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Djevel

Double Oniwaban

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Hey,

I thought a bit about a double Oniwaban list. What did you think? A well and screw that SWC, we don not need them!

It is more a rush list. Try to get at the enemys half of the table with superior Infiltration. Rush with the Oniwaban, or with Kitsune and hold the other back in the midfield. Together with the Daofei and the guilang to bring chaos and board Control.

 

logo_201.png Shadow
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png7  orden_impetuosa.png4
logo_22.pngCELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_34.pngONIWABAN Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_11.pngGŬILÁNG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png8  
logo_40.pngSHINOBU Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0.5 | 47)
logo_7.pngDÀOFĚI MULTI Rifle / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 53)
logo_17.pngHÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
logo_38.pngYÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_35.pngTOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_39.pngPANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_19.pngCHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_2.pngZHÀNYING Lieutenant (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 26)
logo_1.pngZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

2.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

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I would drop the Yaozao to give the Daofei a Spitfire. Daofei love Spitfires. Your Engineer is probably just going to be hanging out prone next to the Husong anyway, so he doesn't really need the G: Servant. Your list, on the other hand, needs a hammer, and the Daofei Spitfire is a great hammer.

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And I really prefer Saito over the Oniwaban.  Pow13 or 14 EXP CCW is better at killing 2W models than the MonoCCW.  Does cost you Superior Infiltration, though.

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Saito is not available in Vanilla. And I dont want to play second class Citizen Army.

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You are wasting a lot SWC, i concur with the spiitfire dao fei and also add that you might consider changing your liutenant to the hmg version or hacker in order to give supportware to your husong and make the zhanshi the liutenant then,

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logo_201.png Shadow
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png7  orden_impetuosa.png4
logo_22.pngCELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_34.pngONIWABAN Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_11.pngGŬILÁNG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png9  
logo_16.pngWÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
logo_7.pngDÀOFĚI Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 55)
logo_40.pngSHINOBU Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0.5 | 47)
logo_17.pngHÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
logo_35.pngTOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_39.pngPANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_19.pngCHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_1.pngZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
logo_1.pngZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

4.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

So the next step. Bring on the Spitfire. Kicked out the Zhanying. Another Zanshi as Lt. and the Weibing should bring me one order more, and a Button Pusher more.

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This could be fun, the problem is not having much to fall back on if the Oniwabans slip on a banana peel and wind up dead or back in your deployment zone. 

Then again, if you manage to get some key dice rolls, you could be sitting pretty with a Dao Fei to mop things up.

 

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You have smoke, but the only msv you have is a guiliang ahd, TR bots are easy to deal with, and Raidens exist.

logo_201.png ftfy
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png8  orden_irregular.png1  orden_impetuosa.png3
logo_22.pngCELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_34.pngONIWABAN Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_11.pngGŬILÁNG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_36.pngRUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
logo_7.pngDÀOFĚI Lieutenant Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (1.5 | 55)
logo_48.pngWARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png7  
logo_16.pngWÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
logo_44.pngRAIDEN (Minelayer, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21)
logo_40.pngSHINOBU Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0.5 | 47)
logo_35.pngTOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_19.pngCHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_39.pngPANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_39.pngPANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

alternatively, bring a KHD

 

logo_201.png ftfy
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png10  orden_impetuosa.png4
logo_22.pngCELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_34.pngONIWABAN Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_11.pngGŬILÁNG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_36.pngRUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
logo_1.pngZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
logo_1.pngZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png8  
logo_16.pngWÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
logo_44.pngRAIDEN (Minelayer, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21)
logo_40.pngSHINOBU Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0.5 | 47)
logo_35.pngTOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_19.pngCHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_39.pngPANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_39.pngPANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_12.pngNINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)

4 SWC | 298 Points

Open in Infinity Army

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On 25.7.2017 at 8:08 AM, Djevel said:

Saito is not available in Vanilla. And I dont want to play second class Citizen Army.

wow what a cock. (so funny)

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4 hours ago, FatNezumi said:

wow what a cock. (so funny)

be nice.

After all, he's not wrong, the Japanese are treated like second-class citizens according to the fluff.

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7 hours ago, FatNezumi said:

wow what a cock. (so funny)

No that's you. Know your place, Nipponese filth.

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@Section 9 i wasnt trying to be mean. I

@Section 9 i wasn't trying to be mean. Its just such a cocky comment that's all.

