depending on how my list goes, but I don't take defensive links so I need the ARO potential.

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Regarding forming the fireteams - remember that each Fireteam forming up costs you a Command Token. And you have no more than 4 of these. 

In short, the Funduq Body Shuffle ;) isn't nowadays what it used to be back in 2ed.

As for Leila, I've laready mentioned: launch her Cybermask software ASAP. It will protect her, and give her Surprise shot capability.

Regarding Azra'il, these guys are tough. I mean, ARM 5, in cover (and they're way easier to find cover for than a TAG!)making an effective ARM 8. They can shrug lots of bullets. The W 2, and a Cube - even if you can't afford an Akbar Doc (Janissary), an Azra'il is going to make either a fine bullet magnet, or perfect thorn in your opponent's foot. These guys aren't very mobile, but they pack long-ranged weapons with lots of hitting power. The Feuerbach actually gets close to sniper rifle and missile launcher in practical terms, and outranges a HMG.

Definitely, I'd advise to playtest (eg. by proxy) them a few times. While more than one tends to be a serious burden on your budget, point- and SWC-wise, it is doable, too (I remember going all-out, with a HMG, Feuerbach, Janissary Doc to care for them, and a well-equipped Sekban Core as assault element. It wasn't easy with all those ODDs, but in the end, I kicked some Steel Phalanx butts, including Achilles).

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5 minutes ago, Errhile said:

(I remember going all-out, with a HMG, Feuerbach, Janissary Doc to care for them, and a well-equipped Sekban Core as assault element. It wasn't easy with all those ODDs, but in the end, I kicked some Steel Phalanx butts, including Achilles).

Good thing you had Sekban, nothing dulls their boots like a squad full of B2 DTW. Except MSV of course :P

 

If you're a painter anyways you can get the Azrail HMG because jeez that model.

280477-0551-special-deterrance-group-azr

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Well, while Azra'il is a fabulous model, I personally found that I dislike painting models larger than S2. Takesm e too much time and effort.

I still do, of course, but the most recent (Al Fasid HMG) I really felt heavy on my enthusiasm.

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That's funny, I really prefer them. One project instead of trying to get a few smaller ones at once. I'm the same way with tanks in my (same scale) ww2 game.

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Hi, may I suggest that you need;

1. more AD troops for disturbing enemy deployment. (Cheap and effective Yuan Yuan)

2. Two camo infiltrators for designating objectives in frontline (Hawwas)

3. Aggressive hackers for cyber warfare.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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8 hours ago, cibili said:

Hi, may I suggest that you need;

1. more AD troops for disturbing enemy deployment. (Cheap and effective Yuan Yuan)

2. Two camo infiltrators for designating objectives in frontline (Hawwas)

3. Aggressive hackers for cyber warfare.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You certainly do have a point, but that would go completely across the grain with OP's idea for his list...

 

 

Apart from that - I've found a post with that twin Azra'il list on the DataSphere:

This one went through Stiopa's Phalanx like... nope, not going to use this comparison ;)

logo_403.png Qapu Khalqi
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png10  
logo_8.pngAZRA'IL AP HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 41)
logo_8.pngAZRA'IL Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY Akbar Doctor (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Heavy Rocket Launcher, Chain-colt / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
logo_10.pngHAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png1  
logo_2.pngODALISQUE Submachine gun, Contender, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

I've later had the idea to swap the Odalisque and Hafza for a Janissary Lt, but it was finally a good idea not to: the Odalisque provided me with a reserve, 11th Order I was able to transfer into the main Combat Group.

Roles here: 
- the Azra'ils are there to provide long-range fire support (though the HMG one can also shorten the distnace and lay suppressive fire). Against, well, anything.
- the Janissary Doc is there primarily to keep the big guys going (via Nasmats). With his Akbar Doctor and Azra'il's Cubes, he should be doing well. He's also a Specialist.
- the Sekban are the major offensive force, though of course the MOV 4-2 isn't the perfect choice. Actually it was a close assault with a Shotgun that finished the game. They also have a Doc to keep them going and to fulfill Objectives.
- al'Hawwa. Camo Infiltrating specialist is always good. He doubles as problem-solver, too.
- Hafza Lt. He's just hiding there. Mine pretended to be a second Odalisque.
- Odalisque. with 360-Visor and SMG, she's a nasty way to set up a Suppressive Fire. Otherwise, she's there as a secondary offensive piece and backup Order.

