Yasashii Fuyu

Giant activity drop?

166 posts in this topic

I am not entirely sure I get the problem(s) completely. But I think the answer to the narrative problem mentioned here,

Just now, Yasashii Fuyu said:

I guess I really am an ENTITLED asshole, for to me, it seemed like this year things like "Corvus Belli will be heavily involved in this campaign and it's narrative" where said, and I kind of assumed (I know, how could I assume things? Are we talking about genders there?...)  this included them caring for the In Character Fluff their players created on their official In Character Strikezone Wotan Area of their Forum.......I mean let's be honest here, unlike the Out of Character Thread, the In Character thread isn't exactly exploding with activity every day...and writing a message asking for fluff updates to the Liasons once a week seems like a reasonable thing to do, at least to me...

Is here in this part.

1 hour ago, Beasts of War - Warren said:

So then finally Gutier gets the enviable task of weaving this all together into an official narrative, this will never ever match your induvidual or potentially group expectations as hes blending the outlook of 10 competing narratives, including 'the one ring' the official story 'the one that binds them all' - for the future of the game this has to make sence and this action on wotan (and previously flamia) are only blips in the fates and fortunes of an entire 'human sphere' of activity. (A perfect example is that its highly unlikly that on the official story Nomads will rename a ship after a penis and be driven by a strong desire to party lol - even though I wish it could lol)

 

So I guess they do care. But that doesn't mean they will make the official cut. I would say it's simply not plausible to string together a coherent story while completely maintaining every faction's narrative. Everyone seems to have their own version that conflicts with the others to an extent.

On a sidenote - humanity has been assuming things since the dawn of civilization, no the dawn of human instinct. Why couldn't you assume if it doesn't involve gender?

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4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

Cause there can only be one liason for all that we knew when we voted, and that vote went to masterofmelee for Yu Jing (with me being second) , we did however decide that he prefers the out of character stuff, and asked me to take care of the In Character stuff, with me having written Infinity Stories for a little while and generally being interested in doing so. Heck I even wrote a message to Bostria about that, offering him to support them in terms of Yu Jing Campaign fluff should they want to, didn't get a reply though, which is understandable as he's a busy guy obviously.

Also, telling us that we should have/could have pointed Corvus Belli to fluff highlights via our Liason (which frankly I didn't think was needed..) after 2/3rd of the campaign is a bit late...guess we could have/should have figured that one out ourselves eh?...frustrating.

Yes you have liasons to communicate back to the central PM tool... use them for what you feel is important story developments.

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

I guess I really am an ENTITLED asshole,

You may not be one, but yes you were acting a bit like one.

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

for to me, it seemed like this year things like "Corvus Belli will be heavily involved in this campaign and it's narrative" where said, and I kind of assumed (I know, how could I assume things? Are we talking about genders there?...)  this included them caring for the In Character Fluff their players created on their official In Character Strikezone Wotan Area of their Forum.......I mean let's be honest here, unlike the Out of Character Thread, the In Character thread isn't exactly exploding with activity every day...and writing a message asking for fluff updates to the Liasons once a week seems like a reasonable thing to do, at least to me...

If you have read anything from CB you will see they have created a rich a detailed world, so yes they do care, also no one knows how this story will unfoldcas were only half way through they playing bit and the writing bit hasnt even started.

The campaign takes place first and foremost at the wotan site, but the key is reporting back cool or important stuff via liasons. Or you can wait until its over and the guys have time to dig through and look for stuff.

Neither option gives you the right to just EXPECT what you consider important will be found or automatically considered important by other equally busy people. (That is egotistical)

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

Anyways...basically everything has been said by you just now anyways...

If I might summarize the way I understood it...maybe I understood something wrong and you could correct me:

Ill do my best

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

This Campaign is a "narrative" Campaign, but the narrative isn't written by the players, cause nobody got time for reading our stuff, as you are just a very small group of 3 people or so, busy with keeping things running, not with involving yourself with the fluff.

Childish and petulant statement. The narrative unfolds during the play, the narrative gets locked in during some months afterwards. Nothing is instataneous, again written as if only what you write matters, there are 1000's of piedes of writing, not everything will be caught.

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

The narrative part of this campaign will be done by Gutier at the end of the campaign, based on his image of the world, the way he wants things to go based on his "ring"...and maybe some slight pieces from the Liason's summary written at the end of the campaign when everything is said and done....

Its more of a balance than you put it above but based on 8 factions (that will contratict each other) some data to act as a bit of a guide to back up the events the factions are claiming (ie can it be verified), and the global vision of infinity ... there is no rocket science to this. The objective is simply the best possible story that brings efents to life in the background.

