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DarkPhoenix

Motorcycle vault over?

Question

Movement says:

And Motorcycle says:

  • Troopers mounted on a Motorcycle cannot go Prone.
  • Troopers mounted on a Motorcycle cannot Climb.
  • Troopers mounted on a Motorcycle cannot Jump vertically or diagonally upward, they can only Jump horizontally (as in Jump Example 3) and vertically or diagonally downward.

Does this mean motorbike can wheelee onto things up to its hight? Or space-hydraulics to hop over it like Knight Rider?

 

Also, does climbing through windows (glassless) generally considered as Vault action?

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Well, given how the rules are written, i'd say yes, a motorcycle can vault obstacles.

It is not the first time real-life logic and Infinity rules do not fit together. I've learned to bear with it.

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Hm I would argue for the other way round,
"... without declaring Jump or Climb. "
implies that for crossing obstacles as high as the S value those skill would have to be declared if there was no vault skill, which is used instead and is basically "small jump/climb for free during movement"
And both skills are permitted for bikes.

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Windows are typically Small Access Points unless otherwise specified. Motorcycles can't fit through those (nor other Small Access Points such as doors).

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37 minutes ago, Mahtamori said:

Windows are typically Small Access Points unless otherwise specified. Motorcycles can't fit through those (nor other Small Access Points such as doors).

But I want to jump through the window on the motorbike like an action movie hero! D:

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1 hour ago, Ursun said:

Hm I would argue for the other way round,
"... without declaring Jump or Climb. "
implies that for crossing obstacles as high as the S value those skill would have to be declared if there was no vault skill, which is used instead and is basically "small jump/climb for free during movement"
And both skills are permitted for bikes.

If you argued like that, you would be wrong.

Because the rules say that no Jump or Climb is necessary, the model isn't performing the prohibited skill.  Just like Sixth Sense doesn't change which direction the model is facing.

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I'd argue that the biggest problem with making this work conceptually is that many of the bikes take after Games Workshop's approach to motorcycles - Harley Davidsson designs. If they were all using sports motorcycles (from JSA crotch-rockets to Kum dirt bikes), then climbing a chest-high wall in no time (anime-style, remember) is as conceptually valid as an infantry climbing a head-high wall in the same amount of non-time.

P.s. Motorcycles are not blocked from Jumping, they're just blocked from jumping upwards. WTB: Motorcycle unit with Climbing Plus and Super-Jump. We've seen the fake Domaru-on-a-Bike, right? Well, I want a Ninja-on-a-Bike!

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6 minutes ago, Mahtamori said:

P.s. Motorcycles are not blocked from Jumping, they're just blocked from jumping upwards. WTB: Motorcycle unit with Climbing Plus and Super-Jump. We've seen the fake Domaru-on-a-Bike, right? Well, I want a Ninja-on-a-Bike!

PanO spaceport police on segways ftw!

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6 minutes ago, Artjom said:

PanO spaceport police on segways ftw!

Riding up the walls!

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Just now, DarkPhoenix said:

Riding up the walls!

New Equipment type: Adhesive tires

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On 10/5/2017 at 8:44 PM, Mahtamori said:

I'd argue that the biggest problem with making this work conceptually is that many of the bikes take after Games Workshop's approach to motorcycles - Harley Davidsson designs. If they were all using sports motorcycles (from JSA crotch-rockets to Kum dirt bikes), then climbing a chest-high wall in no time (anime-style, remember) is as conceptually valid as an infantry climbing a head-high wall in the same amount of non-time.

P.s. Motorcycles are not blocked from Jumping, they're just blocked from jumping upwards. WTB: Motorcycle unit with Climbing Plus and Super-Jump. We've seen the fake Domaru-on-a-Bike, right? Well, I want a Ninja-on-a-Bike!

Uberfalls + Panoloply. You've got an 18.5% chance of getting a C+ bike. 

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19 minutes ago, inane.imp said:

Uberfalls + Panoloply. You've got an 18.5% chance of getting a C+ bike. 