@Rinlol


 

I think btw that Shinbu+ Oniwaban as the core of your list is a little ineffective. There equipment is to similar. Except the Oniwaban misses smoke which relay hurts him.  Monofilament weapons are not that effectiv versus armor 1 models. Its only damage 12 and you wont krit all the time. Exp ccw`s are a hole different story and saito togan is the reason this strategy can work in the 1st place. Oniwabans in the midfield sound like a cool idea but in reality i found that they end up trading themselves for models that are way below 40 points. It depends on the mission.

but if you want to try a list like that:

Sinbu has the ability to just rum by and kill the Lieutenant 1st turn that's why i want at least 9 orders in her Pool also i would Pair the Kunangshi with a monk so you don't have to worry about the Impetuous. I am building off your list here:

logo_201.png Shadow
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.pngorden_irregular.pngorden_impetuosa.png5
logo_40.pngSHINOBU Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0.5 | 47)
logo_11.pngGŬILÁNG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_22.pngCELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
logo_1.pngZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
logo_1.pngZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_13.pngSHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.pngorden_irregular.png1  
logo_7.pngDÀOFĚI MULTI Rifle / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 53)
logo_34.pngONIWABAN Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_35.pngTOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_35.pngTOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_1.pngZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
logo_19.pngCHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_21.pngKEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
logo_21.pngKEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
logo_48.pngWARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

1.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army


 


 

I added 2 Zhanshi and 2 Keisotsu a Tokusetsu and a monk also got switched the Pal-bot for a war core. You kind of want to have 1st turn with a list like that which will cost you two orders and if you don't get the 1st turn you need enough orders to stay active with your assassins. You could drop 1 cheerleader for some specialists but that is up to you.


 

I agree but if you bring the husong you probably want a Hacker. Assisted Fire + TR is ugly. But you don't need TR bots.


 

Just make sure you eliminate all possible Lieutenants at turn 1 if able.


 

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Tested the list (the one with the Daofei) on a small tournament. And it worked very well. Yes it is not a outmaxed List, but it was a funny thing to play with Daofei and two Oniwaban. And the face of your opponent when u place the second Oniwaban is great.

I use Oniwaban and Shinobu to kill the expensive things. TAGs and HI are my prefered targets, and shinobu always get her points, even when you trade her.

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So here's another question about double Oniwaban...   Since there is only one model for him, has anyone found a good way to convert a different pose?  The unusual way he's holding his sword seems to make it difficult to repose the model but maybe there's a good arm swap from another model or something?

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2 hours ago, dboeren said:

So here's another question about double Oniwaban...   Since there is only one model for him, has anyone found a good way to convert a different pose?  The unusual way he's holding his sword seems to make it difficult to repose the model but maybe there's a good arm swap from another model or something?

Use the dude from the outrage box? :) 

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I find the lack of Sun-tze in this thread... disturbing, to say the least. Think speculo + avatar/fiday + Saladin shenanigans, but made in china. I'd say this is the main reason to try this kind of stuff outside of JSA. Also i don't really like to build second group just for orders (or maybe i just suck at it), so i'd rather have one full group with all the camo dudes and use Coordinated orders to make it more effective, while the second group is here for aro and support.

logo_201.png Shadow Lord Sun-Tze
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png10  orden_impetuosa.png4
logo_20.pngSUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 65)
logo_34.pngONIWABAN Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 41)
logo_40.pngSHINOBU Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0.5 | 47)
logo_11.pngGŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_11.pngGŬILÁNG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
logo_22.pngCELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png3  orden_irregular.png5  orden_impetuosa.png4
logo_21.pngKEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
logo_35.pngTOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_38.pngYÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_13.pngSHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
logo_13.pngSHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
logo_13.pngSHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
logo_13.pngSHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
logo_19.pngCHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_48.pngWARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

2 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

On 31/08/2017 at 5:34 PM, FatNezumi said:

I think btw that Shinbu+ Oniwaban as the core of your list is a little ineffective. There equipment is to similar. Except the Oniwaban misses smoke which relay hurts him.  Monofilament weapons are not that effectiv versus armor 1 models. Its only damage 12 and you wont krit all the time. Exp ccw`s are a hole different story and saito togan is the reason this strategy can work in the 1st place. Oniwabans in the midfield sound like a cool idea but in reality i found that they end up trading themselves for models that are way below 40 points. It depends on the mission.

That's what shotguns and rifles are for, you really just want to get in CC against very though target.

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Somehow it always gets swept under the rug that a TO Camo dude with a Combi or BSG is a significant threat.

While TO Camo BS11 BSG is nothing special it is still workable and does significant damage against bunched up targets - which is why I tend to prefer the Oniwaban + Saito combo over Shinobu. Saito is simply more reliable at dispatching most targets in CC and cheaper, while the BSG on the Oniwaban is pretty nasty. Chugging a Smoke on a Link and taking them apart inside it one by one is the one thing S

Shinobu kills single cheerleaders better than the Oniwaban and has the edge in CC thanks to CC25, MA5 and Smoke. But she pays a premium that could get you another Order or tool instead.

Oniwaban is the better opportunist thanks to the BSG.

