AdmiralJCJF

I Have To Get This Off My Chest

246 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, Cartographer said:

Teutons were:
MOV 4-4 CC 18 BS 14 PHY 14 WIP 13 ARM 3 BTS -6 W 2 AVA4
Regular, Frenzy
Berserk, Jungle, Religious, V:Courage

They had exactly the same loadouts as now but cost:

Combi, Panzer, APCCW 42/0
Combi, Panzer, EXPCCW 44/0
Spitfire, APCCW 46/2
(Lieutenant) Combi, Panzer, APCCW 42/1

Fireteam: Core

So they lost Core and V:Courage, and got a ~20% points reduction.

Well, the benefit of V:Courage got swallowed up in the changes to Religious Troops.

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7 hours ago, Macbain said:

PanO outcomplains Yu-Jing?

It's the good old times again.

Xo57DcB.jpg

 

See, it's exactly this which doesn't happen in the other forums.

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I wish it did the memes are weak here. I'll welcome cheeky rivalry in the Nomads forum.

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8 hours ago, DUCK said:

Have you SEEN how many auxbots and REMs we can take? Even our TAGs are "drones"!

QFT. I really like going REM heavy with PanO. I think I'll need a second Dronbot box soon.

Though I go light on Auxbots as I'm not sold on Peacemaker and Auxilia have very bad models (thankfully Order Sergeants work well as Auxilia-proxies) and none other Auxbot profile seems that interesting to me. Well, aside from Guarda de Assalto maybe, but that's 50pts for an ARM3 guy. And I don't play sectorials often enough to include Devabots as well.

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10 hours ago, SmaggTheSmug said:

If I talk to 40k people, I always describe PanO as "the Tau with some allied Catholic Marines". They are not a generalist army. Yes, it's easy to complain when it is clear we lack something (like the entire Warbands section), but honestly: I don't want any warbands in my PanO. I play PanO to decimate enemies from afar, not throw bodies into the meatgrinder. Think of it as a faction that does not like seeing their soldiers killed.

As funny as that sounds, Pano is really nothing like the Tau. In fact, its pretty much impossible to compare playstyles between Infinity and 40k since the games are so different.

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2 minutes ago, Death said:

As funny as that sounds, Pano is really nothing like the Tau.

1. Focused on shooting, shitty to mediocre in mellee

2. Has a lot of advanced mechs, including jumping ones

3. Likes their Remotes, especially G:Synced (like a drone attached to a Tau unit)

4. In fluff characterized by their shiny tech and playing "the good guys" and is also very multicultural.

It's obviously not a 1:1 translation, but that's the quickest way to describe PanO to a 40k player (who, due to their blueness and Knights, will probably think they're the Space Marine "all-rounder" army).

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43 minutes ago, SmaggTheSmug said:

1. Focused on shooting, shitty to mediocre in mellee

2. Has a lot of advanced mechs, including jumping ones

3. Likes their Remotes, especially G:Synced (like a drone attached to a Tau unit)

4. In fluff characterized by their shiny tech and playing "the good guys" and is also very multicultural.

It's obviously not a 1:1 translation, but that's the quickest way to describe PanO to a 40k player (who, due to their blueness and Knights, will probably think they're the Space Marine "all-rounder" army).

Eh. It just feels like it will lead to a lot of misperceptions. The connections feel really weak. People play TAU because they want to field a lot of mecha and thats just not how Infinity works. And lacking CC ability isn't a big deal in infinity while CC is far more important in 40k.

I wouldn't want newbies to avoid Pano because they thought being weak in CC would suck as much as it does for the TAU. Also, Tau are a medium BS/durability army while Pano is a more elite army.

Heck, Onyx force might be more Tau. More super jump units, lots of remotes. super jump TAG. Even then, the connection is superficial at best.

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@SmaggTheSmug you lost me the second where an expensive MA3+ troop is a faction feature. YJ has stuff that is worlds above that if you care about keeping things distinct. Heck, PanO already has two named MA3 HI. Looking at our specop characters who can't be bothered to train their shooting skills beyond linetrooper capability, what would be the reasoning behind not handing out MA 1-3 to some more Knights for the according price when it's already in the faction?

