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BlackCadian

Hac Tao and Daofei worth their points?

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Hi everyone!

I had my first game with Yu Jing last week and while it was enjoyable I know I still have a long way to go to learn all the intricacies of the army.

I particularly like the Daofei and the Hac Tao, but both were so-so in the game. The Daofei got blown up by a LGL in a Regular Link, the Hac Tao was a little unlucky and had to contend with hacking AROs thanks to a well placed Peacemaker. 

In general, would you say both units are worth their high point cost, and what do they excel at in you opinion?

By the way I brought the HMG Hac Tao and the Hacker Daofei, but I'm certainly open to all load outs. 

Thanks!

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I'm about to go to bed so i'll keep it short and reply better tomorrow.

But: YES!!!!

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24 minutes ago, Razgriz said:

I'm about to go to bed so i'll keep it short and reply better tomorrow.

But: YES!!!!

In that case thanks in advance and good night 😁

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Yes, they're definitely worth it.

Remember, that both HIs have Stealth thanks to their camo. So if the hacker couldn't see your Hac Tao you should be able to safely move out of Repeater's range.

Daofei losing to linked LGL means you were quite unlucky. Did you lose both wounds to one ARO? Could you describe the situation?

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Yes, they're worth their points. There's hardly anything in Yu Jing not worth its points, although fingers still point at the Multi-Sniper and Hacker variants of the Pheasant Rank as well as the Sniper Tiger Soldier.

Just remember that despite great toughness, anything in this game can die, especially from bad luck.

At the end of the day they're both Heavy Infantry with two wounds and camouflage, not only being harder to hit, giving surprise shots, but also better able to take the hits with their high armor. They still have high PH to dodge shots and high stats overall. Daofei's unique in being able to infiltrate as a camouflage marker. They serve us well in both killing and pushing buttons.

Yu Jing overall has several excellent sources of Killer Hacking Devices to deal with enemy hackers. Firewall is easy to set up too. 

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Yes.

The Daofei is unique in that it is the only infiltrating HI in the game. It is a midfield skirmisher that can take and hold an area fairly easily and the hacker profile can lock parts of the board down.

The Hac Tao is one of the best HI in the game. Try the Killer hacker profile next time, it is one of the most unfair profiles in the game since it takes away it's weakness to hacking.

Remember:

Marker state gives you surprise shot when revealing on your turn. This applies to shooting and hacking. 

You cannot be attacked while in marker state unless you reveal or the enemy discovers you, which means you can walk by enemy controlled areas without being shot or hacked.

Having camo gives both models stealth, this means if your walking through a repeater net they can't hack you as long as you only do movement skills. 

You can spend a full order to recamo your troop as long as no one is looking at him, this will protect your expensive HI from attacks as your opponent will have to discover him first to even attack him.

Don't reveal your camo markers in aro unless you have a very good reason to do so, this will keep your models fairly safe until your turn.

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1 hour ago, Stiopa said:

Yes, they're definitely worth it.

Remember, that both HIs have Stealth thanks to their camo. So if the hacker couldn't see your Hac Tao you should be able to safely move out of Repeater's range.

Daofei losing to linked LGL means you were quite unlucky. Did you lose both wounds to one ARO? Could you describe the situation?

So many good answers so fast :) The Hac Tao was supposed to dislodge the pesky link of Regulars, able to draw sights on the Sniper and a Combi. I won the ftf against the Sniper getting 3 hits in but she passed all 3 armor rolls. The combi hit me but he shrugged it off. Then Scylla AROd with Carbonite through the Peacemaker around the corner but missed. I then had to move back to re-camo and try again next turn, this time it worked. Then took out the Peacemaker but got downed by his Auxbot. Too late anyway, had the Tikbalang freely roaming around after the Daofei had gone down.

The Daofei was on a catwalk out of sight, got hit by both grenades out of the link (failed his dodge) and failed both armor saves -.-

1 hour ago, Stormygeddon said:

 

Yu Jing overall has several excellent sources of Killer Hacking Devices to deal with enemy hackers. Firewall is easy to set up too. 

Yeah that was the original plan - my first order of the game was spent in my Ninja KHD to Redrum the Regular Hacker - only to get Brain Blasted by Scylla instead *sigh*. Had a hard time deciding between Redrum and Trinity, too - which is better in which situation you'd say? 

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15 minutes ago, BlackCadian said:

Had a hard time deciding between Redrum and Trinity, too - which is better in which situation you'd say? 

Redrum, basically always.  There's a big thread in the Access Guide about Killer hackers and what program to use.

 

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2 hours ago, Zavros said:

Yes.

The Daofei is unique in that it is the only infiltrating HI in the game. It is a midfield skirmisher that can take and hold an area fairly easily and the hacker profile can lock parts of the board down.

The Hac Tao is one of the best HI in the game. Try the Killer hacker profile next time, it is one of the most unfair profiles in the game since it takes away it's weakness to hacking.

Remember:

Marker state gives you surprise shot when revealing on your turn. This applies to shooting and hacking. 