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On ‎2017‎.‎04‎.‎19‎. at 11:17 AM, cibili said:

Hi, may I suggest that you need;

1. more AD troops for disturbing enemy deployment. (Cheap and effective Yuan Yuan)

2. Two camo infiltrators for designating objectives in frontline (Hawwas)

3. Aggressive hackers for cyber warfare.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank You for the feedback. These were more or less my initial thoughts and were mostly in line with the suggestions of the other contributors.

Regarding Your first two suggestions I can swap the remotes for a couple of Yuan Yuans and the Najjarun for a Hawwa. Shaving a couple of points off I can make him a hacker (or go for the cheap and get a FO). In this case the four cheerleaders (3 Alguacil and the rocketeer Hafza) would be relocated to the first group to fuel a Yuan Yuans and the fireteam. (Mayhaps swap the Hafza for an secound Hawwa.) The downside is the core body shuffling fireteam will be pretty low on orders.

I do not fully understand Your last suggestions. I already included Leila Sharif and two repeaters. In case I see viable targets (enemy hackers), she can go after them. If not, she has alternative uses aplenty. In case You suggest me to include AHD or HD I decline with all due respect. KHD has a marvellous feature in the cybermask. I would not give up this for the occasional opportunity of hacking a HI or a TAG because chances are pretty high my opponent will not field any of them or guard them well.

18 hours ago, Errhile said:

You certainly do have a point, but that would go completely across the grain with OP's idea for his list...

Not completely, but You certainly have a point... ;-)

18 hours ago, Errhile said:

Apart from that - I've found a post with that twin Azra'il list on the DataSphere:

This one went through Stiopa's Phalanx like... nope, not going to use this comparison ;)

logo_403.png Qapu Khalqi
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png10  
logo_8.pngAZRA'IL AP HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 41)
logo_8.pngAZRA'IL Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY Akbar Doctor (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_22.pngNASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Heavy Rocket Launcher, Chain-colt / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
logo_10.pngHAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_4.pngHAFZA Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png1  
logo_2.pngODALISQUE Submachine gun, Contender, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

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I've later had the idea to swap the Odalisque and Hafza for a Janissary Lt, but it was finally a good idea not to: the Odalisque provided me with a reserve, 11th Order I was able to transfer into the main Combat Group.

Roles here: 
- the Azra'ils are there to provide long-range fire support (though the HMG one can also shorten the distnace and lay suppressive fire). Against, well, anything.
- the Janissary Doc is there primarily to keep the big guys going (via Nasmats). With his Akbar Doctor and Azra'il's Cubes, he should be doing well. He's also a Specialist.
- the Sekban are the major offensive force, though of course the MOV 4-2 isn't the perfect choice. Actually it was a close assault with a Shotgun that finished the game. They also have a Doc to keep them going and to fulfill Objectives.
- al'Hawwa. Camo Infiltrating specialist is always good. He doubles as problem-solver, too.
- Hafza Lt. He's just hiding there. Mine pretended to be a second Odalisque.
- Odalisque. with 360-Visor and SMG, she's a nasty way to set up a Suppressive Fire. Otherwise, she's there as a secondary offensive piece and backup Order.

Seems like a funny list. No Funduq Body Shuffle, however makes this list not as funny as mine. ;-)

One question: why the Sekban fireteam? Odalisque fireteam with Hafza FO and a rocketeer Hafza seems to me more effective...

On ‎2017‎.‎04‎.‎19‎. at 9:56 AM, Errhile said:

Regarding forming the fireteams - remember that each Fireteam forming up costs you a Command Token. And you have no more than 4 of these. 

In short, the Funduq Body Shuffle ;) isn't nowadays what it used to be back in 2ed.

Bad for me I am totally into this Funduq Body Shuffling!

On ‎2017‎.‎04‎.‎19‎. at 9:56 AM, Errhile said:

Definitely, I'd advise to playtest (eg. by proxy) them a few times.

'Never ask for advice of experienced players before playtesting!' - said no good player ever.

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35 minutes ago, Commander Richard said:

One question: why the Sekban fireteam? Odalisque fireteam with Hafza FO and a rocketeer Hafza seems to me more effective...

