Natsymir

Missile Launchers in Haqqislam

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Haqqislam have five missile launcher profiles to chose from. With their good range and damage, it feels like they could be useful weapons, but they're, of course, severely hampered by their Burst 1. I don't think I've ever fielded one.

Now, in other armies, this would be different; there's for example the Hac Tao with missile launcher and TO Cammo, making for a devastating ARO piece. But Haqqislam doesn't have anything like that.

The obvious use I see for missile launchers in Haqqislam are in link teams, due to the +1 Burst, and out of the five missile launcher profiles we have, three can be in links. A missile launcher would basically be the optimal ARO weapon for a link team, and I find the Janissary profile particularly appealing there due to its resilience.

But outside link teams, is there any use at all for missile launchers in Haqqislam? After all, we can get dirt cheap Daylamis with panzerfausts for similar ARO duties.

 

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Being a Sectorial player only, I'd say a solo ML doesn't make much sense, exactly for the reason you've mentioned: low Burst, coupled with average BS. Only the Janissary has above-average BS here, and that's 13 of it...

I expect both Halqa and Zhayedan to have Fireteam ability in their respective sectorials, however I find Halqa ML to be counterproductive even then: MLs have pretty long minimum range, and with Mechanized Deployment you're likely to be pretty far upfield. I hope Halqa get updated with different weapon before the Khanate sectorial gets released...

Now, Panzerfaust is close to the ML to be good enough against point targets, but it lacks one important ability the ML has: Blast Mode. With luck, this can waste several models in one shot, being even more effective against fireteams and other massed targets. Not to mention, denying Cover.

For me, personally, HRLs are an interesting alternative - a bit shorter range, but Burst 2 makes them viable. And Fire ammo can easily be as devastating as EXP. Plus, we have it on 4 models, 3 of which are particluary interesting:

  • Hafza (for Holo L1)
  • Sekban (for 360-visor and BS 13)
  • Al Fasid (for being a purpose-buildt solo combatant, with a good set of all-around weaponary)
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I used Ghulam Missile Launcher as an expendable and aggressive ARO options some time ago and he did well, but... With the cheaper and great Daylamis panzerfaust I don't use him anymore ;) It's better to fill the second group with Daylamis than to take Ghulam ML.

In a link team ML is nice, but still has it's flaws - like range. It's easy to get into it's "0" range and shoot it with better odds.

So I have to say, that I prefer HRLs in my Vanilla Haqq. And in QK also - it's great to fry someone with a Hafza hidden in a link of different guys ;)
And about that:

2 hours ago, Errhile said:

For me, personally, HRLs are an interesting alternative - a bit shorter range, but Burst 2 makes them viable. And Fire ammo can easily be as devastating as EXP. Plus, we have it on 4 models, 3 of which are particluary interesting:

  • Hafza (for Holo L1)
  • Sekban (for 360-visor and BS 13)
  • Al Fasid (for being a purpose-buildt solo combatant, with a good set of all-around weaponary)

 

I agree in most part, but why did you put the poor Muyib out of the HRL's list? Is it only because you're mostly a QK player? That's the reason that I could understand ;)
Because Muyib is great - mostly with his only 1SWC cost and also very cheap pts cost. And Dogged. And having D-Charges to blow them for some engineer or spec far away. To be honest, Muyib is my most used HRL in Haqqislam. And I highly recommend him if you have 1SWC left ;)
I also used Fassy HRL many times in a season in which I forced myself to play with Big Guys, he also was doing rather good. But he is expensive and sometimes can go down without any acheivements and then it hurts. He still has only BS 13, like Sekban, not much better than Muyib and Hafza. Funny thing - in one final battle in a tournament we we're having very poor rolls with a friend - I was trying to kill Joanna, MO LT, with HRL and used many orders and no one was hitting the target. Finally in the last order - without any hope for success - I rolled the two dices last time and got two "13" - crits - with Fire ammo and Joanna was grilled ;)

So yeah, HRLs are funny :P

 

PozdRawiam / Greetings

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Well, honestly, I love the HRL Muyib - as a part of a Muyib fireteam. He beats the Spitfire Muyib nine times out of ten when they compete for a place in my list.

But if I were to choose a HRL for a Vanilla list, I'd rather take one of the three I've mentioned.

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I used a Janissary ML in a vanilla Haqqislam list at GenCon. She did some serious work. Even B1 can be nasty when you're shooting at closely-packed fireteams.

Also, don't forget coordinated orders, where you force your opponent to make hard choices against whom they're going to go FtF.