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

The main determing factor of everything in this campaign are the Statistics, so no matter what we do, in the end the faction with the biggest amount of players, the best win/los rate, the best written reports, (aka. PanO, not in terms of all of them, but of all of them combined) will be the "winners" whatever that means....most likely it means Combined Army will break through nontheless because there is a Svalarheim book in the making, and some CA threat there would make things more fun right?...

Forget about 'winners' its all about crafting some cool events that stories can be written about. The story is the winner. Never in any plotline is it ever likely to say 'and such and such was the winner'

Everything else is just about bragging rights inside the community, and already you see the smaller factions getting more bragging rights. Carlos's point if i understood was YuJing had the chance to be super agressive and press authority, but instead went on the defensive.

As players you also have some responsibility to actually play to the characters of your factions, not just turn them into what you personally want them to be :)

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

So all we as the players actually influence, is a set of funny looking statistics, the rest is out of our hands, and of course we ourselves can have some fun in this campaign and enjoy the setting, but that's about it.

Nope thats incorrect. (As you know)

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

Now please don't get me wrong here....if what I wrote just now is actually a accurate description of how this campaign works, that's FINE by me, it's a way to do it, and if that's all this campaign can be, we'll life with it, and try to enjoy it as much as we can....but then please, next time....tell us those things clearly in the beginning.

Campaigns are unfolding stories, the point is no one knows exactly how they will pan out, they are not on rails.

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

The way things where hinted at and said, I think a good chunk of the playerbase expected MORE from this campaign, and it's precisely BECAUSE Corvus Belli and it's community is small that we did expect more. Nobody expects Games Workshop to care about participants in their campaign, they don't even know we exist, but this here is a smaller setting, where people can directly talk and interact with each other, which allows for much more awesome things to happen.....or would have allowed I guess....

The self pity dripping of this statement is unbelievable, how many small companies go to this level to try and give players a global experience, even GW never have went to such lengths to put in place a platform to allow so many to get involved in so much detail. (The answer btw is none have ever went to the lengths CB has went to - yet all you can focus on is why here isnt more and why your personal contribution hasnt counted for more - at a stage where contributions dont yet really count)

4 minutes ago, Yasashii Fuyu said:

Anyways, don't worry, I have said my piece, I hope it might inspire cooler campaigns in the future, and if it doesn't, we'll just enjoy what we get to the extent possible....I'll take a step back now, try to recover from the burst of frustration that sucked out a good chunk of my (and many others from our High Command) motivation, and then return to motivate the Yu Jing Playerbase as much as I can and enjoy the rest of this campaign....

Stop feeling sorry for yourself and use the tools provided to craft cool stuff and if it needs to be noticed then again use the tools provided (liasons) to help get them noticed. 

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If every time there's a global campaign players flip out then CB will probably just not bother in future.

For a long time Infinity was a largely non toxic community but sadly this seems to be slipping as of late :-(

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I see you have really grown to like the Liason as an answer to everything fluff related frustration in this thread. A little too late by now frankly, but at least we'll try keeping that in mind for the next campaign I guess. Like I said, Information like "We don't read In Character Diplomacy stuff on the official Infinity Campaign Forum for this Campaign during the campaign unless your Liason tells us to" would have been nice at the beginning, but what's done is done.

I don't doubt Corvus Belli cares about their world or that they created a lovely world as is, what I said was that our player created fluff during this campaign has no real influence on that, other than maybe months later when Gutier maybe decided that some pieces of it could be funny...during the campaign itself, we might as well not have bothered, unless of course we would have known to use our Liasons to point CBs nose at it...if only we had...

Thanks for calling my words childish and whatnot, gives our discussion that  constructive undertone that I had hoped it'd get, sorry for not calling out your rethorical devices and calling you names for using them to get the meaning of your words across as well, I'm sure that would have improved this thread even more...

 

Anyways, like I said, I have said my piece, apparently all I said is not true and just my personal entitled expectation that I dared to reflect on a "narrative" campaign, sorry for bothering people with my words, I'll look forward to the fluff Gutier creates from the graphs and the Liason's report at the end.

 

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I think I was clear about what minimum standards of behaviour I am expecting in these sub forum, please (everybody involved) consider it while continuing this discussion.

 

Thanks.

