prophetofDoom

ITS 9 game balance and enjoyment?

47 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, IJW Wartrader said:

It's part of the ITS guidelines that you list the missions before the event.

Agreed, and its a good practice in Infinity where missions matter so much. It just sucks if you're all on board the Ariadna train and someone's like "In this mission you will be literally unable to score all the points."

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I am a bit disappointed to see that Scarface is gone for some factions. The people who bought the model will be pissed off right now. Also, being deprived of options to score points makes me feel disadvantaged as an Ariadna player. More to the point of my original post, what about smaller games? It is hard to fit a TAG into a 200 pts list. 

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1 hour ago, Savnock said:

Much agreed that TAG mercs should be available for scenarios that deny full OP to sectorials without TAGs. They could even include that directly in those scenarios/missions: that a sectorial with no TAGs can purchase a mercenary TAG for use in that specific mission. That would prevent use of merc TAGs potentially ending up in all other missions, if that's a thing they are worried about (which would be silly as well).

I'll also point out that the Soldiers of Fortune extra also helps mitigate this issue. Of course it is -also- a giant Pandora's Box of terribly-powerful combos (cough Pan O Yuan Yuans cough).

 

Soldier of Fortune extra would be a big help with this if the TO allows it, but I've been hearing quite a bit of "I'll never run an event with that" already.

40 minutes ago, prophetofDoom said:

I am a bit disappointed to see that Scarface is gone for some factions. The people who bought the model will be pissed off right now. Also, being deprived of options to score points makes me feel disadvantaged as an Ariadna player. More to the point of my original post, what about smaller games? It is hard to fit a TAG into a 200 pts list. 

If your concern is about lower point lists, that will be just as much of an issue for both sides, so I'm not clear on why that would be a balance concern at all.

As for people who bought Scarface just for ITS season 8, they have no room to be upset. I'm one of those people, and I bought it knowing full well that it might not be legal in a year. It was specifically published as part of the rules for the ITS season, not an overall AVA change for permanent use.

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3 hours ago, macfergusson said:

S

3 hours ago, macfergusson said:

 

If your concern is about lower point lists, that will be just as much of an issue for both sides, so I'm not clear on why that would be a balance concern at all.

 

.That is not a concern of balance, but of enjoyment. I find it not so enjoyable to have to cram things into my list. the other question which arises is: Does the mission make sense below 300 points?

 

 

15 hours ago, Robock said:

Investigate Alien Artifact, you only score OP for investigating it. But when doing so you get a random roll that does change the game. Which works almost like Panoplies, you only need to open it to score OP but in doing so there is a chance you gain a useful bonus.

We played it in our club for... not sure a month theme, or a week theme, or a casual tournament. But across several games, it sometime change the game, and sometime doesn't. I really enjoyed that mission !

Permanent eclipse has a lasting effect in changing the game table LoF. A neutral Repeater give a huge boost in hacker vs HI/REM. SS2 does nothing. The last effect also depends a lot on circumstances : Removing a deployable and/or revealing Camo is nice, removing status or supportware is neutral; but removing an enemy placed permanent eclipse is hilarious.

The only problem i have with panoplies are exploits like using a g:synch which was costed appropriately for not having a weapon suddenly gaining a weapon. But models who already have a weapon rarely gets a game changing upgrade from it. I once got a MSR on my Zero FO, while a Zero MSR is nice, not that great when in the middle line of the table. ARM bonus rarely matters. CC related stuff depends on which trooper gets it and usually you are still better shooting on your way in.

Thank you very much for your feedback. I will factor it in as I am working on version 4 atm. I don't want to give you an indepth answer here, as it would be off topic. Suffice to say that in this mission I could not resist to put in a random table to add flavour, even though I felt it is conceptually wrong. Glad you liked it. 

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7 hours ago, macfergusson said:

Soldier of Fortune extra would be a big help with this if the TO allows it, but I've been hearing quite a bit of "I'll never run an event with that" already.

I've not only heard but thought that. But after a little while it wears off: It will be fun for a lark. It would be annoying to see regularly, sure but for the occasional tourney once or twice a year, seems like a lot of fun.

The merc units have such distinct personality in their rules for the most part and require special playstyles, from McMurrough to Yojimbo.

Even the Yuan Yuans are interesting: Impetuous AD troops take skill to use to their full advantage (although just using those guys for attrition is obvious and easy). One thing is for sure though, if you're playing in a tourney with Soldiers of Fortune you will definitely want an MSV sniper/ARO unit if you can get one (so much smoke on mercs), and you'll need your own cheap attrition units to intercept anthropoid-guided-missiles like Yojimbo etc.