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The Muyib with Rocket Launcher, or the Rocket Launcher Hero as he's called in my meta after a string of amazing successes, is indeed a champion. The combo of X-visor and Dogged is sweet. The X-visor means that, especially in a Muyib link, he could even go after snipers in a pinch.

But yeah, I feel a bit like KedziOr_vo, for the price of a Ghulam with missile launcher, who's likely to die anyway, you get 2 Daylamis with panzerfausts -and- a Warcor, for more than double the ARO power, although at shorter rangers. The panzerfaust daylamis are so good, in fact, that I basically never build a list without them.

I'd like to try the Janissary with Missile Launcher in vanilla, though. Like Munin attest, it feels like she could be quite obnoxious. Place a Nasmat remote behind her, connected to a doctor (or even better, a Janissary Akbar doctor), put her in some good sniping position, and hopefully people will have to spend tons of orders on bringing her down.

 

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Well, I've had great experience with my Ghulam ML.  She was the bane of my friends when we were still learning the game and she even won me an Operation: Flamestrike prize (the highlight of my story was how my Ghulam ML beat a Sin Eater in her active turn).

Of course, that also means being lucky has played a mayor role in my good experience with the ML.

I rarely use a ML nowdays.  I favor more Snipers (of whom I had a very poor opinion at first).

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Well, I play Hassassin and for what concerns my experience with them, 2 ML ghulam linked are amazing, they're excellent against everything and really effectiveness in ARO, sometimes the 3 swc cost can be a problem when making lists so often I play only one of them linked.

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I only ever use ML linked in a Ghulam Defensive team. Double missile Launchers is a nightmare for an opponent. If I have singles its usually a HRL Fasid or HRL Hafza disguised as a Ghulam FO Flashpulser or Ghulam Sniper.

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On 9/10/2017 at 9:42 AM, Errhile said:

Well, honestly, I love the HRL Muyib - as a part of a Muyib fireteam. He beats the Spitfire Muyib nine times out of ten when they compete for a place in my list.

4461166-8387112389-post-.gif

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So I've been putting together my Janissaries and I find myself working through the old scale creep issues between the the HMG and the newer, chunkier models. I've seen a few people take the arms of the HMG and put it on the ML body, giving it a nice, aggressive pose with arms that don't look too bad when taken in all at once. But then my ML becomes the one out of scale. 

So which Janissary do you find yourself using more often? 

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2 hours ago, TehMik said:

 

4461166-8387112389-post-.gif

Usually, yes. While the SWC is very reasonable, the Fireteam can still have only 5 members. And I want a Doc, and a minelayer, and, and... 

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This may not be a popular option, but... 

I never use missile launchers for ARO.

In your reactive turn your single die roll (or two dice in fireteam) will be opposed by 3 to 5 dice from your opponent, potentially shooting at a range advantage (from within 24 inches for example, or a sniper shooting from over 40 inches) and possibly making a surprise shot or other camo tricks. 

 

On the other hand, in your active turn you use it on your conditions, you can chose your target and most importantly: your one roll will be only opposed by one roll from the enemy. If you do it right its one roll of 13 or 2 rolls of 16 from you, versus your enemy rolling one die with -6 or -9 MOD. 

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6 hours ago, Darek_CTR said:

This may not be a popular option, but... 

I never use missile launchers for ARO.

In your reactive turn your single die roll (or two dice in fireteam) will be opposed by 3 to 5 dice from your opponent, potentially shooting at a range advantage (from within 24 inches for example, or a sniper shooting from over 40 inches) and possibly making a surprise shot or other camo tricks. 

 

On the other hand, in your active turn you use it on your conditions, you can chose your target and most importantly: your one roll will be only opposed by one roll from the enemy. If you do it right its one roll of 13 or 2 rolls of 16 from you, versus your enemy rolling one die with -6 or -9 MOD. 

The reason for Missile Launchers or HRL's as ARO's is that templates are placed as long as your within your BS threshold, whether you beat the opponent or not which makes them very dangerous and great counters for link teams, or tightly packed enemies.

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7 hours ago, Darek_CTR said:

This may not be a popular option, but... 

I never use missile launchers for ARO.

Ok, I'll bite - why? An ARO shot is a free action. If you have the chance to ARO with it, but don't, my thinking is you're either dodging or resetting or something else. I'm assuming you mean you don't ARO w/ a ML if the unit with the ML is the target of the active unit.

