Daboarder

What the hell is happening to the Kamau.....?

398 posts in this topic

14 minutes ago, Guardian said:

No way mimetism-camo is 1 point difference.

Marker state is one of the strongest abilities in the game.

Strange, isn't it?

Regarding spec fire... We have existing spec fire platforms that are BS12 and cheaper. I think the upgrade to BS13 with that slight x-visor range is great, but hardly game breaking. Wu Ming already have a strong Spec Fire platform, and their greater cost over Kamau is offset by 5 point Kuang Shi giving them all the orders they could ever want. I hardly see that mechanic as game breaking.

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But goys, you also get CC+1, be grateful

Lol why you complain smh

Imma go play with my Ghazis and Kaplans and Barids bye now

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54 minutes ago, Barakiel said:

Strange, isn't it?

Regarding spec fire... We have existing spec fire platforms that are BS12 and cheaper. I think the upgrade to BS13 with that slight x-visor range is great, but hardly game breaking. Wu Ming already have a strong Spec Fire platform, and their greater cost over Kamau is offset by 5 point Kuang Shi giving them all the orders they could ever want. I hardly see that mechanic as game breaking.

Well we are in PanO forums so obviously we cannot have anything along those lines.

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1 hour ago, Dasaan said:

But goys, you also get CC+1, be grateful

Lol why you complain smh

Imma go play with my Ghazis and Kaplans and Barids bye now

If you want really sickening, compare Auxilia to Fusiliers and try and work out why they cost the same (10 points, ignoring the Auxbot).

Being a G:Sync controller costs nothing (take a look at Devas), so Auxilia pay for BS12 but are only BS11.

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On 2017. 07. 11. at 8:40 PM, Eciu said:

Whats the difference between 4-4 MI and 4-4 LI ?

Not exactly per rules, but HMG usually costs 1 SWC on an LI and 1.5 on an MI. On the profile in the video with Bostria the HMG Kamau costed 1 SWC and were a MOV 4-2 LI.

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On 2017. 07. 19. at 7:18 PM, Eciu said:

+ Mimetism => +1 pts

Why? For 1pts I'd strap Mimetism on everyone and their mom. #everythingisbetterwithmimetism #panocanthavenicethings

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15 minutes ago, Zsolt said:

Not exactly per rules, but HMG usually costs 1 SWC on an LI and 1.5 on an MI. On the profile in the video with Bostria the HMG Kamau costed 1 SWC and were a MOV 4-2 LI.

The 4-2 MOV appears to be a blanket 2 point reduction. The SWC change looks linear with LI -> MI -> HI, with the odd exception (usually associated with irregular status)

Just now, Zsolt said:

Why? For 1pts I'd strap Mimetism on everyone and their mom. #everythingisbetterwithmimetism #panocanthavenicethings

You can basically accept Mimetism as 3 points for LI and most MI that I can work out.

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Basically Mimetism cost varies, most likely depending on troop type and BS.

+1CC is dead weight, but more PH can be useful. If only they had any kind of grenades...

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48 minutes ago, Stiopa said:

Basically Mimetism cost varies, most likely depending on troop type and BS.

+1CC is dead weight, but more PH can be useful. If only they had any kind of grenades...

Oh yes just like Orcs do!....

 

... oh wait.....

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14 hours ago, Stiopa said:

Basically Mimetism cost varies, most likely depending on troop type and BS.

+1CC is dead weight, but more PH can be useful. If only they had any kind of grenades...

There are lots of non-CC troops with CC scores of 17-20

CB usually puts some "extra" lesser useful stats on models, just to increase the price. (Just look at YJ stats)

nothing new under the sun, i'd say.

Kamau seem to me a fairly efficient troop, priced accordingly.

We can argue that you liked a different role for the troop, but at least you got a viable Linkteam

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@Darkvortex87, that's what I had in mind writing about CC. It's there mainly to jack the price up a bit, not to be really useful. 

The whole unit is certainly viable, Lt. included.

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Actually I like the idea of 1SWC HMG, I was thinking about using HMG Fusiliers, but BS13 with Mimetism makes it much more useful.

The X-visor LGL should come back, that's a place where an X-visor is actually useful (normally I'm not a fan of shooting on +0 range instead of +3, but it looks better on speculative fire).

1 hour ago, Darkvortex87 said:

CB usually puts some "extra" lesser useful stats on models, just to increase the price. (Just look at YJ stats)

I heard it's because they have an idea for a unit, how much should it cost (so you'll get MSV2 mimetism for 30 pts or whatever), and they use the filler stats to reach it. Which is kinda okay, since the world is less min-maxed this way, and it's easier to design "30 pts for MSV2 and mimetism" than to design the perfect point cost for every stat and skill and weapon combination in the game. I can live with that.

