BlackCadian

Ariadna playable elite-ish?

21 posts in this topic

Howdy friends!

So admittedly I know very little about Ariadna, having played them only twice. From what I hear some variation of (camo) spam is their „thing“. 

What I am wondering however, is if Ariadna (vanilla or USAriadna) is also (competitively) playable with around 11 to 13 orders. Because I like the look, fluff and feel of the army. But I dislike order spam list. Cool interesting elite-ish units is where its at for me. Any chance for that in Ariadna?

Thanks!

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You can build fully viable lists for Limited Insertion. So low order counts are playable. Is it "competitive"? Not really. Ariadna strength is it's minimalism that grants us the ability to run around in circles around the other factions without sacrificing too much. You can run a 10-12 order full camo list and have a decent win rate but you're losing much more than you gain. 13-20 orders is the normal operation range for Ariadna so a 13 Order list should do fine (I'd still prefer 15+ Orders though but that's just me).

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Don't be so negative! There are no problems with playing Ariadna as Limited Insertion, I've won tournaments with single combat group lists, even when my opponents were not playing single groups. I like to mix it up, as the play styles are a bit different, and it helps to keep your tactics flexible.

You'll be relying more on Kazak units most likely to do it to best effect. Something like this could work:

logo_301.png Ariadna
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png8  orden_irregular.png2  orden_impetuosa.png2
logo_8.pngVETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47)
logo_3.pngSPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
logo_51.pngBLACKJACK T2 Sniper, Submachine Gun, Chest Mines / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
logo_12.pngSCOUT (Forward Observer) Ojotnik, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
logo_12.pngSCOUT (Forward Observer) Ojotnik, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
logo_37.pngUXÍA McNEILL (Covert Action) (CH: Limited Camouflage, Superior Infiltration, Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 27)
logo_8.pngVETERAN KAZAK Paramedic (MediKit) AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
logo_14.pngIRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
logo_28.pngCAMERONIAN 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CCW. (0 | 23)
logo_50.pngCOLONEL VORONIN Lieutenant Rifle / Assault Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 21)

4.5 SWC | 299 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

Voronin's extra order is handy, but if you dislike the obvious LT a Scout or Tankhunter makes for a nice hidden LT option you could work in there instead.

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Is it playable? Absolutely. It totally works, and myself and many others have ran low order count lists and done very well with them in events. 
Is it playing to the faction's strengths? Arguably, no. We have more cheap options than most and fewer expensive ones, so you're largely playing with one hand behind your back. While I can craft a decent enough elite list out of the faction and run it successfully, I would say it doesn't really hold a candle to what my normal list can accomplish in the same circumstances. 

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My favorite way to play them is 10 order vanilla limited insertion lists. You can have great shooters, guys coming in the enemy's back field and clog up the midfield, and have almost all of it under camo. You can still sneak in plenty of specialists as well, for the specialist heavy missions. You have great LT options that can still pack a punch, and while they don't have a ton of 2 wound units to choose from, you'll be sapping the enemy's orders as they try to discover you or try to bait out your units. You can play silly things like having 1 visible unit, 13 camo tokens and an AD unit, and your opponent doesn't know where to start. It's not something I would recommend to someone who isn't comfortable playing defensively, as you're trying to force your opponent to make hard decisions (do I engage the Vet Kazak in suppression or do I spend a lot of orders to go around it into that other camo token that could be a Chaussar or mine? What's under those other 3 camo tokens? Is that the Spetsnaz or his ambush camo? Oh shit, it's an autocannon tank hunter!). It is a lot of fun to play though, and I've won almost every game using it.

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3 hours ago, Lazarus0909 said:

Is it playable? Absolutely. It totally works, and myself and many others have ran low order count lists and done very well with them in events. 
Is it playing to the faction's strengths? Arguably, no. We have more cheap options than most and fewer expensive ones, so you're largely playing with one hand behind your back. While I can craft a decent enough elite list out of the faction and run it successfully, I would say it doesn't really hold a candle to what my normal list can accomplish in the same circumstances. 

This. It can certainly be competitive, but you're discarding a big factional strength: many useful and cheap profiles.

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12 hours ago, BlackCadian said:

What I am wondering however, is if Ariadna (vanilla or USAriadna) is also (competitively) playable with around 11 to 13 orders.

Forget about usarf, it can work but it's extremely limited in limited insertion.

Vanilla ariadna works really well with limited insertion. The 13 orders list can work but not exactly optimal, playing with 15+ orders is not exactly spam because even if you have a lot of cheap units they feel extremely useful and most of them are optimized profiles.

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Ruskies play well as an elite army rocking vets spetz and Tank hunters.

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9 hours ago, Punkow said:

Ps. How do I tag people?

You were doing it correct with the "@" key. The forum system apparently didn't register it.

