Yasashii Fuyu

Giant activity drop?

166 posts in this topic

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to ask if your factions have experienced a gigantic drop in activity as well (as the graphs would indicate) or if this is just a Yu Jing thing and everyone else is just banking their reports for the giant drop at the 27th? I know I am basically giving classified info away or whatever, but Yu Jing actually isn't banking any reports at the moment....our factions activity just somehow dropped by at least 50-60% in the last week or so....did the same thing happen in your factions as well? Is it the 40k 8th edition drop that caused this? The heatwave in europe (at lest around my areas), or campaign fatigue? frustration with phase 1?

And if others have experienced this as well.....maybe CB should rethink the date for the secret objectives? Or the scale? or whatever...?

If Yu Jing actually is the only faction where this occured and everyone else is just going at full throttle anyways, just ignore what I wrote I guess ;-P I was just wondering if maybe an adjustment to the scale of the campaign is needed if our playerbase suddenly experienced such a huge drop after phase 1....

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AFAIK the same thing is happening with CA. There was a lot of interest at the beginning of the campaign but then it dropped off. People are still playing games... they're just not playing Wotan missions/documenting their games for the campaign. 

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There was a big event this weekend in Utah, so the UT ARO Club really slowed down on the Wotan games. Just bad timing for us, I think. Next week will probably be better.

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You're not the only one. At some point, people simply get tired of spamming games. Trying to hold and take locations exhausts people, especially when there is a grudge match like between Ariadna and Nomads. The result is a pyrrhic victory. The losing side gets to make some noises about containing the sepsitorisation (like they would anyway) and the winners... uh, keep their turf.

And then the location blows up so WTF.

When you think about it, to get one game in you need:

1 hour set-up and travel

2 hours on average for a short game, our can drag on for over 3.

Writing up batreps: 2 hours for a decent one. Adding in photoshop will double that.

I was up til 1am doing a decent batrep for my Baijing consulate game. And all we get are vague assurances from @Beasts of War - Warren that "it counts." Meanwhile it was a draw, 1 measly point towards 300 points and as of this morning at best Haqqislam is only 1/3 of the way to their goal.

5 more weeks of this? Frack that.

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Hmmm well at least now I know we are not the only ones...makes one wonder though, what's the big difference to Flamestrike? In Flamestrike it was basically the same wasn't it? long grinding battles for several areas...sure back then zones didn't change at some point, but does that make such a giant difference that all of a sudden a good chunk of the player base outright stops playing? Is the frustration already at the level that it was near the end of Flamestrike O.o?

I especially don't get it in Yu Jing, our community was actually quite active and seemed to enjoy themselves, not much crying going on in the forums, we didn't lose any important areas yet, sure our secret objective sucks badly, but who cares...and still, such a giant drop....it's odd.

@Lampyridae: True, writing good reports takes forever, especially with the site's wonky bugs (having to upload each picture twice cause first time always fails for example)...and doing so 1-2 times every week is quite taxing, but that part actually isn't much of a problem for me, and I think it's not the reason why so many people suddenly stopped playing, after all most of the participants in the campaign only write average quality reports, which shouldn't take longer than half an hour to produce....making the extra work to participate in this campaign rather low...

 

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Honestly I've been playing more than ever, but I've been continuously spending more and more time on batreps seeking those sweet internet kudos, so my batreps have slowed even though my games have picked up.

I do think that across the board we're seeing a dropoff of the "non-core" players.

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We've had drops across the board I think, but there's been tournaments on and a few other factors.

Still, I do think that there's been a bit of a missmatch between the different description of what we could expect upfront, and the "basically Flamestrike" reality.

There's been a fair share of drama in some factions, and others got off with a hiss and roar but seem to have lost all their key players. The dropoff seems pretty consistent across the factions however, so perhaps it's more than the "within faction" factors too.

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20 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

@Lampyridae: True, writing good reports takes forever, especially with the site's wonky bugs (having to upload each picture twice cause first time always fails for example)...and doing so 1-2 times every week is quite taxing, but that part actually isn't much of a problem for me, and I think it's not the reason why so many people suddenly stopped playing, after all most of the participants in the campaign only write average quality reports, which shouldn't take longer than half an hour to produce....making the extra work to participate in this campaign rather low...

 

I think it's also the lack of... agency, for lack of a better word? One of the fun things about games it that you do things, you see a result, you get "feedback," basically. You've got the campaign staff saying that feedback won't be coming until the end of the campaign, more or less... and it's not like the phase 2 fluff even really acknowledged anything that had happened up 'till then. 

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5 minutes ago, Hecaton said:

I think it's also the lack of... agency, for lack of a better word? One of the fun things about games it that you do things, you see a result, you get "feedback," basically. You've got the campaign staff saying that feedback won't be coming until the end of the campaign, more or less... and it's not like the phase 2 fluff even really acknowledged anything that had happened up 'till then. 

Do you think it would have helped for the end of phase 1 to have applied the AI historian system (whatever that is, it adjusts graphs), and then a summary or news broadcast to describe what went on so far? Could that have re-ignited the gaming passion? What if three days into the second phase, the "facts" came out as to the "real" state of affairs (changed graphs) and players saw something like a GM driven narrative update?