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How is usarf supposed to destroy a pac? bike spam if they can access the panoplies?

Also limited insertion feels really unbalanced specially for ariadna sectorials, and that's considering 300 p matches, 400 are unplayable.

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Bikes/Foxtrots/Hardcases/Devil Dogs and Panoplies, the Unknown Ranger's T2 CCW.

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8 hours ago, MATRAKA14 said:

Also limited insertion feels really unbalanced specially for ariadna sectorials, and that's considering 300 p matches, 400 are unplayable.

Funny, that's how most other armies feel playing against Ariadna in button-pushing missions. Try playing Military Orders at 200 and you'll see my point.

Every Ariadna army can play Limited Insertion at 300 just fine. Hell, Caledonia has trouble even fitting in there at 300 if you want to take a heavy Haris and link. MRRF's points come out weird so it's hard to make them fall right at 300 rather than over or under, but I bet someone who plays them could do it better than I can. Here are Limited Insertion lists for all three factions, none of which I would be particularly pleased to see across the table.

USARF:

Spoiler

logo_304.png USAriadna Ranger Force
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.pngorden_irregular.pngorden_impetuosa.png2
logo_16.pngUNKNOWN RANGER (Specialist Operative) Molotok / Heavy Pistol, T2 CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 47)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN Lieutenant Rifle, 2 Light Flamethrowers / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 22)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN (Forward Observer) Rifle, 2 Light Flamethrowers / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 24)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN Missile Launcher, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 29)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN AP HMG / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)
logo_15.pngBLACKJACK T2 Sniper, Submachine Gun, Chest Mines / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
logo_12.pngDEVIL DOG Heavy Shotgun, Smoke Grenades + 1 K-9 Antipode / AP CCW. (0 | 39)
 sep.giflogo_12.pngK-9 ANTIPODE AP CCW. (7)
logo_12.pngDEVIL DOG Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + 1 K-9 Antipode / AP Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 30)
 sep.giflogo_12.pngK-9 ANTIPODE AP CCW. (7)
logo_6.png112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)

5.5 SWC | 296 Points

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logo_304.png USAriadna Ranger Force
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png10  
logo_16.pngUNKNOWN RANGER (Chain of Command) Rifle / Heavy Pistol, T2 CCW, Knife. (0 | 41)
logo_15.pngBLACKJACK AP HMG, Chest Mines, D.E.P. / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 36)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Sniper / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Sniper / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER Lieutenant Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
logo_5.pngVAN ZANT (Executive Order) AP Rifle / Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 39)
logo_13.pngAIRBORNE RANGER (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun / Pistol, AP CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_13.pngAIRBORNE RANGER Molotok / Pistol, AP CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 32)

6 SWC | 297 Points

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Caledonians

Spoiler

logo_302.png Caledonian Highlander Army
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png10  
logo_13.pngUXÍA McNEILL (Covert Action) (CH: Limited Camouflage, Superior Infiltration, Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 27)
logo_6.pngS.A.S. (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 24)
logo_6.pngS.A.S. (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 24)
logo_11.png112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)
logo_7.pngWULVER Mk12, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 37)
logo_7.pngWULVER T2 Rifle, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 33)
logo_7.pngWULVER Heavy Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 32)
logo_5.pngCALEDONIAN MORMAER (Fireteam: Haris) AP HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2.5 | 43)
logo_5.pngCALEDONIAN MORMAER Lieutenant AP HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
logo_4.pngHIGHLANDER GREY T2 Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Smoke Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 25)

4.5 SWC | 299 Points

Open in Infinity Army

And MRRF

Spoiler

logo_303.png Force de Réponse Rapide Merovingienne
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.pngorden_irregular.pngorden_impetuosa.png1
logo_12.pngEQUIPE MIRAGE-5 . (2 | 69)
 sep.giflogo_12.pngMARGOT AP Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (37)
 sep.giflogo_12_2.pngDUROC 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CC Weapon. (32)
logo_15.pngANACONDA Spitfire + Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / CCW. (2 | 62)
 sep.giflogo_15.pngOPERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (- | 0)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT Engineer Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
logo_7.pngCHASSEUR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 25)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 25)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Paramedic (Medikit) Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Lieutenant Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)

6 SWC | 300 Points

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Satisfied?

As for 400 point Limited Insertion, at that point the TO is being crazy anyways so they might as well throw Soldiers of Fortune in there too (in which case you can do it again).

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9 hours ago, IJW Wartrader said:

Bikes/Foxtrots/Hardcases/Devil Dogs and Panoplies, the Unknown Ranger's T2 CCW.

the T2 ccw seems to lack the anti-material atribute.

