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bertmac

TO camo rambos

12 posts in this topic

So recently back into the game.

Wondering what people take to avoid TO HI like a hacTao or Swiss guard wandering around and murdering everything?

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Protect key pieces hiding them or having many AROs cover them, go hunting with suitable MSVs troops, use sensor to create various zone where it's impossible to recamo, burn them with fire and (swiss much easier than hac tao) kill it in cc. Beware that they cost a lot of points, so are meant to be difficult to take down and to do damage.

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I get that they should be hard to take down. It just seems I'm hoping for a lucky roll rather than there being a good chance unless my opponent misplays their model.

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17 hours ago, bertmac said:

Wondering what people take to avoid TO HI like a hacTao or Swiss guard wandering around and murdering everything?

You can't, these kind of unit is nearly unstopabble in their active turn. The only thing you can do is slow them down by stacking bodies/mines/hacking and/or make it so they have to spend a lot of orders to get one kill (by hiding every one). Now, when it's your turn, they're suddenly way more vulnerable, and you have a LOT of options to bring them down: hacking, MSV2 troopers (even better with smoke), CC (again better with smoke), etc...

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Daofei hmg or spitfire are even more fearsome as they start closer

Enviado desde mi SM-J510FN mediante Tapatalk

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Don't forget that just because it has TO Camo does NOT mean that it also infiltrates.  Those are two separate rules!

So a Hac Tao or Swiss Miss starts in the backfield and has to walk all the way across the table.  If it starts walking, it goes from Hidden Deployment to a Marker on the table and gives you some warning.

The big threat for a TO rambo is the Cutter.  It's much faster than a Hac Tao, and has a bigger gun.

Granted, you do still need to Discover one and then kill it, but that's what they make Sensor for.  Auto-discovery.  You are taking a Yaokong Weibing REM in your lists, aren't you?  Zhanying or Crane Agents aren't bad, but the Weibing is only 16 points and is a FO specialist.

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Hacking is a good solution against TO Hi and Tags. You can slow them down quite a bit with well placed repeaters and in your active turn use spotlight and guide in indirect fire to their position.

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13 hours ago, Greysturm said:

Hacking is a good solution against TO Hi and Tags. You can slow them down quite a bit with well placed repeaters and in your active turn use spotlight and guide in indirect fire to their position.

Actually, TO makes them very very slippery against hacking. Don't forget that TO Camo grants them Stealth (making repeaters largely useless), and in their active turn they can re-enter marker state at the end of the turn by spending an order to do so. You can't hack a marker, so first you have to get something in line of sight to Discover them (with one chance at a -6 mod, -9 if they are in cover) or get a Sensor unit to within 8" and pass a Wip roll, or drop a sniffer and do the same. All of that costs orders and has a significant chance to fail the roll at the end of it. Camo and TO are great counters to hacking, really.

But to answer the topic, I think your best bet is hiding from them on their turn, or trying to hold them in place with a really strong ARO threat like an ODD sniper outside of the T.O. model's +3 weapon range. If you want to try to take them out, do it on your turn and target them with Direct Template weapons if possible, especially flame throwers. Shooting at them without at least an MSV1 is pretty pointless, so don't waste your time. If you have to get past them then use Smoke or Cautious Move to avoid them.

And as always, remember that pursuing the mission objective is always more important than killing your opponent's models.

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Not just The Cutter... The Sphinx is a pretty big TO tag threat. Not only is it TO, it's coming at you from some odd angle over a roof.

Your own TO model is often the best counter. A ninja can move up to a lot of these models, cautious move to get in the back arc and then beat them to death. If you're really lucky and you're looking at a TO assault hacker, you can also creep up and killer hack them... which will also work against TO killer hackers, but is obviously pretty risky.

For a fun solution nobody has come up with in this thread yet, engage the tag in combat, then use a crane multi rifle to triangulated fire AP shots into the combat at up to 48" range with no risk of hitting your own model. Triangulated fire will also work if you can outrange the TO - so against multi rifle opponents or maybe a spitfire sphinx in -6 range bands. 

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On 8.10.2017 at 8:07 PM, bertmac said:

So recently back into the game.

Wondering what people take to avoid TO HI like a hacTao or Swiss guard wandering around and murdering everything?

Template Weapons, especially Flame Throwers, and dedicated melee units make short work of Swiss Guards. If that doesn't work hunt them with MSV2+ troopers. They are indeed strong but not overpowered IMHO.

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18 hours ago, YueFei23 said:

Not just The Cutter... The Sphinx is a pretty big TO tag threat. Not only is it TO, it's coming at you from some odd angle over a roof.

True enough, I haven't had the 'pleasure' of facing a Sphinx yet.  I expect Cypherkk to throw one at me soon, however.  I'd still have to rate the Cutter as a bigger threat than the Sphinx, however, since the Cutter has a MultiHMG and the Sphinx only has a Spitfire.

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10 hours ago, Section 9 said:

True enough, I haven't had the 'pleasure' of facing a Sphinx yet.  I expect Cypherkk to throw one at me soon, however.  I'd still have to rate the Cutter as a bigger threat than the Sphinx, however, since the Cutter has a MultiHMG and the Sphinx only has a Spitfire.

I'm sure they both shine in their own way. The Cutter is certainly a devastating artillery piece with BS 15, TO camo and that huge gun... but it lacks any kind of close defense other than setting up in suppressive fire. If suppressive fire isn't set or gets broken somehow, it's reacting up close with a single ARO shot in a poor range band for the gun, so hitting on 9s against an opponent coming up to shoot it in the face with a higher burst weapon. If a cutter is on the table, everything else will be hiding... and if it moves up table to attack it starts to run into the bad range bands of it's own gun. On an open table it sure is going to shut things down in the reactive turn and make an opponent sweat trying to get rid of it.... but if they null deploy and brought some smoke to attack with, they'll be ok.

The sphinx has better flexibility - two heavy flamethrowers to drop on things, better range bands as it moves up to engage the enemy and the ability to easily move over or on top of intervening terrain. It has better close quarter defence with the heavy flamers and a weaker long range ARO that is possible to outrange. In the active turn a damage 15 spitfire is going to hurt a lot of things and it feels like a unit you can take up close to the enemy. Once you get it into suppressive fire, it's missing 1 point of damage and AP/Shock compared to the heavy multi, so if you can get it overlooking the enemy DZ and then do that, it's going to be hard to shift. Oh yeah... and it's great at smashing the objective in looting and pillaging.

In a straight fight (which I'll admit never happens), I guess whichever tag had the active turn first against a revealed enemy would win. A cutter has high enough BS to shoot the sphinx down at range, whereas the sphinx has high enough burst to close with the cutter whilst doing some damage, then choose between torching it, shooting it to death inside 16" or punching it in the face.

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