You said it yourself, it's only half as strong as usual and is mostly defensively. Sure would be nice if it would at least be on a somewhat useable level though.

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Actually, in N3 I feel like the Knights have decent melee skills. MA3 isn't nearly as important as it use to be. MA 1 is often good enough. VS melee experts a knight can more often than not just blast them off the table with shooting.

The main difference that makes Yu Jing better at Melee is the tools necessary to get into Melee more easily. Camo marker for ninjas and smoke for warbands.

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You get a much better appreciation for Close Combat when you play a couple games of nothing but CC models and basically ignore any shooting outside rifle ranges.

 

I'm going to have to do that again when I get around to finishing my Mercedarian Order force, learn what kanniggits are worth a damn in CC and what models need to run like little girls.

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Or you play CHA and you start deleting things and essentially bypassong the games core mechanics

And while knoghts arent jsa or CHA level of cc they arent overly far behind and way ahead of most of the factions

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CC is by far the deadliest thing in the game. As usual for PanO there are capable choices outperforming others. A Magister/Santiago/Hospitaler/DeFe/Joany Link can keep up with the best and all of them are capable and deadly on their own. It's mostly the combination of MA, Feenzy/ExImp and decent CC stat that keeps them good.

Fatherknight, Montesa, Locust and Teuton all have useable CC Skill and the means to get in Range by shooting their way there. A second wound on CC guys really helps getting to use it and make it stick. But they're all lacking a Skill or two of those making the earlier Options a full package. KothS is just a Hospitaler with slightly different Stats and a Holo Projektor for Surprise Attack/Shot. Inbetween the cost for Holo2 and the discount for Frenzy the KothS ends up 15 points more expensive and very limited in Options for a quite similar platform. That's imho just not enough for the 56 points next to Joan, Santiagos or Hospitalers. MA3/4 + DA CCW and Surprise Attack would make him very deadly in CC for his premium pricetag. I'd love that as it would be a Knight with PanO's highest CC capability as well a way to get there - for a lot of points.

 

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1 hour ago, Daboarder said:

Or you play CHA and you start deleting things and essentially bypassong the games core mechanics

Not really. It tends to take up more orders to eliminate targets with CC than BS. Though CHA is a melee focused army they can still bring some serious firepower. Its not like the CHA acts like a 40k melee army where your all in and every unit is rushing into melee because thats all you can do.

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6 minutes ago, Death said:

Not really. It tends to take up more orders to eliminate targets with CC than BS. Though CHA is a melee focused army they can still bring some serious firepower. Its not like the CHA acts like a 40k melee army where your all in and every unit is rushing into melee because thats all you can do.

youd be surprised, once the ranged stuff is dead by Cateran and Grey the Gals can move in, Anything thats too hard for a Chain rifle to reliably crack is most certainly Gal bait for CC. you move em in and clean the opponent out

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2 minutes ago, Daboarder said:

youd be surprised, once the ranged stuff is dead by Cateran and Grey the Gals can move in, Anything thats too hard for a Chain rifle to reliably crack is most certainly Gal bait for CC. you move em in and clean the opponent out

Your still using more shooting than some 40k armies. Heck, chain rifles are still a shooting attack. :P 

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Just now, Death said:

Your still using more shooting than some 40k armies. lol

so? that doesnt make my original statement or its core premise incorrect

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1 minute ago, Daboarder said:

so? that doesnt make my original statement or its core premise incorrect

I just took issue with the whole "ignoring core mechanics". Its not.

I'm basicly nitpicking. lol

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Just now, Death said:

I just took issue with the whole "ignoring core mechanics". Its not.

I was referring to the Face to Face roll.

Zerkers dont care squat

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1 minute ago, Daboarder said:

I was referring to the Face to Face roll.

Zerkers dont care squat

Ah thats true. I misunderstood you then. That is indeed scary with berserk giving sky high crit chances and no way to defend yourself. Your going to die if those zerkers reach melee.

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lol it sounds stupid but my zerkers have crit maybe a handful of times its so irritating

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Gals make me look at CCW and AP CCWs as a downgrade on Knives (here's looking at you Prowlers).

I certainly think that's true on things like the Swiss Guard profile where the defensive advantage of Shock is just so useful, and you're not going to plan on using your CCW.

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