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Icchan

Nanoscreen, fire damage and Symbiomate

Question

A Rasail troop gets hit with fire ammo, but uses the Symbiomate to ignore the damage. Is his Nanoscreen still burnt?

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15 answers to this question

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Yes.  Nanoscreen is disabled simply for being hit by fire, regardless of whether or not you take damage.

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But Symbiomate ignores the special effects of an ammunition from the attack, not just damage.

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14 hours ago, ToadChild said:

Yes.  Nanoscreen is disabled simply for being hit by fire, regardless of whether or not you take damage.

Exactly

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21 minutes ago, Icchan said:

But Symbiomate ignores the special effects of an ammunition from the attack, not just damage.

My interpretation is that that is to cover cases where ammunition does not do damage, such as Flash, Stun, or Adhesive.  But I can see how it can be read either way.

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Symbiomate is allowing you to "pass armor roll". That means you are loosing (unfortunately :( ) nano screen because you technically have been hit but you have passed armor roll.

 

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Burnt applies if you are Hit.  Symbiomates cancel ARM/BTS rolls and ammunition effects, but do not explicitly say that they cancel Hits.  So I believe the Nanoscreen is lost.

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Quote

If its user, the trooper who the SymbioMate has been assigned to, is in the Active Symbiont Armor state and receives a successful Attack and declares the use of his SymbioMate, he will not perform an ARM/BTS or the correspondent roll, and the Damage and effects of the Special Ammunition or Attack will be ignored. However, the SymbioMate will be removed from the game table at the end of that Order. Any other successful Attacks, including their Damage and effects, received by the user during the same Order will also be ignored.

 

3 hours ago, Dasaan said:

Burnt applies if you are Hit.  Symbiomates cancel ARM/BTS rolls and ammunition effects, but do not explicitly say that they cancel Hits.  So I believe the Nanoscreen is lost.

Symbiomate also cancels Forward Observer effects, which has no damage or ARM/BTS rolls. Merely hitting with FO is enough to cause the Targeted state.

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Wiki: Nanoscreen

If the user of a Nanoscreen is affected by Fire Special Ammunition, then this piece of Equipment is rendered Burnt, regardless of the result of the ARM Roll.

affected = touched by a template

this is a different wording that under state burnt! A camo trooper can dodge the template without being burnt (thus keeping his camo), nanoscreen ist rendered useless even whith a successful dodge.

The Pokemon doesn't cancel being affected by the template...it cancels the damage and effects.

I strongly think that both the pokemon and the nanoscreen are removed.

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Hmm... I strongly suspect if that was the intention of the rule. I hate it when rules have a ton of exceptions.

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Having equipment Burnt by Fire is an effect of Fire Special Ammunition and not an effect of the Fire-Sensitive trait in the same way that being Immobilized by Hacking is an effect of a Hacking Attack - not an effect of having Heavy Armour.

SymbioMates ignore the effects of Fire Special Ammunition (among others). Thus, I see no reason why Nanoscreen would be removed by a Fire attack that is ignored.

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1 hour ago, Sergej Faehrlich said:

A camo trooper can dodge the template without being burnt (thus keeping his camo), nanoscreen ist rendered useless even whith a successful dodge.

I don't understand the logic in the second part of that sentence. Surely successfully dodging an incoming attack means you're not affected by it?

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51 minutes ago, Demus said:

I don't understand the logic in the second part of that sentence. Surely successfully dodging an incoming attack means you're not affected by it?

The argument is that to be "affected by Fire Special Ammunition" all that needs to happen is for you to have been underneath the template not to actually have been hit by the template. 

It's - to say the least - a long bow. 

You enter the Burnt state by being hit by Fire Special Ammunition (" roopers with Special Skills or pieces of Equipment with the Fire-Sensitive Trait enter this state by receiving a hit from a weapon using Fire Special Ammunition, regardless of the result of their ARM Roll"). Sergej's argument would result in the situation where a trooper with both ODD and a Nanoscreen who successfully Dodges a LFT template would have the Nanoscreen burnt off, a Burnt marker beside it and still able to use it's ODD. That's absurd. 

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I guess I made a mistake with the ODD and Camo rules (that stems from my misreading of camo)...they should work in line with nanoscreen ruling: a successful dodge would evade the attack and everythings fine.

But that doesn't change the way I read the rules in this specific situation...might be wrong of course...but my line of argumentation goes like this:

Nanoscreen: " If the user of a Nanoscreen is affected by Fire Special Ammunition, then this piece of Equipment is rendered Burnt, regardless of the result of the ARM Roll."
Burnt: " Troopers with Special Skills or pieces of Equipment with the Fire-Sensitive Trait enter this state by receiving a hit from a weapon using Fire Special Ammunition, regardless of the result of their ARM Roll. "

"being affected" is used in the context of template weapons. " all troopers or targets in base contact or inside the Area of Effect of the Template are affected by the Attack declared." So once a template touches you, you are affected and so you are hit. You can dodge that hit, but if that dadge fails, you are definitely being hit. So in that case, according to both rules above, you would place a burnt marker next to the miniature and the nanscreen would turn off (iz would be the same with camo or odd...the have a similar wording). The effects of fire special ammunition are nit needed at any point here...from both passages alone on can deduct the consequences.

So now the Pokemon comes into play. They do not cancel the attack or the ammunition used...you still got hit by fire ammunition. They make you ignore the effects of the ammunition...which are irrelevant according to the rules mentioned above.

I guess one could argue that the passages for the equipment do not go together with the fire sensitive rules. Going by the fire sensitive rule would logically need the effects of the fire ammunition type to apply the burnt state. So the Pokemon would work just fine and no burnt state. But since there are sepcific passages added to nanscreen et al. going by the fire sensitive rule would simply overrule them, while the fire-sensitive rules could still apply for equipment that does not feature such a passage...(edit) like the symbiont armour. So the pokemon prevents the symbiont armour from getting burnt.

edit: please prove me wrong in this...I am desperately looking for any weak spots in these pesky symbio stuff...so my argument might be wishful thinking

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Well, if you get hit by Fire you'll either keep both Symbiont and Nanoscreen or your trooper will go into Burnt state. You can't cherry pick Nanoscreen to be Burnt and the Symbiont to not get hit when your opponent uses a Pokemon because both equipments are Fire-sensitive. I'm fairly confident that you don't enter Burnt state when using a Pokemon becuase entering Burnt state is an effect of Fire ammo - that would negate most of the point of the Pokemon - especially in light of IJW's answer in the other active thread on the Burnt topic.

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31 minutes ago, Mahtamori said:

...both equipments are Fire-sensitive...

even though I would disagree with the notion that burnt is a game state independent of equipment, you are right...thanks for pointing to my flawed reasoning: my thinking would result in both burnt an not burnt. Still I think that the wording in this case could be more precise...after reading more closely there is a passage that could clear things up: the Pokemon rules actually do say that the hit is ignored...though they could have put that at a more prominent place...

...Any other successful Attacks, including their Damage and effects, received by the user during the same Order will also be ignored. (emphasis added)

In that context the passage...

...and the Damage and effects of the Special Ammunition or Attack will be ignored...

makes sense...would have been more easier to just say "ignores all attacks...as long as it's not a crit..."

Okidoki...one more point that adds to the "I hate these critters"-score. Thanks nethertheless!

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