Thanks to Smoke+Combi+EXP CCW Saito takes the cake for reliability.

 

Nothing wrong with either choice, but they're all a bit different - Shinobu handily beats even MA4 troops with her MA5 and Surprise Attack, which comes up once in a blue moon. Having the Smoke abvailable when you need it clearly beats not having the Smoke available considering it's cost. BSG template and AP is nice, but so is SF.

With Kuang Shi not linkable in Vanilla, I'd say JSA does double super ninja better.

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I always read: Saito. But remember in a Yu Jing Vanilla list there is no Saito!

I play Shinobu as a heavy Weapon remover. I understand why the BSG Oniwaban is more reliable for you, but when i have a rampaging TAG on the field, Shinobu is the safest way to take him out. Worked well in most of my games.

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16 hours ago, Zewrath said:

Use the dude from the outrage box? :) 

Yeah, that will work - provided I can find someone to split the set with.

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On 9.9.2017 at 9:06 AM, Djevel said:

I always read: Saito. But remember in a Yu Jing Vanilla list there is no Saito!

I play Shinobu as a heavy Weapon remover. I understand why the BSG Oniwaban is more reliable for you, but when i have a rampaging TAG on the field, Shinobu is the safest way to take him out. Worked well in most of my games.

Nah if it wasn't clear, my opinion on the matter is "JSA seems to doe it better - so consider that instead". If you want to go with Vanilla YJ, you should leverage Vanilla's strong points as well as Shinobu + Oniwaban.

Vanillas "autopick" options are first and foremost Monks. They're stupid good and versatile and only 5 points. Cramming in 2-4 is pretty much always an option. Even more so with fragile Ninjas/Oniwabans/Shinobu to drop Smoke for them,  clear out Mines, Koalas, or simply Chainrifle annoying things out of the way. With Monks a MSV2 of some sort is pretty strong (and cheap in shape of a Rui Shi). While JSA also has the Rui Shi, their cheapest Smoke is just as expensive as the REM.

Dao Fei is pretty good I guess, although I am not the biggest fan of naked Multirifles. They're great guns, but you usually get a better package on top when you take them (like Sun Tzse Lt. or HMG+MR in a Link to cover 32" of +3 Rangebands).

The Gui Lang AHD is a bit unual but after thinking about it for a bit, it's actually good to immobilze something for an easy Monofilament kill.

For the Zhanying... I really have trouble seeing their worth outside ISS. They drop dead fairly easily and cost as much as a Sensor Bot + another Order. Inbetween the cost of half a dozen Skills and upgraded weaponry I find them hard to use without a Link to deliver them Sensor range. Since you've dropped him in a later version of the list, you've lost the Sensor entirely. Some sort of MSV or Sensor to Discover Camo Tokens is pretty crucial. Otherwise you need to Smoke past them and it could always be a Mine. Camo DTWs, Mines, Minelayers or Intruders can all ruin your day pretty quick. Alternatively a Kanren can at least clear potential Mines with his Holoechoes and provides some backup close by.

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5 hours ago, Teslarod said:

Dao Fei is pretty good I guess, although I am not the biggest fan of naked Multirifles. They're great guns, but you usually get a better package on top when you take them (like Sun Tzse Lt. or HMG+MR in a Link to cover 32" of +3 Rangebands).

I would argue that the Daofei is actually the best MUTLI Rifle user in the whole of Yu Jing, because Infiltration fixes the gun's biggest weakness: range. Camouflage and the packaged Surprise Shot are also very powerful, easy to leverage tools. 

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1 hour ago, KestrelM1 said:

I would argue that the Daofei is actually the best MUTLI Rifle user in the whole of Yu Jing, because Infiltration fixes the gun's biggest weakness: range. Camouflage and the packaged Surprise Shot are also very powerful, easy to leverage tools. 

If it wasn't a 50+ points HI with HMG and Spitfire options I'd be inclined to agree.

But since it has those options, the MR is kind of a joke next to those and a Haq Tao KDH/AHD with MR. AP/Shock is great, but it simply doesn't beat extended Rangebands, +1/2 DAM and +1 B that easily against the majority of targets. And with Oniwaban/Shinobu I'd argue you want it to kill soft targets and let the Mono CCWs kill the hard stuff.

I always find it hard not to put SWC weapon on your most expensive shooters, Burst is the biggest advantage you can give them and that means - HMG/Spitfire.

 

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MR is an excellent weapon for utility profiles. It makes for a perfect weapon for the hacker profile, it's just a shame Daofei doesn't have a Killer Hacker option - or for that matter more utility profiles. I think the blank BSG or blank MR profiles are a bit redundant and in general that the game could use a pass on removing similar profiles (not across the board, but reducing the number of them - realizing when a unit is about the utility profiles and not about the brawler profiles)

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