Not sure if possible, just wondering if that would have kept the gamer's spirits/enthusiasm up.

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5 minutes ago, DiceHex said:

Do you think it would have helped for the end of phase 1 to have applied the AI historian system (whatever that is, it adjusts graphs), and then a summary or news broadcast to describe what went on so far? Could that have re-ignited the gaming passion? What if three days into the second phase, the "facts" came out as to the "real" state of affairs (changed graphs) and players saw something like a GM driven narrative update?

Not sure if possible, just wondering if that would have kept the gamer's spirits/enthusiasm up.

Would probably have helped. Or run it every Sunday evening or something. It felt a lot like I was driving the numbers up for the campaign organizers' benefit and nobody else. 

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Hmmmm I am not sure about this as I am not convinced at all that the fluff of this campaign is what has lead to this drop in activity, but to be fair this scenario is what I actually thought would happen when the campaign started...I fully expected the A.I: historian to get applied after each phase so things are set straight and impact at the end would be lowered, I could have sworn this was mentioned by BoW or CB at some point as well, but I guess that was just wishful thinking of my subconsciousness..

Interesting though, so you guys actually think it's the narrative and campaign management that lead to this drop in activity? Personally I would have attributed most of it to 8th edition dropping O.o

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35 minutes ago, DiceHex said:

Do you think it would have helped for the end of phase 1 to have applied the AI historian system (whatever that is, it adjusts graphs), and then a summary or news broadcast to describe what went on so far? Could that have re-ignited the gaming passion? What if three days into the second phase, the "facts" came out as to the "real" state of affairs (changed graphs) and players saw something like a GM driven narrative update?

Not sure if possible, just wondering if that would have kept the gamer's spirits/enthusiasm up.

I'll tell you what part of the reason is.

Phase 1 was characterised by a 3-way betrayal involving Nomads, Ariadna and ALEPH. A heroic defence of Sygtir-1 by PanO.

Then in the fluff we get something about everyone's mad at Yu Jing, who basically did nothing but try to hold onto their territory.

Nothing we did counted. Not even a line of text. People (including me) were sour at that, but it's not a video game.

Now, this is 10-20% of the reason. The remainder is that people are simply exhausted. It takes a lot of effort to do these things, and a lot of gamers are making up a lot of time to a lot of annoyed partners. People had not planned for games past Phase 1, and were waiting on secret objectives to figure out what to do next. Initial enthusiasm and novelty has worn off. So, 50% exhaustion and 30% novelty.

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It is important to note that we DID see similar patterns of activity in Flamestrike.

Weeks of high activity were often followed by weeks with lower numbers of games reported.

This is, perhaps, to be expected.

I think that the "Phase One" structure actually maintained numbers longer than they naturally might have, which might also be causing a deeper "dip" than we saw before.

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So my issue so far has been threefold;

- The missions i've played have been quite complicated and make the game longer in a way thats not super fun.

- Writing quality bat rep that won't be discarded is more time.

- I only have one person to play with who usually beats me, so to play in the campaign is to actively help my side lose.

 

Granted me being bad at the game, and having not as much time to put into bat reps is part of the tapestry of my life choices and not a reflection on how CB runs their campaign.

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Yeah try to relax a bit, from my personal perspective tgese campaigns are supposed to fit into your normal routine of gaming (maybe a little extra as you get more opportunities to play) if you love your whole battle reporting thing then there is plenty of oppotu ity to spend a bit of time on that to unlock extra xp and bonus points for your faction. Otherwise the briefing rooms are there to enjoy the banter and reactions. (It's not supposed to be a extra job, so if you are finding that - slow down :) and take it easy)

After phase one all the historian stuff was run and sent as comparison charts to CB so that is all there, and Carlos is in the studio with us this week so I'm sure we can get a look at them and perhaps film something with him.

Other than that it's a similar pattern to what we have always seen in these things, so I wouldn't let it bother you :)

Remember it's just for fun, if your 'exhausted' you have forgotten that - so slow down and enjoy the bits you enjoy :)

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12 minutes ago, AdmiralJCJF said:

It is important to note that we DID see similar patterns of activity in Flamestrike.

Weeks of high activity were often followed by weeks with lower numbers of games reported.

This is, perhaps, to be expected.

I think that the "Phase One" structure actually maintained numbers longer than they naturally might have, which might also be causing a deeper "dip" than we saw before.

Yup, TV series that debut are exactly the same. Massive interest at first, which peters out then it picks up for the finale. Then the second season struggles to pick up steam. That's why so many anime series are only 13 episodes and end with barely any plot resolution.

Mostly it is the format, but the Mass Effect 3 feel will affect activity for the rest of the campaign. People will continue to play their own games but rather stick to their own narratives. One of our players was complaining that he wanted to "rescue" his Lieutenant after he lost in a Hunting Party game. So in that sense, it's good.

