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Monster

So Tankhunters ;)

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Hi its me again, this time we are here to talk about tankhunters, i like the tankhunters in theory, but they never work for me- i have tried the ap hmg, autocannon and yesterday the missile launcher and nothing really works, i dont know if i am using him properly.

Here are my thought on how to use him feel free to correct me: 

i always figured them as the more bulky version of the spetznaz more of a defensive piece or aro piece if you can call it that, with the ability to deal with very heavy stuff, i tried using him with ap hmg marching him up the field and putting him in suppression fire. but this was not really that effective, my opponent just found a way to stack mods and take him out without much hassle, and considering his points and SWC cost it was a win win for him. when i tried him with the missile launcher or autocannon my plan is usually to suprise shot my enemy and just make a very unfair ftf against him but i was never really satisfying. 

anyway my main point is i usually find myself wanting to take another spetsnaz HMG he even has ambush camo and that extra token is nice, "but monster you say, why not just take another spetsnaz Hmg" well the tankhunter is my favorite model and unit in ariadna so i need him to work im sure you can empathize with that.

anyway so i figured i need some help.

My questions are : how do you use them? what do you find is the best loadout for you and why? why not just another spetsnaz?

 what are forums for if not asking questions and considering i got so much help with my antipodes i wanna have another go at it :). 

 regards

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There's little that can do as much damage as the Autocannon Tank Hunter, stacking camo, surprise shot, and decent range bands can pop most HI or severely damage TAGs, using him defensively halves his damage potential and loses surprise shot so you want to use him in the active turn. 

The APHMG is also a great active turn hunter, but suffers from being in the same list as the Spetsnaz, AP ammo doesn't always compensate for the lack of Marksmanship 2 except against the toughest targets, and ARM 3 isn't that tough for a moderately pricy MI to sit in suppression. This guy was a staple of my lists until the Spetsnaz came out. I still sometimes take him as a backup HMG in case I'm against a high ARM TAG. I also have to compare him against the Molotok Scots Guard who is cheaper and has that lovely 8-24" +3 range, the Molotok doesn't hit as hard though. 

The missile launcher is the one best suited to ARO duty, and is fairly good at popping unbuffed totes remotes due to the longer range, though I consider the Scots Guard ML better due to his assault pistol. 

The personal best pick for me is the AP Rifle/ADHL version, he's a pretty good safe Lt. Option, usually worth the 1 SWC cost, he competes with Bruant for this role but is a little tougher and has proper camo. I also like that his weapons can get in that awkward 8-16 range that TAGs and HI using HMGs don't like being attacked at, and he's reasonably priced for his capabilities. 

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Here's my entry on them from my Kazak tactica :) Hopefully it helps some!

  • Standard (25, 0): Comes with an adhesive launcher, an AP rifle and d-charges; a classic kit for wreaking havoc. Glue down what you can’t kill with the rifle, run up and then plant d-charges. Sure, it's only 4-2 and can easily be overshadowed by the heavier options, but it's still a great tool kit for getting missions accomplished and defending an area. This is a terrific loadout for its price and something any enemy of the Kazaks should fear.

  • AP HMG (35, 1.5): Probably one of the best choice for an AP HMG and even an affordable version, especially when compared to the Veteran Kazak and the. Plus, the Tankhunter has Surprise Shot Lv. 1, which the Veteran Kazak does not have the pleasure of using. It’s an excellent and powerful choice for any list if you need more HMG, d-charges, and AP ammo or don't want to pay for a Veteran. Really this option shines in Nimbus zone when the Autocannon isn't going to be much help or whenever else you know you're going to be doing some armor hunting, but you need some burst rather than power. One thing to note, though, is that for 3 points more you can get a Spetsnaz HMG which is far superior to the Tankhunter AP HMG, until you’re shooting against ARM 5 +. If you know you’re going up against quite a bit of heavy armor and aren’t already packing anti-armor somewhere else, then this is the option for you!

  • Portable Autocannon (34, 1.5): A unique weapon in Infinity that’s a beautiful mistress of destruction. If you know you need some heavy armor demolished, then take this option and I promise you won’t regret it. Burst two, AP + EXP ammo types for a potential 6 wounds on whatever with half of its armor and heavy penalties to react back, thanks to camouflage. Someone thinks they're going to sneak up your flank and there's a lonely camo marker, they probably think, "Oh, it's just some cheap whatever, it can't do anything to my armored behemoth". You reveal this beautiful gun and watch as terror consumes your opponent's face. Definitely stopped a few flank attacks myself with this piece and destroyed a few T.A.G.s, too. However, it is worth noting that the AP HMG is the superior Active Turn piece and the Missile Launcher is the superior ARO piece, but the autocannon is the nice middleman between them.