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6 hours ago, Beasts of War - Warren said:

You believe your opinion has so much value that it must be expressed at all cost and if its discounted its not because someone dissagrees its because they are wrong (or lying or incompetent @Hecaton your comments on Carlos are utterly shameful, this community could do without discusting characters like you, if it were up to me (which it isnt) id ask you to pack your shit and 'just go' - if you saw the work, care and love that induvidual puts into your community you would hang your head in shame at taking such a cheap shot at him - discusting!) This is feeling SELF ENTITLED to bellitle those who work EVERY DAY to promote and create the thing we are all invested in.

I mean... game devs and industry people get entitled too. And in this case... it's patently obvious that the story is already written in its meaningful entirety before the campaign, so insulting my intelligence vis a vis narrative elements of what players do affecting the campaign *is* as I described. 

I can certainly say that you haven't left a positive impression of BoW on me. I don't want to go into more specifics as I don't want to be more overtly insulting and we can both fill in the gaps.

4 hours ago, Phototoxin said:

If every time there's a global campaign players flip out then CB will probably just not bother in future.

Well when I look at the value they've added for all this work they've been doing... probably not worth it? Might be a fool's errand, in a certain way. 

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4 hours ago, Phototoxin said:

If every time there's a global campaign players flip out then CB will probably just not bother in future.

For a long time Infinity was a largely non toxic community but sadly this seems to be slipping as of late :-(

It's just this thread and another one that were toxic wastelands right from the beginning. And in both cases it was due to just two or three (maybe four) people totally losing their sh*t about a game, which is sad (and has become quite irrational over the last days). But Infinity's community as a whole is still great. :)

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Just to contribute to the original question:

I've started writing battle reports and really got into it. It was real fun!

After a while, my creativity dropped and I needed a break writing them. That's why recently I haven't uploaded any new reports.

I don't expect people to like them or give me good ratings, but if I can make someone enjoy reading it and have a good time, that's good enough to me. Everything else, I don't really care.

Cheers!

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@Beasts of War - Warren@Yasashii Fuyu's complaint is right on point about managing expectations.

"You needed to have your Faction Liaison send weekly reports of successes, goals, and cool batreps to CB" - paraphrasing here.

 

So when the hell are you/CB (whichever one of you decided that CB was basically only going to read the weekly reports from the Liaison) going to tell the players this information?!?  Of course people are pissed about not knowing some critical-to-their-faction's-success-in-the-campaign information.  Their expectation is that they would have been told this at the start of the campaign.  After the first week, if I were CB I would have asked any liaison not providing a report if they were planning on delivering one, not just assume that the report wasn't going to happen.  That way, we wouldn't be halfway through the second phase before finding out that the liaison was supposed to be giving reports!

 

As the guys running the Warconsole, this is one of the things that you need to be telling the publishers to tell the users.  Otherwise, @Beasts of War - Warren gets to be the lightning rod, and I'm pretty sure you're tired of drawing all the incoming fire.  (Personally, I prefer to put fire on targets that deserve it.)

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2 hours ago, Beasts of War - Warren said:

Go and re-read my responses, the answer was already in there. :) You might have missed it.

Maybe so.

I restate my observation about you being the lightning rod (and my guess that you're tired of it :P).

 

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With thirteen thousand posts under your belt, you should know your way round here like the back of your hand mate I'm sure :) (if I'm a lightning rod for someone like you, I would assume that was entirely intended lol)

I'd love to read some of your Wotan reports too by the way, do you have a profile on the platform? (It's always useful for us to learn how players of such experience use the functionality of the platform - they are often quite out of the box thinkers and use it in surprising ways)

 

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I think we'll see more attainable goals for the second set of secret objectives soon, but even so I'm expecting a lot of us to have to choose between an offensive that could earn us double the points, or holding on to the theatres we have now,which realistically puts all of us with 2 theatres at a disadvantage, unless nobody gets sent against PanOceania again... 

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6 minutes ago, cazboab said:

I think we'll see more attainable goals for the second set of secret objectives soon, but even so I'm expecting a lot of us to have to choose between an offensive that could earn us double the points, or holding on to the theatres we have now,which realistically puts all of us with 2 theatres at a disadvantage, unless nobody gets sent against PanOceania again... 

To be fair, anyone other than Combined Army being sent against either of the Sygtir stations will be ignored as an irrelevance.

Nobody is getting enough points to threaten either of those to the point we have to respond other than CA.

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4 minutes ago, AdmiralJCJF said:

To be fair, anyone other than Combined Army being sent against either of the Sygtir stations will be ignored as an irrelevance.

Nobody is getting enough points to threaten either of those to the point we have to respond other than CA.

And even if we do it's a minimum gap of 120 points which we would need to be unanswered, we simply don't have the man power.