 

@Savnock Yes its posible to make one list with each sectorial, but try to make a list with mrrf without taking the anaconda and mirage team together. Usarf has somewhat a couple more options but overall all 3 are extremely limited if you intend to achieve 300p 6 cap.

The point is that if you try to make a list for a specific ITS mission and compare it with competitive lists of other factions you will see the gap between them.

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21 minutes ago, MATRAKA14 said:

the T2 ccw seems to lack the anti-material atribute.

T2 as an ammo type should be anti-materiel in general. Not sure why the CCW specifically is missing the trait, that seems like a bug/typo/omission.

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1 hour ago, macfergusson said:

T2 as an ammo type should be anti-materiel in general. Not sure why the CCW specifically is missing the trait, that seems like a bug/typo/omission.

Yeah, always go by the ammo type, not the weapon itself. While USAriadna might have some trouble with this mission, the game plan is decent (though kind of obvious and can be disrupted) - smoke to cover the UKR's advance, then have him get in there and destroy the AC2 with his shield. If the UKR gets cacked, you're probably relying on Maverick FOs nabbing D-charges and zipping in there. 

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45 minutes ago, Hecaton said:

Yeah, always go by the ammo type, not the weapon itself. While USAriadna might have some trouble with this mission, the game plan is decent (though kind of obvious and can be disrupted) - smoke to cover the UKR's advance, then have him get in there and destroy the AC2 with his shield. If the UKR gets cacked, you're probably relying on Maverick FOs nabbing D-charges and zipping in there. 

I could not find ammo type "antimateriel" for some reason. I guess that is because it is a trait, not a type. Infinity is so complicated. 

I don't think I would want to rely on my specialist troopers to first go to the panoply to get a d-charge and then destroy the AC2 with it. It is also important to note that you need 2 at least 2 orders to destroy it with a d-charge because the cc version of d-charge use is not antimateriel. 

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Everything with EXP ammo can be used on scenery structures, and it's been confirmed that you can't use the place-then-detonate option for D-Charges as that's not a CC Attack.

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On 9/27/2017 at 10:15 PM, MATRAKA14 said:

 

@Savnock Yes its posible to make one list with each sectorial, but try to make a list with mrrf without taking the anaconda and mirage team together. Usarf has somewhat a couple more options but overall all 3 are extremely limited if you intend to achieve 300p 6 cap.

The point is that if you try to make a list for a specific ITS mission and compare it with competitive lists of other factions you will see the gap between them.


Every faction is limited in Limited Insertion. That's why they call it Limited Insertion. (snare).

More seriously: Ariadna has nothing to complain about in Limited Insertion. I mean, everyone could complain about not being Military Orders in the 10-dude format, but other than that the playing field is pretty level.

Funny thing is the first list I made for MRRF, and the one that I've seen played in Limited Insertion, did not include Mirage-5. With Knauf in there now, MRRF feels pretty viable in Limited Insertion. Your dudes mostly are single-wound, but you can start a whole lot of them halfway up the board or have a serious firebase. You do want to have either the Anaconda or Mirage-5, but that's like most lists pretty much having to take Heavy Infantry in this format. Everyone's choices are squeezed, but Ariadna still has plenty.

As for USARF: The possibilities are wide open there. Between Van Zandt, the Unknown Ranger, Blackjacks, and Devil Dogs they have a lot of nasty characters that weigh in at decent points. Combine that with two differerent elite links that are both sporting ARM 3, and then some great infiltrators, and you have a lot of adaptability.

Point is: Every army could whine about something in one specific format. Ariadna has a mild advantage for button-pushing formats, factions with great HI links (including Caledonia) or good TAGs have a mild advantage in Limited Insertion. Nature of the game, and part of playing something other than bland same-y missions and lists all the time.

MRRF lists with just the Anaconda, if you're interested. First one starts with basically everything halfway up the board and toting a DEP. Second has Knauf and Chasseurs, and also has the ability to Infiltrate a 3-man link deep or leave them closer to your DZ and make it 5-man. I like the second one better.