You cannot be attacked while in marker state unless you reveal or the enemy discovers you, which means you can walk by enemy controlled areas without being shot or hacked.

Having camo gives both models stealth, this means if your walking through a repeater net they can't hack you as long as you only do movement skills. 

You can spend a full order to recamo your troop as long as no one is looking at him, this will protect your expensive HI from attacks as your opponent will have to discover him first to even attack him.

Don't reveal your camo markers in aro unless you have a very good reason to do so, this will keep your models fairly safe until your turn.

Hmmm I don't understand the value of a Hac Tao KHD at all. Sure, I might be protected against hacking, but as you pointed out a TO camo model is already fairly well protected. So I gain more protection but lose a significant amount of offense. Having to hoof it halfway across the board to plink at something with my combi equivalent doesn't seem as appealing as spitting 4 dice at opponents from all the way across the battlefield. 

And thanks for the bullet points, always good re-read stuff like that, very important all of it.

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22 minutes ago, BlackCadian said:

Hmmm I don't understand the value of a Hac Tao KHD at all. Sure, I might be protected against hacking, but as you pointed out a TO camo model is already fairly well protected. So I gain more protection but lose a significant amount of offense. Having to hoof it halfway across the board to plink at something with my combi equivalent doesn't seem as appealing as spitting 4 dice at opponents from all the way across the battlefield. 

And thanks for the bullet points, always good re-read stuff like that, very important all of it.

Some metas involve hiding and not exposing reactive troops on long firelanes. The Hac Tao will probably have to hoof it halfway across the board to engage the enemy, but you might not be in your good range anymore with the hmg. Not saying the HMG profile is bad(its great) but they have different purposes.

Hac Tao killer hacker is a rambo model that can fill multiple roles as a hacker and specialist.  A multi-rifle is a good flanking tool as your generally catching units out of cover and the fire modes give you more efficiency in your attacks (takes less orders to kill models vs a combi rifle). 

Camo state will protect you from attacks while crossing the board but not after you reveal. Good opponents will have layered defenses making it hard to engage the targets you want to engage without taking an unwanted aro, which is usually a hacker trying to isolate or immobolize you to stop your rambo model and basically kill it since you can't recamo it before their turn starts. The killer Hac Tao can just kill their hackers through any repeater coverage and then continue to be brutally effective. 

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Yes. /thread

 

The trick with using TO or Camo units is to always put them back into marker state so they can't be targeted by Hackers, Speculative Fire or random HMG grunts. Once you start doing that TO/Camo HI becomes almost immortal.

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5 hours ago, Zavros said:

Some metas involve hiding and not exposing reactive troops on long firelanes. The Hac Tao will probably have to hoof it halfway across the board to engage the enemy, but you might not be in your good range anymore with the hmg. Not saying the HMG profile is bad(its great) but they have different purposes.

Hac Tao killer hacker is a rambo model that can fill multiple roles as a hacker and specialist.  A multi-rifle is a good flanking tool as your generally catching units out of cover and the fire modes give you more efficiency in your attacks (takes less orders to kill models vs a combi rifle). 

Camo state will protect you from attacks while crossing the board but not after you reveal. Good opponents will have layered defenses making it hard to engage the targets you want to engage without taking an unwanted aro, which is usually a hacker trying to isolate or immobolize you to stop your rambo model and basically kill it since you can't recamo it before their turn starts. The killer Hac Tao can just kill their hackers through any repeater coverage and then continue to be brutally effective. 

If an enemy hacker has a repeater trying to hack a HI and in that area is a remote of yours with repeater as well, can you use the KHD to hack the enemy Hacker via your repeater? (1: Tao KHD, 2: Your remote (like rui shi),3: enemy repeater (the enemy hacker uses that to hack Hsien))

I fear though that multi-rifle is too short range. You need at least an other heavy model with a heavy weapon (like Daofei, Crane, Yan Huo) to apply pressure. Hsien and Su jian might be  too expensive, a tag  too big, and I fear that Yan Huo lacks mobility.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Commoner1 said:

Yes. /thread

 

The trick with using TO or Camo units is to always put them back into marker state so they can't be targeted by Hackers, Speculative Fire or random HMG grunts. Once you start doing that TO/Camo HI becomes almost immortal.

O.O I totally forgot that they can't be hacked in camo... Can you coordinate order to return in camo ?

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3 minutes ago, Chado said:

If an enemy hacker has a repeater trying to hack a HI and in that area is a remote of yours with repeater as well, can you use the KHD to hack the enemy Hacker via your repeater? (1: Tao KHD, 2: Your remote (like rui shi),3: enemy repeater (the enemy hacker uses that to hack Hsien))

 

You can only use an enemy Repeater if it is in the ZoC of your hacker. This means you can't daisy chain them. 

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Just keep in mind that entering Camo is A.) subject to ARO and B.) not helped by Stealth. So keep yourself clear of enemy repeaters, hackers, LOF, and sniffers when re-camoing. Don't want to take a Skullbuster to the brain when re-camoing.

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I agree with the other players, Dao Fei and Hac Tao are amazing units, despite their cost that is fair enough, I really like both but I've a preference for the second, with TO CAMO it can easily win many duel and has ARM5!

