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Vita Nova

More Questions About Smoke, Stealth and CC...

Question

McMurrough throws a smoke grenade onto a fireteam: Haris of 3 Morats who are all within 2" of eachother. It covers all of them.

In a new order, he then uses Stealth to enter B2B. Nobody gets AROs, even the guy he came into B2B with thanks to Stealth. McMurrough then attacks with his Templar CCW. The Morat he's attacking now gets an ARO, they choose to attack, yada yada yada. Then...

Am I correct in assuming that none of the Morats have LoF to the AROs so they can't do anything but Change Facing, Alert or scream in terror? I guess if they don't take AROs they can Warning! at the end of turn after McMurrough strikes the enemy and change their facing (but it doesn't matter because facing is essentially irrelevant when inside of a smoke grenade when no one on the table has MSV). Or are there other options that you can do when trapped in a smoke grenade with a meleeist? I played my first game of Caledonia (ever) versus my friend's Morat Aggression Force and my opponent didn't like McMurrough using Stealth to get into B2B and rip apart his fireteam so easily. But my main army is PanO, so having things like capable CC with Smoke means it's pretty much the first time ever I've gotten to use it more than once a game (and the first time ever I've used it 7 times in a row... god bless Galwegians and god bless McMurrough), and I am still learning the rules for Smoke and Extremely Impetuous and things like that.

I'm used to having like, one Impetuous guy and maybe a frenzied Knight and just winging it, but now I'm juggling like 6 of them, so...

Sidetrack: Honestly, he should have had me as all 3 Morats were Suppressive Firing on McMurrough from 6" while surrounding his own HVT to keep McMurrough from using his twin chain rifle templates, but a hail mary smoke grenade from a nearby Highlander put McMurrough in smoke, and a lucky spec fire from McMurrough put a grenade on top of all 3 of the Morats. And then McMurrough went through them one-by-one with Stealth, Martial Arts L3 and his Templar CCW killing them all... It mildly felt as if we missed something as it felt unlike Infinity.

 

Last question: I was going to ask, but I also just found the rule that when targeted with a Smoke Grenade template a unit can Dodge to get out of it, so there's that-- some amount of counterplay possible-- but now I have a new question: If someone inside of a smoke grenade is big enough to be inside a Smoke template but in B2B with someone outside of it, what happens? Are they both visible, or are they both concealed, or do they leave the Zero Visibility Zone vis a vis the one model being outside of it?

As always, thanks for reading! Being able to have things dumbed down for me helps so much and I appreciate every one of you. :)

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9 answers to this question

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1 hour ago, Vita Nova said:

Am I correct in assuming that none of the Morats have LoF to the AROs so they can't do anything but Change Facing, Alert or scream in terror?

Yes. Nearly. Alert requires Line of Fire. They can also Reset.

1 hour ago, Vita Nova said:

Or are there other options that you can do when trapped in a smoke grenade with a meleeist?

Some rare units may have other things they can do. Mostly, it's just a matter of how scared they are or lucky with the pistol.

1 hour ago, Vita Nova said:

If someone inside of a smoke grenade is big enough to be inside a Smoke template but in B2B with someone outside of it, what happens? Are they both visible, or are they both concealed, or do they leave the Zero Visibility Zone vis a vis the one model being outside of it?

As always, thanks for reading! Being able to have things dumbed down for me helps so much and I appreciate every one of you. :)

If a model is touching a template, it is affected by it. No, smoke isn't contagious in the way you describe, but if the one outside is the enemy then their troopers will still not be able to ARO your McMurderface nor will they be able to shoot into melee without MSV2+ in their own turn.

You can, however, shoot into melee if the enemy model is standing outside the smoke, but if you fail within the MOD you get for shooting into melee, you'll still hit McMurderface and Ariadna doesn't have much in the way of Sensor that can Triangulated Fire into melee, so McMurderface will have to do all the work himself.

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And that feels distinctly like Infinity to me: a werewolf has just torn apart 3 space-monkeys inside a cloud of smoke. 

CC is one of the most powerful methods of attack in the game, it's just usually difficult/inefficient to pull off. 

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Also, a fire team cannot go on Supressive Fire. 

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What would be different if McMurrough had declared he wasn't using stealth? 

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The only thing that would have changed if McMurrough had declined to use Stealth would be that the other 2 Morat would have been able to declare Change Facing as McMurrough moved within their ZOC. It wouldn't have done them any good if he had the orders to reach them before the smoke dissipated at the end of the Caledonian player's turn, but they'd have been able to declare it.

Your friend's situation would have drastically improved if the Morat Fireteam had 4 members (and thus benefitted from Sixth Sense L2).

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2 hours ago, Munin said:

The only thing that would have changed if McMurrough had declined to use Stealth would be that the other 2 Morat would have been able to declare Change Facing as McMurrough moved within their ZOC. It wouldn't have done them any good if he had the orders to reach them before the smoke dissipated at the end of the Caledonian player's turn, but they'd have been able to declare it.

Your friend's situation would have drastically improved if the Morat Fireteam had 4 members (and thus benefitted from Sixth Sense L2).

Even then it's only an issue if you allow BS attacks vs Move+CC attacks inside Smoke using SSL1 and, still, McMurderdog is probably shrugging any AROs and splatting each Vanguard in turn .

McMurrough - Templar CCW (AP+DA) vs. Morat Vanguard Infantry - Combi Rifle

Active Player

76.05% McMurrough inflicts 1 or more wounds on Morat Vanguard Infantry (Unconscious)
48.20% McMurrough inflicts 2 or more wounds on Morat Vanguard Infantry (Dead)

Failures

10.81% Neither player succeeds

Reactive Player

13.14% Morat Vanguard Infantry inflicts 1 or more wounds on McMurrough (1 W)
0.86% Morat Vanguard Infantry inflicts 2 or more wounds on McMurrough (Unconscious)
0.02% Morat Vanguard Infantry inflicts 3 or more wounds on McMurrough (Dead)

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I didn't say it was a good option, just that it was a better option.  ;) Going from B1 at 8 to B2 at 11 is pretty significant in terms of survivability. Also, your math is screwed up somehow; there's no way the Morat trooper can inflict 3 wounds on McMurrough.

So if McMurrough chooses to use MA3, he's rolling 1 die at 26 (CC23 + 3 MOD from MA) vs. the Morat's 2 dice at 11 (BS11 +3 MOD for range, -3 MOD for MA3).

That's an 82.48% chance of McMurrough succeeding, a 9.93% chance of neither player succeeding, and a 7.58% chance of the Morat succeeding, for a total 17.51% chance of surviving. Compare this to a B1 CC Attack ARO by the poor Morat, which is an 88.80% chance of McMurrough inflicting a wound and only a 7.43% chance of neither succeeding and only a 3.77% chance of the Morat inflicting a wound for a total 11.20 % chance of survival. So yeah, it's a difference of only like 6.3%, but in comparison to the already low odds, it increases your chance of survival by more than 50% over what it was.

I'll take that if given the choice.

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I had them sitting on Suppression Fire with SSL2... Derp.

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Note that if McMurrough threws the smoke so it touched all 3 Morats then all of them get to Dodge regardless of Stealth, Sixth Sense or anything else.
And, given that the Dodge is not a FtF with his smoke, it may mean at least one of those Morats end up outside of smoke when McMurder tries to live up to his name.

Sixth Sense would mean, (IIRC), they could've shoot back when the smoke went down assuming the template touched their bases, assuming nothing else was blocking LoS.

 

Basically, the Ariadnan player shouldn't throw smoke templates that touch the enemy!

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