But there are many reasons to ARO w/ a ML. Shoot at link team models that aren't the link leader, for one. If the active model drew 3+ AROs, declaring a shot with the ML is another good use of it.

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12 hours ago, TehMik said:

Ok, I'll bite - why? An ARO shot is a free action. If you have the chance to ARO with it, but don't, my thinking is you're either dodging or resetting or something else.

I suppose he meant that he doesn't use MLs as ARO pieces. Maybe as opposed to hiding them to use on active turn. 

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21 hours ago, TehMik said:

Ok, I'll bite - why? An ARO shot is a free action. If you have the chance to ARO with it, but don't, my thinking is you're either dodging or resetting or something else. I'm assuming you mean you don't ARO w/ a ML if the unit with the ML is the target of the active unit.

He means that his ML units are put hiding at the end of turn instead of being left to overwatch during enemy turn.  

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So does this mean regardless of the face to face all other models are autohit? I never quite umderstood this

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12 minutes ago, Wombat85 said:

So does this mean regardless of the face to face all other models are autohit? I never quite umderstood this

Yes. Only the model shooting back can deny the shot to HIM. If the ML still gets within his to hit threshold the template drops and hits everyone around him. Thats why its a lethal ARO piece because it means free hits on adjacent figures who cannot respond with ARO due to them being in the active turn. Same philosophy applies to HRL's. Its a really weird rule that I do not entirely agree with but fully take advantage of. 

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On 13.09.2017 at 5:01 PM, theGricks said:

 

The reason for Missile Launchers or HRL's as ARO's is that templates are placed as long as your within your BS threshold, whether you beat the opponent or not which makes them very dangerous and great counters for link teams, or tightly packed enemies.

... and te players I play against almost never make that sort of mistakes any more. 

 

10 hours ago, Barrogh said:

I suppose he meant that he doesn't use MLs as ARO pieces. Maybe as opposed to hiding them to use on active turn. 

Yes, thats it. 

---

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that missile launchers or any other template weapons are bad ARO's pieces. I generally think that any Burst 1 weapon is a bad ARO piece and leaving it exposed to you opponent is usually a waste of an expensive model. 

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6 minutes ago, Darek_CTR said:

... and te players I play against almost never make that sort of mistakes any more. 

 

Yes, thats it. 

---

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that missile launchers or any other template weapons are bad ARO's pieces. I generally think that any Burst 1 weapon is a bad ARO piece and leaving it exposed to you opponent is usually a waste of an expensive model. 

Mistakes or not being made, it forces your opponent to move and maneuver around that issue. Control of your opponents turn because they have to waste orders doing multiple moves or otherwise is just as important as killing. Especially with how cheap a Ghulam ML is (17 points 1.5 SWC), she can hit much harder than her weight. Also do not forget that when a link team moves, you can choose to land that template anywhere on ANY or their paths. Meaning if they group to go through a narrow space, or unbunch from a corner in the same order, you can still hit them all. I personally find MLs the single best bang for buck ARO pieces because they are only one shot so your not losing anything extra, and if placed in a full core link they are a nightmare for ALL models. HI, LI, TAG's, it doesn't matter.

I have had HB Ghulam cores with twin ML's lock down fire lanes because even if shooting through smoke at them its a gamble. If you fail that shot due to poor luck, that unit is probably gone. So often times they waste orders cautious moving or dropping smoke and running. 

But you do you. Everyone has a tactic or strategy that works for them, and especially in Haqq where you have so many options, what works for you works. Don't change it.

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Yep, all your arguments are valid and good tactics, its just a matter of different playstyle. 

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So, yesterday my ML Ghulam demolished the mighty Jotum XD

I wanted to tell you this amazing news XD

 

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4 hours ago, Manfred_VR said:

So, yesterday my ML Ghulam demolished the mighty Jotum XD

I wanted to tell you this amazing news XD

 

wow! how did it happen? how had you deployed your ghulam?

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Just now, Natsymir said:

wow! how did it happen? how had you deployed your ghulam?

I deployed my Ghulam link in a building so that my two missiles could , almost always, react together and cover each other, my Fiday and Al-Dja were deployed near the Aquila and the Nisse, was risky but in the end, has been a winning strategy 'cause prevented these two models from being activated without being engaged and with my Daylami near the enemy auxilia my 2 killers were safe from intuitive attacks. Thanks to this formation, the Jotum, that was farther away from my 2 missiles, was forced to act against them, during my first ARO phase a crit caused 2 wounds, after that, in my active turn I finished it.

 

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