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Hexa

Is there a default effect for "adverse" terrain?

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I'm preparing for a Tagline event in about a month, and some of the missions specify Jungle terrain, which the rulebook lists as Adverse.

 

According to the wiki (since the rulebooks don't cover it and I don't happen to have Paradiso) all hostile environments have an effect from a table and players either roll or pick one: my best guess is that Tagline is intended to roll before the game? After choosing lists?

 

The hostile environment rules are rather unclear and hard to find compared to the more recent ones.

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6 answers to this question

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http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Special_Terrain_Rules#Hostile_Environment

http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Hostile_Environment

However, you've also got the exact specifications for the recommended level of terrain specified for each mission that has one, which are fairly lenient:

First mission: Just a saturation zone.

Second mission:
» Environment: Jungle.
» Type of Terrain: Jungle.
» MOV Difficulty: Difficult.
» Visibility  Condition:  Low
Visibility.
» Saturation: Saturation Zone.
» Hostility level: --

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19 minutes ago, Mahtamori said:

...you've also got the exact specifications for the recommended level of terrain specified for each mission that has one, which are fairly lenient:

» Environment: Jungle.
» Type of Terrain: Jungle.
» MOV Difficulty: Difficult.
» Visibility  Condition:  Low
Visibility.
» Saturation: Saturation Zone.
» Hostility level: --

Um, the wiki you link to and my rulebook both have it as:

Jungle Jungle Very Difficult Low Visibility Saturation Zone Adverse

 

"You can complete your Special Terrain by using the Hostile Environment rules".

 

"Can". Hardly clear, tournament suitable terminology. Is it theoretically obligatory in missions which specify the terrain category without further details? Or assumed to not to be used unless specifically agreed on?

 

"The Attribute required for the ARM, BTS o PH Roll and the Damage value or the effect can be determined by the scenario, by mutual accord between players or through a d20 roll on the following chart."

"The roll on the Hostility Level-Attribute-Damage Chart must be made before Deployment."

The scenario doesn't specify, mutual agreement could theoretically be a problem in a tournament (however unlikely it is in practice), so I suppose rolling is all that's left?

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12 minutes ago, Hexa said:

 The scenario doesn't specify, mutual agreement could theoretically be a problem in a tournament (however unlikely it is in practice), so I suppose rolling is all that's left?

Event organiser decides. If it's a friendly get-together, you all just have to get along and come to an agreement.

The suggested terrain rules for the second mission (and second mission only) is Difficult Jungle Terrain that produces Low Visibility and Saturation Zone at no hostility level, applied only outside Deployment Zones and only at ground level (so not on bridges or buildings or on roads). The rules also states that the rules may be changed at the TO's discretion. "Jungle" only specifies what type of terrain, not how to treat it - meaning Tikbalangs will be having a field day on this mission, but everyone else are only mildly inconvenienced.

Keep in mind that Hostility Level is Campaign: Paradiso stuff, and even those who regularly play with terrain rules tend to not play with those.

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25 minutes ago, Hexa said:

Um, the wiki you link to and my rulebook both have it as:

Jungle Jungle Very Difficult Low Visibility Saturation Zone Adverse

 

The tables in the book/wiki are examples, not strict requirements.  There's no reason you can't choose to have "Jungle" terrain with lower difficulty, as listed in the scenario description.

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Rereading my last post I think it may have come across as argumentative or as some kind of angry rules lawyer, if it did then sorry. I'm wanting to work out the official ruling before bringing it up to the group, at which point it may well get house-ruled.

1 hour ago, Mahtamori said:

Event organiser decides. If it's a friendly get-together, you all just have to get along and come to an agreement.

Well, yes, I'm just trying to find the official version.

 

1 hour ago, Mahtamori said:

The suggested terrain rules for the second mission (and second mission only) is Difficult Jungle Terrain that produces Low Visibility and Saturation Zone at no hostility level, applied only outside Deployment Zones and only at ground level (so not on bridges or buildings or on roads). The rules also states that the rules may be changed at the TO's discretion. "Jungle" only specifies what type of terrain, not how to treat it...

 Where are you finding this suggested ruleset? I expect it's what we'll use, but from Tagline all I can find is:

"Environment: Jungle.The entire surface of the game table, except both Deployment Zones and the interiors and rooftops of buildings, are treated as Jungle Terrain."

If this isn't referring to the sample terrain in the rulebook then I can't see what it means, since it doesn't seem to otherwise state this is even difficult terrain. Obviously it is, but what sort isn't clear then.

 

1 hour ago, ToadChild said:

The tables in the book/wiki are examples, not strict requirements.  There's no reason you can't choose to have "Jungle" terrain with lower difficulty, as listed in the scenario description.

It's listed? Maybe my Tagline file is out of date, I'll check that.

I know you can have other terrain types which fit under the same movement skill, the problem is that with no further detail I would assume Jungle terrain to be the example type rather than an unfinished description, at least for finished scenarios.

2 hours ago, Mahtamori said:

First mission: Just a saturation zone.

Yes, since it's called "thicket" I only discovered it's not difficult terrain after my first post.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Hexa said:

It's listed? Maybe my Tagline file is out of date, I'll check that.

Oh. Someone edited the document and added it. Whoops, that makes me feel a bit silly.

 

I suppose my question is somewhat void now, since I don't know of an official mission which specifies terrain without giving the details about how hostile it isn't.

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7 hours ago, Hexa said:

It's listed? Maybe my Tagline file is out of date, I'll check that.

 

My version says the same thing @Mahtamori quoted above for chapter 2 (pg 7).

  • Environment: Jungle
  • Type of Terrain: Jungle
  • MOV Difficulty: Difficult
  • Visibility Condition: Low Visibility
  • Saturation: Saturation Zone
  • Hostility Level: --
  • This is a Special Terrain suggestion, but the TO can choose to modify the difficulty and conditions keeping the Type of Terrain.

So it will have all those attributes instead of the ones in the table in the book.  If you want to bypass the movement penalty, you need the Jungle Terrain skill or Multiterrain (note that some Multiterrain models only have access to a subset).  The visibility penalty can by bypassed with MSV, and there's nothing you can do to avoid the Saturation Zone if you fire through the terrain area.

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