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I don't mind the +1 PH terribly. Sometimes it's nice to know the odds are in your favor for dodging that chain rifle, rather than merely being a 50:50 coin flip.

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On 7/22/2017 at 6:50 AM, Ayadan said:

Guys, did you thought one second that if they are like that, it's because of a need of a nerf once Varuna would pop?

One thing to be cleared first of all:

In all of our sectorials, with no exception, regular LI units that are non-Aleph, non mandatory specialists (Trauma-doc and Machinists) or camouflaged unit (Hexa) have Fireteam: Core

Auxilia.

 

So no, there are exceptions. Because reasons. And while I'm aware that the Auxbot precludes it, they didn't preclude Order Sergeants from being Linkable and only having Auxbots on one profile.

:)

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There should be room for manual tweaking of formulas, else you get stuff like whatever madness created the Ghazi, or Securitate profiles. MSV2 should be useless on my BS5, WIP6 guy. But then that needs to go up against the in-game utility. For example, Auxilia lost a LOT by losing out on coordinated orders but got little to compensate, which is why they're definitely on the downturn this edition post HSN3. 

Likewise, they IMO nerfed the Uhlan by giving the Fuerbach the HMG range profile instead of the old Spitfire range profile, thus creating major redundancy with the already expensive HMG. In reply, they... increased the points cost by 3, for what amounts to a weaker multi-hmg that costs more to field(??!)

Formulas are useful for baselining, but then they need to be tweaked to keep the game sane with things that produce extra synergy or anti-synergy. 

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Any word on the time of the Army update?

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23 minutes ago, Lancer said:

Any word on the time of the Army update?

Give them a week to recover from Interplanetario? Or maybe after the preorder ends. 

Can anyone remember how long was it between Red Veil week and Al Fasids being in Army? 

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13 minutes ago, Col said:

Give them a week to recover from Interplanetario? Or maybe after the preorder ends. 

Can anyone remember how long was it between Red Veil week and Al Fasids being in Army? 

I don't recall, but I believe it was around the time the mini was actually in folks' hands.

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Army updates (and PDF releases) are generally timed around the European street date.

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On 7/22/2017 at 3:27 AM, Cartographer said:

The one thing that the points cost discussion got me to do was math-out the LI load outs and I'm now pretty confident on my accuracy.

But I run into the problem that, as far as I can tell, combis cost 7 points, light shotguns cost 3, and the combi+light shotgun costs 11...
(D-charges look to be free with engineer and are basically free on every other loadout that has them, and light flamethrowers cost 1 point)
Assuming mimetism costs 3 points (camo costs 4), then the Kamau are pretty much spot-on the formula I've got.
That isn't to say the CC isn't just bloat adding to the cost of the profile with no real benefit, and PHY is marginal at best on a PanO unit with no grenades that should instead be shooting at every opportunity.
I still think the base profile (and specialists) should have been sporting SMGs though; it would have created a gap in the fireteam's range bands to exploit and would have dropped their points by 5 (SMGs being 4 points cheaper than boarding shotguns, which are in turn 1 point cheaper than combis).

You must not dodge very often in ARO.

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6 hours ago, Section 9 said:

You must not dodge very often in ARO.

Well even fusies are better to shoot back unless template is incoming.

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1 hour ago, Eciu said:

Well even fusies are better to shoot back unless template is incoming.

So I assume you've never been shot by something with Mimetism, TO, ODD or just with -3 Rangebands with Cover?

PH is also useful for Change Facing AROs in ZOC.

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36 minutes ago, Teslarod said:

So I assume you've never been shot by something with Mimetism, TO, ODD or just with -3 Rangebands with Cover?

PH is also useful for Change Facing AROs in ZOC.

Linked Fusi combi in bad range (-3) vs a Hac Tao HMG is just as good shooting (8% succeed) as dodging (8.03% succeed) though granted the chances of neither player doing anything are slightly higher (~17% vs ~14%) with a dodge.
Unlinked you're looking at a -12, so dodge is the only option anyway.

The point you seem to wilfully be missing is, if you've paid for BS (which PanO universally have to) you're more often than not better off trying to use it; PHY on units with no offensive means of using it (grenades, CC abilities etc.) is marginally useful at best (gotta love those medikits, only slightly less lethal than Doc Shipman) and bloat at worst.

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