Frankly, no idea. It's been quite a while since I played that game (and wrote that list). Sekban are certainly slower on their feet than Odalisques, but with ARM 3 and in-team Doc, they provide a different kind of staying power.  Plus, perhaps, I decided it was the Sekbans' turn to get a game.

And - I don't have a Hafza HRL model, yet I prefer to keep to WYSWIG if possible. I mean, proxying is okay, I just prefer not to do it.

Bah, I could dig out my Janissary Core list, if you're interested. Not much finesse, but it kicks butts just fine :)

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2 minutes ago, Errhile said:

Frankly, no idea. It's been quite a while since I played that game (and wrote that list). Sekban are certainly slower on their feet than Odalisques, but with ARM 3 and in-team Doc, they provide a different kind of staying power.  Plus, perhaps, I decided it was the Sekbans' turn to get a game.

Thank You for the swift reply. I have a strong bias towards the girls. NWI is huge when it comes to staying power and the Nasmats can get to the fallen Odalisques quite quickly, I presume.

4 minutes ago, Errhile said:

And - I don't have a Hafza HRL model, yet I prefer to keep to WYSWIG if possible. I mean, proxying is okay, I just prefer not to do it.

Currently nobody has a Hafza HRL model.

9 minutes ago, Errhile said:

Bah, I could dig out my Janissary Core list, if you're interested. Not much finesse, but it kicks butts just fine :)

I would appreciate it! I'm totally fine with butt kicking in place of finesse! ;-)

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1 hour ago, Commander Richard said:

Currently nobody has a Hafza HRL model.

Unless they've converted one. Which I intend to do, as soon as the model I bought for that purpose has its old paintjob removed :P

Same way I have a full range of Janissaries that does not include the N3-era Janissary sculpts. It does, however, include 2 BSGs, a Doc and a ML... Etc, etc. :P

I'll dig out that list for you :)

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7 minutes ago, Errhile said:

Unless they've converted one.

Where do You intend to get a HRL? I have quite a few spare weapons (HMG, BSG and the like) from spec ops boxes, but no HRL...

9 minutes ago, Errhile said:

I'll dig out that list for you :)

Thank You in advance!

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Well, here's the list, in its most basic incarnation:

logo_403.png Qapu Khalqi
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png10  
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Lieutenant AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN (Fireteam: Haris) AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Heavy Rocket Launcher, Chain-colt / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 37)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY Akbar Doctor (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY AP Rifle + Light Shotgun + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 37)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 31)
logo_10.pngHAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_19.pngSHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)

5.5 SWC | 299 Points

Open in Infinity Army

But if you prefer the HMG Janissary, then, for example, it can look like that:

logo_403.png Qapu Khalqi
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png10  
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Lieutenant AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN (Fireteam: Haris) AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
logo_6.pngSEKBAN Heavy Rocket Launcher, Chain-colt / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 40)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY Akbar Doctor (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY AP Rifle + Light Shotgun + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 37)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 31)
logo_9.pngJANISSARY Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 31)
logo_10.pngHAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_19.pngSHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_irregular.png1  
logo_24.pngWARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

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Naturally, this one won't work as a Limited Insertion list, unless you sack the WarCor (he's not essential, merely a way to utilize these 3 points)

5 hours ago, Commander Richard said:

Where do You intend to get a HRL? I have quite a few spare weapons (HMG, BSG and the like) from spec ops boxes, but no HRL...

Thank You in advance!

I split an additional box of Hassassin Govads with a pal (he took the gals, I took the lads. And "extra", because I had one already), and made them up into two additional Govad riflemen (there's only one in the box, one of the gals) I needed to be able to reasonably field a full team. I can link you a few photos, if you'd like.

Doing so, I carefully cut them up as needed. Ended up with half of a BSG and an almost complete ML. There's little difference between Haqq HRL, and ML, right? 

Now all I need is to graft it onto a Hafza (because it it a launcher, and a Hafza can't have a Missile Launcher anyway - so he just has to be the HRL Hafza), and paint it. I even have a suitable Hafza (the "deal with it" crossed-arms pose) ready to be washed clean (I got him on a second-hand market) - originally, I considered using a Spitfire Hafza, but I decided it would require too much cutting, filing and greenstuf antics (I'm not good enough in that area to feel comfortable about it).

...as the experience teaches us, I'll finish painting the HRL Hafza, and witihn four weeks CB will be releasing sniper shots or early photos of their great nice HRL Hafza sculpt :P

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