Shikami and Panoply, not quite as big chance of only like 12%, but C+ and SJ :) 

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8 minutes ago, Mahtamori said:

Shikami and Panoply, not quite as big chance of only like 12%, but C+ and SJ :) 

5% / order. You only roll once for a Duo whereas for a G:Sync every model rolls. 

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2 minutes ago, inane.imp said:

5% / order. You only roll once for a Duo whereas for a G:Sync every model rolls. 

Shikami are specialists, they roll twice for loot, so it's 0.95*0.95 chance of not getting a bike.

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1 minute ago, Mahtamori said:

Shikami are specialists, they roll twice for loot, so it's 0.95*0.95 chance of not getting a bike.

That's still <10% and it's scenario specific: it's not a general property of Logistics.

Looking into this more closely, all Panoplies require passing the WIP roll* first, reducing the odds in both cases: for Shikami it's ~6% (assuming 2 rolls, it's marginally lower if only 1) and Uberfalls is ~10%.  

* I think there was one mission that had removed this requirement in ITS8.

Maths: Shikami's odds are 1-(0.35+.65*0.95*0.95) , the Uberfalls are 1-(0.4+0.6*0.95)*(0.5+0.5*0.95)^3. 

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31 minutes ago, inane.imp said:

That's still <10% and it's scenario specific: it's not a general property of Logistics.

Looking into this more closely, all Panoplies require passing the WIP roll* first, reducing the odds in both cases: for Shikami it's ~6% (assuming 2 rolls, it's marginally lower if only 1) and Uberfalls is ~10%.  

* I think there was one mission that had removed this requirement in ITS8.

Maths: Shikami's odds are 1-(0.35+.65*0.95*0.95) , the Uberfalls are 1-(0.4+0.6*0.95)*(0.5+0.5*0.95)^3. 

While I don't know why we're even having this argument, that's two out of three Panoply missions that gives Shikami two chances per successful WIP, failing to get what you want on the chart means you can't try again and Uberfalls don't have Super-Jump. I still think Shikami is the better of the two to get a bike, the cooler of the two to get a bike, and the more Ninja of the two to get a bike.

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On 10/5/2017 at 0:11 AM, DarkPhoenix said:

Movement says:

And Motorcycle says:

  • Troopers mounted on a Motorcycle cannot go Prone.
  • Troopers mounted on a Motorcycle cannot Climb.
  • Troopers mounted on a Motorcycle cannot Jump vertically or diagonally upward, they can only Jump horizontally (as in Jump Example 3) and vertically or diagonally downward.

Does this mean motorbike can wheelee onto things up to its hight? Or space-hydraulics to hop over it like Knight Rider?

Yes.

Infinity motorcycles do Parkour!

 

 

On 10/5/2017 at 0:11 AM, DarkPhoenix said:

Also, does climbing through windows (glassless) generally considered as Vault action?

I'd say yes.  It's like going through any other door/wall opening, if your base fits you can go through.  But as @Mahtamori says, most windows aren't big enough for a bike to fit through.

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Does anything except limitation of Silhouette sizes stop Bikes from using ladders? Couldn't find anything.

Using ladders is a Move not a Climb, in theory a Bike could scale a TAG sized ladder - which is probably quite rare to have on a table. But still, pretty weird.

MOVE: STAIRS AND LADDERS
Those pieces of scenery representing stairs and ladders allow to move vertical or diagonal surfaces using the Move Skill at no cost, without declaring Jump or Climb.
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5 minutes ago, Teslarod said:

Does anything except limitation of Silhouette sizes stop Bikes from using ladders? Couldn't find anything.

Using ladders is a Move not a Climb, in theory a Bike could scale a TAG sized ladder - which is probably quite rare to have on a table. But still, pretty weird.

MOVE: STAIRS AND LADDERS
Those pieces of scenery representing stairs and ladders allow to move vertical or diagonal surfaces using the Move Skill at no cost, without declaring Jump or Climb.

No, I couldn't remember the thread, but bikes RAW are perfectly capable of using ladders, as long as the ladder is wide enough. 

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