I'm proud of the achievement that we kept you guys tied down to your home sectors in phase 1 but for it to have been a success we really needed somebody else to hit Sytgir 2 as hard as we hit 1 to draw you into a war on two fronts.

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Just now, Graviton said:

And even if we do it's a minimum gap of 120 points which we would need to be unanswered, we simply don't have the man power.

I'm proud of the achievement that we kept you guys tied down to your home sectors in phase 1 but for it to have been a success we really needed somebody else to hit Sytgir 2 as hard as we hit 1 to draw you into a war on two fronts.

True, it's fortunate for us that we were never put in that situation.

'though I think you probably could put 100 points onto one of the Sygtirs in a week, we would simply respond in kind. It'd have to be an objective to be worth it.

And it's VERY likely that if another Human Sphere faction had attacked Sygtir-2 then we'd have abandoned it to them in order to stop Combined at Sygtir-1. We were just lucky it never came to that. I mean, there was some diplomacy involved, but I don't think anyone seriously considered it after you guys attacked us.

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7 minutes ago, AdmiralJCJF said:

To be fair, anyone other than Combined Army being sent against either of the Sygtir stations will be ignored as an irrelevance.

Nobody is getting enough points to threaten either of those to the point we have to respond other than CA.

That's probably true, which would make it even more frustrating for the rest of us if Pan-O gets a clear run at whatever their second objective is. 

As @Graviton alluded to, the combined army's offensive on Sygtir is very unlikely to succeed in straight numbers, and as the Admiral said, nobody is going to work with CA to get things done, unless some serious incentive is provided since they are after all the closest thing to a true "bad guy" 

(but if @bostria can get us an actual tag, a promise from the EI to leave Dawn alone and the blackjacks in August / September release window I'm sure we'll consider it...) 

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So, let's see if I got this straight.

Yu Jing, by all accounts a mediocre sized faction in terms of users and participation, was given more locations to defend than the other factions, each of which had on average more buffer against hostile activity than Yu Jing got, is hit by a coordinated effort by what is combined a larger force, and is also the only faction officially singled out by the event organizers as performing poorly. Not only this, but Yu Jing was also given unobtainable objectives because, if I'm not mistaken, having other factions set on collision course with Yu Jing. Meanwhile, the official spokesperson and the liaison of the faction is ignored and sidelined, one being berated for pointing out the flaws and the other being used as a scapegoat. I mean, apparently Yu Jing is the only faction to perform badly, by comparison the largest faction, Pan-O, is actually temporarily lost a base that no one is told to attack and is performing admirably.

Do you guys really expect this to motivate Yu Jing players to perform better or even participate going forward?

Edited by Mahtamori
fixed a grammatically imprecise reference
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9 minutes ago, Mahtamori said:

So, let's see if I got this straight.

Yu Jing, by all accounts a mediocre sized faction in terms of users and participation, was given more locations to defend than the other factions, each of which had on average less buffer against hostile activity, is hit by a coordinated effort by what is combined a larger force, and is also the only faction officially singled out by the event organizers as performing poorly. Not only this, but Yu Jing was also given unobtainable objectives because, if I'm not mistaken, having other factions set on collision course with Yu Jing. Meanwhile, the official spokesperson and the liaison of the faction is ignored and sidelined, one being berated for pointing out the flaws and the other being used as a scapegoat. I mean, apparently Yu Jing is the only faction to perform badly, by comparison the largest faction, Pan-O, is actually temporarily lost a base that no one is told to attack and is performing admirably.

Do you guys really expect this to motivate Yu Jing players to perform better or even participate going forward?

I don't think a single sentence of that was true.

They are 2nd largest faction by numbers I believe maybe 3rd but it's very close and alot higher than the smaller factions.

They only had one theater to protect in phase one.

There are only liaisons and they are all already in the private project tool with CB

They designated their own command structure and created this 'official fluff writer' post internally, we didn't know about it.

Carlos poked fun at his 'own' faction because well... It's only a game and ultimately for bragging rights - that and he's a fun and funny guy

Said 'official fluff writer' took a massive strop as 1 he didn't take the joking in good nature it was intended, 2 he didn't get the personal recognition and praise he felt he deserved

It was pointed out to him there is sooooo much being written and now in a number of places that if he thinks it would be cool enough for CB to take note of he should pass it back by the mission so it's less likely to be missed.