  • Missile Launcher (29, 1.5): A cheap and effective missile launcher option. This is probably one of the best places to put the missile launcher with the Tankhunters incredible ability to stay alive and stay cool under fire; however, this loadout is the only one that doesn’t have d-charges sadly. This is one of TAK’s BEST ARO pieces and even one of Vanilla Ariadna’s best ARO pieces too. It’s even good on the offensive, if you don’t mind risking a single shot, but it’s got a bit longer rangeband than a HMG and the like, so you can easily outrange targets. It’s still got the AP + EXP, DAM 15 shot of the autocannon in ARO, or you can swap out for the EXP template, DAM 14 shot to really mess with any clusters of opponents that come around. I used to see the autocannon as one of the best ARO pieces, since it was burst 2, when needed, but nope. ML is definitely better. You just can’t beat a weapon that can easily outrange the typical HMG rangeband and that can alternate firing modes on the fly, given your target. It’s also a great option for taking out TR bots and any friends it has hiding behind it.

  • Lieutenant (25, 1): The same as the standard loadout, but it’s a Lt. and costs one SWC. This is actually one of the best Kazak Lt. options. They can make short work out of any rascals who are trying to stomp around in your Deployment Zone, or blow up any d-charges your troops have deployed, all with your Lt. Order. Laugh at my 4-2 lieutenant, I'll laugh at your TAG when it's glued down, after you failed an assassination run! The 1 SWC is a bit of a steep price to pay, but it can definitely be worth it, at times.

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IMO the AP HMG (closest comparable model to the Spetz) is only really coming into its own if you know you need a tool for fighting TAGs in cover. Basically anything up to ARM 5 or below in cover the Spetz is still going to outperform it, so you only bring the AP HMG if you're in the sort of format that you know that AP ammo is going to be making a bigger difference. 

The missile launcher plays a very different role. Really usage is much more comparable to a camo "sniper" here, with a perhaps more of a focus on as an ARO (only B1 active) besides the surprise shot bonus. You'll use it for similar things as a sniper, stacking mods of your own (ideally -3 range, -3 cover, -3 camo, -3 surprise to -12 most folks, especially important vs. TR bots) and only guarding key lanes so you don't just get picked off by a roaming HMG. 

The autocannon is perhaps an "in between" piece, with a few strengths in both areas. Again, stacking mods is REALLY important with this guy to overcome low burst (you really want to force opponents to dodge where possible) and being very selective with any lanes you choose to watch. 

In all 3 cases, distance is your friend. You aren't fast enough to be running around the table, and your optimal range is always 16" or even further, so there's no need to push up the table. I'm also the kind of person who advises against turn 1 ARO overwatch - preferring in these cases to often have these models prone on a roof somewhere. Then when they do activate, they can stand up, surprise shot somebody on the active turn, and overwatch from turn 2 onwards to provide great AROs. If you use your T1/T2 wisely, you can ideally eliminate pieces like dangerous HMGs that might otherwise dig them out and make them incredibly hard to deal with.  

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I use only the AP HMG. I usually keep in in full cover near a secondary fire line while the Spetsnaz is working.

 

I only use him when the spetsnaz die (usually to an ARO crits from my opponent) or if my opponent use a TAG of heavily armored HI. Time to time, I use it to shoot an hard target the Spetsnaz didn't manage to kill (this way I can have one more suprise shot to bring it down).

 

No matter what, he always stay in his deployment area. To protect it, I will recamo it at the end of each turn, if possible in coordinated order with 2 to 3 other camo (Spetsnat, scout, chasseur..., I keep all my camo in 1 group if I can just for this)

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8 hours ago, Lazarus0909 said:

In all 3 cases, distance is your friend. You aren't fast enough to be running around the table, and your optimal range is always 16" or even further, so there's no need to push up the table. I'm also the kind of person who advises against turn 1 ARO overwatch - preferring in these cases to often have these models prone on a roof somewhere. Then when they do activate, they can stand up, surprise shot somebody on the active turn, and overwatch from turn 2 onwards to provide great AROs. If you use your T1/T2 wisely, you can ideally eliminate pieces like dangerous HMGs that might otherwise dig them out and make them incredibly hard to deal with.  