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1 minute ago, Beasts of War - Warren said:

Yeah try to relax a bit, from my personal perspective tgese campaigns are supposed to fit into your normal routine of gaming (maybe a little extra as you get more opportunities to play) if you love your whole battle reporting thing then there is plenty of oppotu ity to spend a bit of time on that to unlock extra xp and bonus points for your faction. Otherwise the briefing rooms are there to enjoy the banter and reactions. (It's not supposed to be a extra job, so if you are finding that - slow down :) and take it easy)

After phase one all the historian stuff was run and sent as comparison charts to CB so that is all there, and Carlos is in the studio with us this week so I'm sure we can get a look at them and perhaps film something with him.

Other than that it's a similar pattern to what we have always seen in these things, so I wouldn't let it bother you :)

Remember it's just for fun, if your 'exhausted' you have forgotten that - so slow down and enjoy the bits you enjoy :)

Hmmm.....so you are saying that the current drop in activity fits with previous campaign experiences of yours and there's really is nothing unusual going on? In that case that's actually good.....not for the secret objectives of course, I reckon quite a few factions which had lower numbers to begin with will fail theirs because of this, which will most likely greatly influence the outcome of this campaign....but if this really is just the normal up and down which is always going on at least there's still hope for things improving in the coming few weeks...

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

Hmmm.....so you are saying that the current drop in activity fits with previous campaign experiences of yours and there's really is nothing unusual going on? In that case that's actually good.....not for the secret objectives of course, I reckon quite a few factions which had lower numbers to begin with will fail theirs because of this, which will most likely greatly influence the outcome of this campaign....but if this really is just the normal up and down which is always going on at least there's still hope for things improving in the coming few weeks...

All a campaign really does is get people out there and playing. This weekend we had a braai and played a bunch of games and had some great laughs. It was way more relaxed and fun than a tournament but there was still something to be gained: honour for your faction!

Besides the gaming, there's the creative juices. @Nazroth's godawful Dong Peyote miniature for a start. Crazy videos. IC smack talk. By the way @AdmiralJCJF deserves a Bell's for making all the other factions hate PanO like they should instead of congralutory back-slapping them for being shining heroes. :)

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2 minutes ago, Lampyridae said:

All a campaign really does is get people out there and playing. This weekend we had a braai and played a bunch of games and had some great laughs. It was way more relaxed and fun than a tournament but there was still something to be gained: honour for your faction!

Besides the gaming, there's the creative juices. @Nazroth's godawful Dong Peyote miniature for a start. Crazy videos. IC smack talk. By the way @AdmiralJCJF deserves a Bell's for making all the other factions hate PanO like they should instead of congralutory back-slapping them for being shining heroes. :)

Oh I wholeheartedly agree, this campaign is mostly about having fun and enjoying some interesting new missions, and I am doing so all the time, I mean it's not like the activity drop affects my games at all, I was just wondering about what was overall happening with the playerbase, and was wondering if Yu Jing was alone in this effect (in which case we seriously would have needed to improve our inter faction work...) or if it was a global thing that everyone experienced and nothing anyone could do about it..

After all High Command tries to keep their commanders happy and entertained and coordinated, at least to some point ;-P

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Thanks, I guess?

:D

And, yeah, I think the secret objectives were a good attempt to beat the expected slowdown but they simply didn't have enough narrative sense or value to have the desired impact.

I don't think anyone is going to achieve any of the objectives 'though... so it hasn't given anyone an advantage.

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5 minutes ago, AdmiralJCJF said:

Thanks, I guess?

:D

And, yeah, I think the secret objectives were a good attempt to beat the expected slowdown but they simply didn't have enough narrative sense or value to have the desired impact.

I don't think anyone is going to achieve any of the objectives 'though... so it hasn't given anyone an advantage.

Yeah but the thing is...some objectives where more beneficial to their factions than others there....if say Haqqislam fails in their objective, it matters little, they still invested points in a meaningful new area that they might conquer in the end, benefiting them in the ongoing campaign.....now take Yu Jing for example, our bloody secret objective was gaining points in Indra Mobase (the Ariadna Area).....which is a 100% waste of effort if we fail to get that objective, our chances and our interest of actually taking over that area is basically non existent....so even if none of the factions actually gets their objective, it still weakened some factions, while it helped others by pulling potential defenders away and giving them a reason for otherwise strange attack choices...

I do agree that it was a nice attempt to counter the expected slowdown, but it seems like the backfire of this might end up frustrating people instead of creating a buzz, damaging the overall campaign experience instead of enhancing it like it was supposed to be...

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Fuyu nailed it.

It would be better if we had a set of scaling objectives: 1 point for getting 100 points down, 2 for 200 and 4 for the wildly unrealistic goal of 300.

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23 minutes ago, Lampyridae said:

Fuyu nailed it.

It would be better if we had a set of scaling objectives: 1 point for getting 100 points down, 2 for 200 and 4 for the wildly unrealistic goal of 300.

CB may well still do that :)

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1 minute ago, Beasts of War - Warren said:

CB may well still do that :)

True, which is part of the reason why I created this thread, cause if it is indeed a global phenomenon (as it seems to be) it might be in CB's best interest to tweak things a little to adapt to the situation and keep things interesting, these secret objectives where supposed to bring some movement into things and make things more exciting after all, not create frustration :-)

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