Spoiler

logo_303.png Force de Réponse Rapide Merovingienne
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png10  
logo_15.pngANACONDA Spitfire + Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / CCW. (2 | 62)
 sep.giflogo_15.pngOPERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (- | 0)
logo_13.pngBRIGADIER BRUANT (Inferior Infiltration) Molotok, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 31)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT Engineer Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT Lieutenant HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 29)
logo_4.pngZOUAVE (Sapper) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
logo_4.pngZOUAVE Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, D.E.P. / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
logo_16.pngWARDRIVER Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

logo_303.png MRRF Moblots Infil Link
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png10  
logo_15.pngANACONDA Spitfire + Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / CCW. (2 | 62)
 sep.giflogo_15.pngOPERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (- | 0)
logo_22.pngKNAUF MULTI Sniper / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT Lieutenant HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
logo_7.pngCHASSEUR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
logo_7.pngCHASSEUR Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
logo_13.pngBRIGADIER BRUANT Molotok, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

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Anaconda defensive link-based, lots of visors, if you'd rather play with a strong anvil-hammer or if you're facing a lot of camo:

Spoiler

logo_303.png Force de Réponse Rapide Merovingienne
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png10  
logo_15.pngANACONDA Spitfire + Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / CCW. (2 | 62)
 sep.giflogo_15.pngOPERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (- | 0)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT Engineer Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
logo_2.pngPARA-COMMANDO HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 31)
logo_22.pngKNAUF MULTI Sniper / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
logo_4.pngZOUAVE Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, D.E.P. / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 25)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Paramedic (Medikit) Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Lieutenant Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD (Forward Observer) Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD (Forward Observer) Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

6 SWC | 297 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

Mirage-5 lists, if you'd rather do that. First one's only 284 points, which is definitely lame, but has a great AD attack wing. The second one has an infiltrating HI fireteam with EXP weapons, which seems fun for a lark. I'm hoping they drop Le Muet into the sectorial too eventually. I mean, the name's French, right...? [EDIT: added a second team, because I'm using this post as a holding-place for my MRRF Limited Insertion lists.]

Spoiler

logo_303.png Force de Réponse Rapide Merovingienne
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.pngorden_irregular.pngorden_impetuosa.png1
logo_12.pngEQUIPE MIRAGE-5 . (2 | 69)
 sep.giflogo_12.pngMARGOT AP Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (37)
 sep.giflogo_12_2.pngDUROC 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CC Weapon. (32)
logo_2.pngPARA-COMMANDO HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 31)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_22.pngKNAUF MULTI Sniper / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Paramedic (Medikit) Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD Lieutenant Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD (Forward Observer) Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
logo_5.pngBRISCARD (Forward Observer) Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

6 SWC | 284 Points

Open in Infinity Army

logo_303.png Force de Réponse Rapide Merovingienne
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.pngorden_irregular.pngorden_impetuosa.png1
logo_12.pngEQUIPE MIRAGE-5 . (2 | 69)
 sep.giflogo_12.pngMARGOT AP Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (37)
 sep.giflogo_12_2.pngDUROC 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CC Weapon. (32)
logo_22.pngKNAUF MULTI Sniper / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
logo_13.pngBRIGADIER BRUANT Lieutenant Molotok, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_6.pngMOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_4.pngZOUAVE Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, D.E.P. / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)

5 SWC | 296 Points

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3 hours ago, prophetofDoom said:

I could not find ammo type "antimateriel" for some reason. I guess that is because it is a trait, not a type. Infinity is so complicated. 

I don't think I would want to rely on my specialist troopers to first go to the panoply to get a d-charge and then destroy the AC2 with it. It is also important to note that you need 2 at least 2 orders to destroy it with a d-charge because the cc version of d-charge use is not antimateriel. 

Forget about whether weapons are noted as anti-materiel or not - just remember that DA, EXP, T2, and K1 are all anti-materiel, regardless of whether it's a CC weapon or BS weapon. 

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4 hours ago, prophetofDoom said:

I don't think I would want to rely on my specialist troopers to first go to the panoply to get a d-charge and then destroy the AC2 with it. 

Then don't. Fortify your position, defend your AC2, ignore the opponent AC2, and get more stuff out of the panoplies to come out ahead on points. Scenario won.

 

Sure, that's over-simplified, but there are different approaches to take to achieve the single goal of "win the game."

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I see complaints about Ariadna... But fighting a 14 Camo Token force in limited insertion when you only have 10 orders to deal with all that as well as push buttons is a nightmare. Ariadna is great in Limited Insertion. The challenge om your opponent to discover, plus the freedom of movement that comes from Camo, are both huge assets. 

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1 hour ago, Grampyseer said:

 All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Peace?

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1 hour ago, Grampyseer said:

 All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Kilts!  Pre-Roman Scots (Picts) wore pants.  That all changed after Rome came, built a wall, and showed off their man-skirts.

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On 9/29/2017 at 6:03 PM, Grampyseer said:

 All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

It was luxuries like air-conditioing that brought down the roman empire, with the windows shut how could they hear the barbarians at the gate.

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I think regarding the TAG missions, +1 on filtering Scarface & the Anaconda where flavourful is a good idea for these missions if CB wants to push more armoured play.

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