'official fluff writer' didn't take the advice but continued with massive strop

Others arrive and try to twist the entire sequence of events into something that suits them and their trolling

Others when told their talking bollocks... Join in with massive strop

 

I think that about covers it, and the last two lines are a stab at a prediction, we'll see how finely tuned my powers of clairvoyance are ;)

Mission should read liason sorry for typos and edit function doesn't work on tablet :)

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My own prediction to ad to @Beasts of War - Warren's: someone will bring up how the registration numbers don't match up with how many people are actually playing games, then someone will bring up the numbers of people who have participated, defined by whatever parameters help their side of the discussion. Personally I think it's pretty even across most factions, with the tohaa being the obvious exception, and YuJing and pano being maybe very slightly ahead in terms of contributing players. 

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29 minutes ago, Mahtamori said:

So, let's see if I got this straight.

Yu Jing, by all accounts a mediocre sized faction in terms of users and participation, was given more locations to defend than the other factions, each of which had on average more buffer against hostile activity than Yu Jing got, is hit by a coordinated effort by what is combined a larger force, and is also the only faction officially singled out by the event organizers as performing poorly. Not only this, but Yu Jing was also given unobtainable objectives because, if I'm not mistaken, having other factions set on collision course with Yu Jing. Meanwhile, the official spokesperson and the liaison of the faction is ignored and sidelined, one being berated for pointing out the flaws and the other being used as a scapegoat. I mean, apparently Yu Jing is the only faction to perform badly, by comparison the largest faction, Pan-O, is actually temporarily lost a base that no one is told to attack and is performing admirably.

Do you guys really expect this to motivate Yu Jing players to perform better or even participate going forward?

The way I see it Yu Jing got officially singled out because they mostly didn't go with the plot of the fluff in phase 1. In phase 1 they were meant to be the aggressors. They were given only 1 location to defend expecting that would have them flooding La Forja alongside Aleph and Ariadna. The plan was to have the Nomads lose at least one of the stations in the face of the triple threat, blow up La Forja, and have Don arrive in phase 2.

The problem was Yu Jing didn't attack as aggressively as expected while Aleph and Ariadna did. The smaller two couldn't completely unseat the Nomads from either station by end of phase 1 but predetermined plot dictates the station needs to blow up and Don needs to arrive! This was probably a "hard" plot point that couldn't be ignored by CB regardless of the outcome. So now we have the station blown up despite a "successful" Nomad defense. Now the Bromads are mad while everyone else is scratching their heads on how the station blew up despite the successful defense. La Forja's destruction and Don's arrival probably have far reaching consequences in campaign and lore and couldn't be avoided by the organisers. 

There are many theories supporting how La Forja could've exploded despite the Nomad success and I am certain eventually we will get an official explanation. But that doesn't change the fact that Nomads (a LARGE chunk of the playerbase) feel unrewarded for their effort and there is now at least a temporary narrative hole. And who are to blame for this? Yu Jing and their rather out of character approach to the phase of course (according to the organizers).

That's why they get singled out for criticism in a rather harsh tone. Honestly speaking I don't blame the organizers. CB pit brother against brother+arch nemesis (okay more like cousin against cousin+arch nemesis) in the Nomad vs. Ariadna+Aleph scenario to organise an interesting story. But due to the Yu Jing OOC approach now it's got a bunch of plot holes in it. Others more or less played according to the fluff. Like how CA even attacked Pan O despite knowing they had no real chance against the largest playerbase.

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I'm sorry, but that's bollocks, not only because it's missing half of the points raised (the more important points at that), but also because missing that Yasashii is the incharacter voice of YJ can only be done by taking a complete dis-interest in what the faction has to say (which also doesn't communicate a good message to players who put in a real effort to make this campaign fantastic through in-character). More importantly, the phase 2 update text has literally singled out only one faction as under-performing and nearly literally called all the players of that faction a disappointment - heavily underlined by providing deviating examples "it's lucky you have these two people"-style.

All things considered I'll have to ask: do you guys really want to reduce Yu Jing activity so much that you step in as your official role as organizers to do your best to demoralize the faction?

p.s. I would not be able to provide a dispute to the player base numbers, @cazboab

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2 minutes ago, blitzassassin said:

 But due to the Yu Jing OOC approach now it's got a bunch of plot holes in it.

So let me get that bit straight as well. In writing a story that literally hinges on faction 3 (by size) hitting faction 2 with everything, not taking into account that faction 3 might be forced to play defensively - the correct course of action is to single them out, throw them under a proverbial bus and more or less ask them to stop playing?

Wouldn't a better course of action be to provide a slightly more nuanced view and then be more agile with storyline incentives to allow Yu Jing to act as aggressive as you'd like? Redirect other factions away and not provide more defense vectors.

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