That is pretty much my modus operandi, too!

More often than not the AP HMG Tankhunter loadout sees the table only if the player want a third HMG besides the two HMG Spetsnaz he already has taken.

My impression is AP HMG Tankhunters are not bad at all but overshadowed by the HMG Spetsnaz - pretty much the best general killer in the whole game.

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Yeah for example, in limited insertion I think he comes into his own, because the odds of facing TAGs and mass armor goes up exponentially. So he still comes out of the case from time to time heh. 

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I've been let down by the APHMG version so many times that I'm thinking of popping his arms off and sticking the autocannon on him. In one tournament he was in both of my lists and I whiffed every roll, going down to reactive fire almost every time. Didn't make a single kill. The Spetznas HMG just outperforms him every time for me, so I'd rather go with the Autocannon or the LT option, and that would just be if I wanted an LT in camo (which I usually do with a Scout instead, as I go through SWC quickly in vanilla).

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so what i can gather from this information is that i may have been using him wrong, he is not a midfield piece like i thought but a guy who keeps a flank secure against some big nasties?. he should stay in your deployment zone and hang back, as an autocannon or ML he is more of a defensive piece and as a AP Hmg he is more a third spetsnaz am i right?

but i like the lieutenant option actually, i usually run either a khazak or a scout as a lieutenant.

one more question, do you find you ever use the D charges, i mean if he never gets out of the deployment zone he will hardly ever complete the classified. 

 

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Yeah, the SWC loadouts are long range strikers, I can't remember ever using the D-Charges on them (hence why I like the Scots Guard as a comparison). 

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Tankhunter, back in N2 be was one of the most feared Ariadna troopers, the problem lies in that the Spetsnaz HMG is probably a bit too good and everything else pales in comparison. 

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Don't forget the purpose of D-charges isn't necessarily to be the one to plant them (you have Uxia for that) but that he can detonate them from relative safety way in your backfield. Same as the Dozer in that capacity. Hell, if he's your Lt you can even use the Lt order for it on the last turn which is pretty classy. 

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2 minutes ago, Lazarus0909 said:

Hell, if he's your Lt you can even use the Lt order for it on the last turn which is pretty classy. 

He just can't look at the explosion when he does it.

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ah okay i like that. i should try it. i actually just painted the ap hmg up but some of him got frosted by the stupid vanish, so now i have to paint it again. sigh

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7 hours ago, Monster said:

ah okay i like that. i should try it. i actually just painted the ap hmg up but some of him got frosted by the stupid vanish, so now i have to paint it again. sigh

Use paint on gloss varnish, that'll usually remove the frosting, then you can use the original varnish again. 

Personally I don't trust spray varnish any more. 

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On 16/7/2017 at 6:14 AM, Col said:

Use paint on gloss varnish, that'll usually remove the frosting, then you can use the original varnish again. 

Personally I don't trust spray varnish any more. 

 i stripped the whole model and repainted it in a day..... and now i learn this ha... thanks man will remember next time.

do you paint on vanish then? or what do you use.

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31 minutes ago, Monster said:

 i stripped the whole model and repainted it in a day..... and now i learn this ha... thanks man will remember next time.

do you paint on vanish then? or what do you use.

I use the Windsor and Newton Galleria brush on acrylic varnish. If you have an air brush the Vallejo stuff is good too. 

I swore off aerosol varnish, too many frosting incidents and I'm living in a hot, humid climate now so that's a big no-go for aerosols. 

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On 7/16/2017 at 0:14 AM, Col said:

Use paint on gloss varnish, that'll usually remove the frosting, then you can use the original varnish again. 

Personally I don't trust spray varnish any more. 

You don't even really need to do this.

Matte spray varnish will remove the "frosting" from most gloss varnishes.

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I play on alot of very tight indoor boards. So alot of games heavy (SWC) weapons don't shine all that bright. I'm hoping for a resculpt of the autocannon tankhunter in the near future cause the current one is ugly. Been mulling scratch building my own.

During the first phase of Wotan the ADHL version worked wonders on hunting party. My opponents weren't expecting him.

I've tried to use the missile one a few times, but he's been rather lackluster for me. Still holding out hope for him though.

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