Panzer

300 - Borac - for its9 thoughts?

21 posts in this topic

logo_501.png Nomads──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png8  logo_56.pngKRIZA BORAC HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54)

logo_16.pngINTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)

logo_30.pngMORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)

logo_10.pngZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)

logo_13.pngJAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)

logo_13.pngJAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)

logo_1.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

logo_23.pngMODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png7  

logo_32.pngTSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31)

logo_4.pngINTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42)

logo_10.pngZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)

logo_13.pngJAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)

logo_13.pngJAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)logo_14.png

DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)

logo_34.pngZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

logo_34.pngZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

logo_23.pngMODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

 

5.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

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It's all jumbled for me so here's a repost:

logo_501.png Nomads
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png8  
logo_56.pngKRIZA BORAC HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54)
logo_16.pngINTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
logo_30.pngMORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
logo_10.pngZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
logo_13.pngJAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
logo_13.pngJAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
logo_1.pngALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
logo_23.pngMODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png7  
logo_32.pngTSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31)
logo_4.pngINTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42)
logo_10.pngZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
logo_13.pngJAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
logo_13.pngJAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
logo_14.pngDAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_34.pngZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_34.pngZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_23.pngMODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

Personally I don't like going over 14 orders. I think it has what it needs thou. I would try to find 2 points for a KHD on a Zero to help protect the Interventor.

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14 orders eh? Why so?

 

thanks for the fix too! Not Sure why it came out gimped

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37 minutes ago, Panzer said:

14 orders eh? Why so?

I usually have a second combat group that can do a couple functions and a full sized CG instead. 15 is just where my guys start feeling too cluttered and weak to me.

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5 hours ago, Loricus said:

I usually have a second combat group that can do a couple functions and a full sized CG instead. 15 is just where my guys start feeling too cluttered and weak to me.

You just never faced NCA on 16 orders with Squalo......... that hurts if you don't have the bodies to withstand the attack.

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34 minutes ago, Kwisatz Haderach said:

You just never faced NCA on 16 orders with Squalo......... that hurts if you don't have the bodies to withstand the attack.

Yes I have. That's the exact type of list I find condensed forces to be more resilient against.

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2 hours ago, Loricus said:

Yes I have. That's the exact type of list I find condensed forces to be more resilient against.

Yup. Easier to find room to scatter them around your DZ so that they're not hitting multiple models at a time. Less models also probably means higher average Phys which starts to make a difference when its B1 vs B1. 

Lists like that are another reason that I'm leery of massed S4 REMs. It's fun, but you need the DZ to support it or it's just painful. 

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One thing ive noticed that might be mean, use your zero to forward observe priority enemies (tags and such) if you can get them in targeted state then send the borac in he will be on BS 16 before range mods, BS 19 if you find a sweet spot on 5 dice vs opponents -6 atleast for cover and full auto.

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One thing ive noticed that might be mean, use your zero to forward observe priority enemies (tags and such) if you can get them in targeted state then send the borac in he will be on BS 16 before range mods, BS 19 if you find a sweet spot on 5 dice vs opponents -6 atleast for cover and full auto.

Honestly unless you get it 'for free'* it's almost certainly overkill.

* Ie you needed to Target them anyway to complete Telemetry, you used Satlock as a 'discover' or you baited out a long range ARO with an FO and opted to FO in response because it gave you better odds of survival.

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I fielded a Kriza Broac against NCA with a Squalo this weekend.

Unfortunately I did not get to use the Kriza Borac much, because I had 2nd turn. But the Kriza Borac sucked up 7 orders from the Squalo before going down and even inflicted a wound back :D

 

I like it.

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3 minutes ago, Bakga said:

But the Kriza Borac sucked up 7 orders from the Squalo before going down and even inflicted a wound back :D

Before anyone gets too excited:

56.78% Squalos inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kriza Boracs, Special Crisis Unit (1 W)
22.53% Squalos inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kriza Boracs, Special Crisis Unit (Unconscious)
5.18% Squalos inflicts 3 or more wounds on Kriza Boracs, Special Crisis Unit (Dead)

Failures

35.66% Neither player succeeds

Reactive Player

7.56% Kriza Boracs, Special Crisis Unit inflicts 1 or more wounds on Squalos (2 STR)

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Not sure how this calculation comes together. But the stats of the Kriza Borac allow for decent dodging and shooting back on range bands, where the Squalos HMG is not ideal.

Not saying it's a TAG killer. But it sold its life quite expensive ;)

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50 minutes ago, Bakga said:

Not sure how this calculation comes together. But the stats of the Kriza Borac allow for decent dodging and shooting back on range bands, where the Squalos HMG is not ideal.

Not saying it's a TAG killer. But it sold its life quite expensive ;)

15 BS ends up only 1 BS below the Kriza, with 4 B and AP an active Squalos still comes out way ahead.

Keep in mind you lose the Full Auto 2 advantage if you dodge or otherwise don't shoot.

 

If you need to kill a TAG by shooting it cover-to-cover the Kriza is probably the best option in Nomads. You generally want to find a less direct way to do it in fewer orders though. Kriza S goes a long way to making flank shots difficult (if my other large S HI experience applies).

He is ideal for smiting 9/10 HI in cover though. Just a bit inefficient against full TAGs.