Next week I wanna absolutely play at least one of these two :thumb-up:, one of my last creation includes both :

logo_201.png Hac + Dao
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png9  
logo_7.pngDÀOFĚI Lieutenant Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (1.5 | 55)
logo_19.pngCHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_12.pngNINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_35.pngTOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_35.pngTOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_38.pngYÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_44.pngRAIDEN (Minelayer, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21)
logo_11.pngGŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_21.pngKEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
logo_21.pngKEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png6  orden_irregular.png2  orden_impetuosa.png6
logo_22.pngCELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_23.pngKUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
logo_13.pngSHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
logo_13.pngSHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
logo_8.pngHAC TAO (Executive Order) HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 69)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

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15 hours ago, Chado said:

I fear though that multi-rifle is too short range. You need at least an other heavy model with a heavy weapon (like Daofei, Crane, Yan Huo) to apply pressure. Hsien and Su jian might be  too expensive, a tag  too big, and I fear that Yan Huo lacks mobility.

Yes, it's a short-mid range weapon which is why you use the camo marker state to just walk up the board unharmed into a flanking position.

Yes another heavy model is very helpful and it's role can be the long range engager, you don't just bring the Hac Tao and call it a day.

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On 7/27/2017 at 8:40 AM, BlackCadian said:

Hmmm I don't understand the value of a Hac Tao KHD at all. Sure, I might be protected against hacking, but as you pointed out a TO camo model is already fairly well protected. So I gain more protection but lose a significant amount of offense. Having to hoof it halfway across the board to plink at something with my combi equivalent doesn't seem as appealing as spitting 4 dice at opponents from all the way across the battlefield. 

Yeah there are a few valuable applications there.

For one, the MULTI Rifle is a really valuable weapon.  It may just seem like a Combi equivalent, but it's probably the best Suppressive Fire weapon in the game due to its ammunition options, and is a nice way to move in close and flush hard targets that are hiding from your MULTI Snipers or HMGs.  

Secondly, having the Hac Tao as a Specialist is a big deal, and since your only options are KHD or Assault Device, the KHD is the better option for cheap cost as well as more deadly hacking programs to attack or defend himself with.

To paint a picture: having one of the game's most durable units to help control the midfield is very strong.  A Camo Guilang or TO Camo ninja is still very vulnerable to an antipersonnel mine, Chain Rifle, lobbed, grenade, etc.

But a Hac Tao is much, much more resilient to those types of threats.  In particular, this means the Hac Taco can assault well-defended objectives and force his way through a tough defense, where lighter troops wouldn't stand a chance.  The ability to use TO Camo, Impersonation, or simply walking past threats with high PH and ARM5 means it's basically impossible to stop the Hac Tao from reaching an area of the table that he's determined to get to.  This type of application is really valuable for objective-oriented play.

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I am VERY much looking forward to the Red Veil expansion so I can field the DaoFei with an HMG!

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10 hours ago, MoPaint said:

I am VERY much looking forward to the Red Veil expansion so I can field the DaoFei with an HMG!

Unfortunately, the HMG is the least appropriate weapon on an infiltrator, and the Hac Tao and Hsien are better HMG platforms in my opinion. 

I'm still salty over giving the Dao Fei an HMG rather than a spitfire. 

I'll see myself out.

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11 minutes ago, HotFreshTofu said:

Unfortunately, the HMG is the least appropriate weapon on an infiltrator, and the Hac Tao and Hsien are better HMG platforms in my opinion. 

I'm still salty over giving the Dao Fei an HMG rather than a spitfire. 

I'll see myself out.

My thoughts exactly lol

Good thing I still have the spitfire from the spec op blister. 

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8 hours ago, HotFreshTofu said:

Unfortunately, the HMG is the least appropriate weapon on an infiltrator, and the Hac Tao and Hsien are better HMG platforms in my opinion. 

I'm still salty over giving the Dao Fei an HMG rather than a spitfire. 

I'll see myself out.

I'm still very new to the game. Can you explain please? 

 

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31 minutes ago, MoPaint said:

I'm still very new to the game. Can you explain please? 

 

Dàofěi infiltrate, this makes it trivial to get in the 8-24" sweet spot of a Spitfire, and even rifle range isn't hard. 

An HMG is a keepaway gun though, it works best when there's half the board between you and the target. This makes it great for heavy hitters that start in the DZ like the Hac Tao or Hsien, but on an infiltrating trooper like the Dàofěi it's too easy to find an enemy in your +0 or - 3 range band. 

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Thanks! That makes perfect sense!

 

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Yeah, basically what Col said.

Just compare the range bands on HMG, Spitfire and Multirifle. There is nothing wrong with deploying a Daofei further back, but then, why bother with infiltration? at that point I feel it is objectively better to upgrade to a Hactao (unless you really can not afford it for some reason, though I never have that problem.)

Conversely a Hactao can not infiltrate nor carry a spitfire. As for multi rifle profiles, I'd say its a matter of personal opinion as to which is best. Both are excellent.

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