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Lazarus0909

Antipodes and Synchronize Civilian/CivEvac

Question

Apologies if this has been asked before and I just missed it. But our group has a question concerning Rescue and the use of Antipodes to grab civilians. 

Simply put -
1.) Can the Antipodes pack (assume 3x surviving dogs here) synchronize with a civilian? 
2.) If so, how many can they synchronize with - one for the pack, or (I would assume) one for each dog (as they are separate troops)? 

Please note for reference in this thread - Antipodes do not have the G:Sync rules, linkteam rules, or coordinate orders that normally prevent you declaring the Synchronize Civilian Common Skill. They are Frenzy (but we'll assume here that they haven't triggered a kill that would make them impetuous the following turn, as that WOULD prevent them from syncing). Nothing in the Antipode rule seems to reference preventing this as far as I'm aware either. 

So as far as I can see, nothing can prevent them from grabbing civilians once they're out of camo? 

Let us know! 

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Can you explain how you're going to follow the Antipodes activation rules and the G:Sync activation rules (used for CivEvac) at the same time?

As far as I'm aware, there isn't an established notion of cascading activations.

In other words, the problem is that you can't activate the single Antipode controller that's sync'd with a civilian without violating the Antipodes rule that says you activate the group.   

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It's a very ambiguous rules area.  There are a number of possibly undefined interactions.

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@solkan By "controller", you mean the one Antipode sync'd to a civilian and "controlling" him via the G:Sync rule, rather than the pack controller right? I'm assuming the former?

If so, I would have thought that you activate the pack and move them + any synced civilians at once, in the same way as you would any other Model + sync civilians. Its just in the pack's case, you're moving 3 models for the "controller" part, rather than just one. One order token, one activation. 

E.g. 

- Auxilia + Auxbot activates. Declares MOV. Move both models. Wait for ARO. Declares MOV. Move both models. Vs.
- Antipodes Pack + Gsync civilian(s) activate. Declares MOV. Move all 3 Antipodes + 0-3 Sync'd Civilians. Wait for ARO. Declares MOV. Etc. 

Nothing in G:Sync itself prohibits moving more than 2 models, or Devabots, Symbiobeasts etc wouldn't work. There is no precedent for moving "multiple controllers" with a single order, I agree, although I will point out that coordinated orders used to let you do this (move multiple controllers + Gsync'd buddies) before a specific FAQ ruling ruled otherwise, so I guess there's nothing in the core rules preventing the mechanic itself (namely, multiple controllers, multiple gsync buddies moving all at once under one order). And under G:Sync, it does specify that:

So if the Antipodes can sync with them (nothing mentioned in Sync Civilian/Civ Evac to prevent this) and they all move together as one trooper when sync'd, thats how you would follow the activation rules once sync'd?

I agree it's a crazy interaction, which is why I was thinking I had missed something.  

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It is mentioned.

http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Civilian_Rules#Synchronize_Civilian

Synchronize Civilian

This Common Skill allows a model to control a Civilian in game.

SYNCHRONIZE CIVILIAN SHORT MOVEMENT SKILL
Optional
REQUIREMENTS
  • Only models and not markers can perform this Common Skill. Any Marker which declares Synchronize Civilian is automatically revealed.
  • Troopers must be in base to base contact with the targeted Civilian to declare Synchronize Civilian.
  • The targeted Civilian cannot be in a CivEvac state with an enemy model.
  • A model cannot declare this Common Skill if any of the following is true:
EFFECTS
  • If the model successfully passes a WIP Roll, the Civilian enters the CivEvac state (see CivEvac state).
  • Failing the WIP Roll causes the Civilian to move two inches in a random direction. To determine the direction of the movement, the player must place a Circular Template over the Civilian model, with the number one pointing to the center of the table, and roll a d20. The result will point the direction in which the Civilian will move. This Movement must follow the General Movement rulesexplained in the Move Common Skill rules (see Infinity N3).
  • If the Civilian is considered Hostile, due to any game condition or Scenario Special Rule, then the player must apply a -3 MOD to the WIP Roll.
  • A Hostile Civilian is identified by a Hostile Marker.

Marked in red for evidence.

So, it seems that Pupniks, Auxbot and Servant can't sync with Civvies, while their controllers fulfill the requirements.

 

Edit: For antipodes, you mark one of the models as Spearhead, so it is a sort of "special coordinated order". While not clearly stated, i (as TO) wouldn't allow it.

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Antipodes categorically do NOT have the G:Sync skill (Auxbots etc. do). There are also critical differences between Antipodes and other G:Sync models, namely that they have their own order, they have no distance restrictions from the controller, they aren't automatically disabled when the controller dies (they have their own rule) etc etc. 

It's also definitely NOT a coordinated order either, because it has a bunch of other restrictions and changes. For example,  they all have to stay within 8" of each other, and crucially, they can actually BE moved as part of a "real" coordinated order. 

I mean it's fine that you would rule it that way in a tournament (and good to know), but you can see why I'm asking for an actual forum ruling/FAQ entry here. 

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There's nothing stopping you from doing it. You've done the research. It's definitely weird, though, and I would explain things to any TO beforehand so you're not surprised by his ruling during the event. I would say that anyone not allowing you to do it is wrong (given the current state of information), but there's not much you can do about a TO who's wrong until the event is over.

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12 minutes ago, BLOODGOD said:

There's nothing stopping you from doing it. You've done the research. It's definitely weird, though, and I would explain things to any TO beforehand so you're not surprised by his ruling during the event. I would say that anyone not allowing you to do it is wrong (given the current state of information), but there's not much you can do about a TO who's wrong until the event is over.

Good to know Laz and I aren't the only ones who think this is possible :) 

Sounds like we need to get in touch with the TO for GenCon and see how they'll rule it, as there's no consistent ruling yet.

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Strictly by the rules, it is allowed.

But all other "multiple-model-moving-blob" are ruled not being able to do so.

In my experience, when you have this kind of situation, you should apply always the most restrictive way to play as long as the game owner doesn't resolve the issue (just to be sure to not give/get an illicit advantage).

 

But any agreed solution is fine, as long as both players are satisfied!

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I don't think that Antipodes eating a civilian counts as evac.

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3 minutes ago, Dragonstriker said:

I don't think that Antipodes eating a civilian counts as evac.

They will then evacuate the civilian...

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On 7/13/2017 at 9:03 AM, Tox said:

Strictly by the rules, it is allowed.

But all other "multiple-model-moving-blob" are ruled not being able to do so.

In my experience, when you have this kind of situation, you should apply always the most restrictive way to play as long as the game owner doesn't resolve the issue (just to be sure to not give/get an illicit advantage).

 

But any agreed solution is fine, as long as both players are satisfied!

I also play like that. Most restrictive option works the best, as you simply avoid unintentional cheating that way.

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