 

In ARO it's not enough to get past TAG BS. But many lists only have 1 long range F2F focused guy, like a Nisse HMG, if you can remove/avoid that I could see a Kriza HMG pinning the board down a little too well for comfort. That's probably why we haven't seen the ML profile.

 

Kriza is an absolute monster but a PanO TAG can chew him up as long as it can see him... statistically of course.

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ok, finished the tournament yesterday, finished 3rd (out of 9 players).

I dunno, but if you dont have first turn - leaving Kriza and Intruder standing for ARO usually results in dead Kriza and Intruder. You have better ARO options in nomads for sure. Kriza and Intruder (HMG) are attack pieces - use them for Attack.

Used Kriza against Caledonia. I got first turn..... Kriza started working on turn 2 , but there was almost no resistance, as pair of krakots just eliminated the whole combat group on their own (mission was Aquisition) (full link of Scot Guards, 112, Volonteer, and 2 SAS).

After that Kriza chopped down 2 remaining Wulvers and that was the game.

I also tried him before against Caledonia.. and he just wreck faces of Cameronians, Mucmurrough and full link team of wulvers with Willy. Mission was Armory.

 

But back to the topic - does in need DUO - i think not. Same as Taskmasters - they just dont need it. Its a very rare used opion.

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11 minutes ago, Kwisatz Haderach said:

But back to the topic - does in need DUO - i think not. Same as Taskmasters - they just dont need it. Its a very rare used opion.

I use Geckos, they are good for objectives. I kind of like the look of Taskmasters, but I don't think Kriza has a good reason for me unless it gets more profiles.

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1 hour ago, Loricus said:

15 BS ends up only 1 BS below the Kriza, with 4 B and AP an active Squalos still comes out way ahead.

Keep in mind you lose the Full Auto 2 advantage if you dodge or otherwise don't shoot.

 

If you need to kill a TAG by shooting it cover-to-cover the Kriza is probably the best option in Nomads. You generally want to find a less direct way to do it in fewer orders though. Kriza S goes a long way to making flank shots difficult (if my other large S HI experience applies).

He is ideal for smiting 9/10 HI in cover though. Just a bit inefficient against full TAGs.

 

In ARO it's not enough to get past TAG BS. But many lists only have 1 long range F2F focused guy, like a Nisse HMG, if you can remove/avoid that I could see a Kriza HMG pinning the board down a little too well for comfort. That's probably why we haven't seen the ML profile.

 

Kriza is an absolute monster but a PanO TAG can chew him up as long as it can see him... statistically of course.

I think you're missing my point. 

I did not use it against a PanO TAG. The TAG came to me in its first turn. And in that you usually do not have the full ARO potential of the Kriza yet. It's meant to be put in Suppression fire, and that was not possible at that point.

Considering my other options though, the Kriza can be a nasty blocker and order expensive to remove for the enemy

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7 hours ago, Loricus said:

@inane.imp FO is not an ARO attack. :P

But I was discussing active turn tactics?

Ie when you activate an FO and get fired at by a long-range ARO, my understanding was it made you more likely to win the FTF and therefore survive. For instance Cateran vs Pi-Well at 23".

Π-Well - Forward Observer vs. Highlander Caterans - T2 Sniper Rifle

Active Player: 49.30% Π-Well targets Highlander Caterans for 1 Turn

Failures: 37.67% Neither player succeeds

Reactive Player: 13.03% Highlander Caterans inflicts 1 or more wounds on Π-Well (Unconscious 2)

vs

Π-Well - Combi Rifle vs. Highlander Caterans - T2 Sniper Rifle

Active Player: 46.98% Π-Well inflicts 1 or more wounds on Highlander Caterans (Unconscious)

Failures: 43.43% Neither player succeeds

Reactive Player: 9.59% Highlander Caterans inflicts 1 or more wounds on Π-Well (Unconscious 2)

 

However, it turns out that I was wrong: in those circumstances the +1B is > an effective +5MOD to hit. So you should just shoot them in the face. Which is interesting, but a little disappointing: I liked that tactic :(

And I second Loricus:

anti-tag.png

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@Bakga Yes, I'm just saying that it did exceptional that match and people shouldn't expect that kind of results.

@inane.imp I misread.

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3 hours ago, Loricus said:

@Bakga Yes, I'm just saying that it did exceptional that match and people shouldn't expect that kind of results.

Yeah. I've had more normal results out of not-suppressing Kriza in ARO. Mine got shot off the table by a buffed Q-Drone. I'd expect to drain one or two orders out of an opponent on average with a Kriza left out to die if I'm going second.

I think one way to think about it is that you leave the Kriza out as bait, supported by something else, to force them to come get it since it's such a big active-turn threat. That way even if it (likely) dies, you force them to overextend with hopefully 1-2 pieces and maybe lose them. Jag Panzerfaust is still definitely my favorite sacrificial ARO piece.

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I've recently fielded some fairly similar lists. Three main pieces were a Kriza HMG, an Intruder HMG, and a Taskmaster Red Fury in group 2 to make max use of Free Agent. Not a fan of the Tsyklon myself, as it is fairly order intensive to use, expensive and suffers when it actually faces targets with VisMods. In that points group you had that's where the Intruder went.

In any case, all three of those units can solo an enemy army with the right positioning.

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