@Punkow

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 think Ariadna in LI is do-able, but it is (in my opinion) playing hard mode. The main issues are the poor survivability and lack of expensive specialists. I have played a few tournaments this way and my opponents gun fighters generally have high arm and multiple wounds. Most of ours (with the exception of the vet kazak) do not and rely on camo etc for survivability. Also, in joint or spec ops, you really struggle to fill your points and take diverse specialists, since most are in the 15-20 point range

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Thank you for the many interesting and helpful comments! I also read PoRs blog entry, good stuff.

I guess I'll simply have to give the faction a try. I just don't want to be overwhelmed by too many orders running into time constraints which already happens now at times.

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On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 5:39 PM, MATRAKA14 said:

Forget about usarf, it can work but it's extremely limited in limited insertion.

Vanilla ariadna works really well with limited insertion. The 13 orders list can work but not exactly optimal, playing with 15+ orders is not exactly spam because even if you have a lot of cheap units they feel extremely useful and most of them are optimized profiles.

I play USARF in limited insertion and do fine. 5 man Minuteman link is very powerful and you have flexibility for speed or hitting power with the rest. No tag option is only draw back this season with the tag focus

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On 31/10/2017 at 3:29 PM, Maloc said:

I play USARF in limited insertion and do fine. 5 man Minuteman link is very powerful and you have flexibility for speed or hitting power with the rest. No tag option is only draw back this season with the tag focus

I disagree you are really limited considering the different its missions and the list are really limited, also minutemen are easy to kill.

In a battle even someone with a spoon can do fine but that doesnt mean its fair or balanced.

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15 hours ago, MATRAKA14 said:

I disagree you are really limited considering the different its missions and the list are really limited, also minutemen are easy to kill.

In a battle even someone with a spoon can do fine but that doesnt mean its fair or balanced.

You can disagree all you want but I my experience playing USARF in limited insertion is the opposite. The 5 man link can cause massive damage with the weapons they have and you have other tools at your disposal. Ariadna is easy to kill across the board but USARF actually has better survivability with shock immunity and Arm 3.  I have never felt like I was at a disadvantage other then not having a tag for tag specific missions.

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6 hours ago, Maloc said:

You can disagree all you want but I my experience playing USARF in limited insertion is the opposite. The 5 man link can cause massive damage with the weapons they have and you have other tools at your disposal. Ariadna is easy to kill across the board but USARF actually has better survivability with shock immunity and Arm 3.  I have never felt like I was at a disadvantage other then not having a tag for tag specific missions.

What does your list look like?

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On 1.11.2017 at 9:37 PM, MATRAKA14 said:

I disagree you are really limited considering the different its missions and the list are really limited, also minutemen are easy to kill.

In a battle even someone with a spoon can do fine but that doesnt mean its fair or balanced.

That's just wrong. :-) USAriadna is not perfect but still a viable choice for Limited Insertion. And every time I see a Minutemen fireteam on the field they get their job done, although I admittedly prefer the Marauder link myself.

Two decent lists cobbled together in three minutes I'd pick any time for Limited Insertion:

logo_304.png USAriadna Ranger Force
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png10  
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN Lieutenant AP HMG / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 34)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN (Marksmanship L1, X-Visor) AP Rifle, 2 Light Flamethrowers / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 29)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 24)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN Missile Launcher, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 29)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN (Forward Observer) Rifle, 2 Light Flamethrowers / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23)
logo_16.pngUNKNOWN RANGER (Chain of Command) Rifle / Heavy Pistol, T2 CCW, Knife. (0 | 41)
logo_5.pngVAN ZANT (Executive Order) AP Rifle / Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 39)
logo_15.pngBLACKJACK AP HMG, Chest Mines, D.E.P. / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 36)
logo_3.pngFOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)

6 SWC | 299 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

logo_304.png USAriadna Ranger Force
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.pngorden_irregular.pngorden_impetuosa.png1
logo_11.pngMARAUDER Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER Molotok / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
logo_11.pngMARAUDER Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
logo_5.pngVAN ZANT (Executive Order) AP Rifle / Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 39)
logo_12.pngDEVIL DOG Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + 1 K-9 Antipode / AP Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 30)
 sep.giflogo_12.pngK-9 ANTIPODE AP CCW. (7)
logo_16.pngUNKNOWN RANGER (Chain of Command) Rifle / Heavy Pistol, T2 CCW, Knife. (0 | 41)
logo_15.pngBLACKJACK AP HMG, Chest Mines, D.E.P. / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 36)
logo_2.pngMINUTEMAN Lieutenant AP HMG / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 34)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

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The problem with USAriadna force in Limited Instertion isn't that it isn't playable, but that your choice of list is very limited. Basically, you'll probably end with Maraudem/Minuteman link, an Unknown Ranger, Blackjack and some other stuff. Nothing wrong with that, but all your list choices would be a mutation of this. It is definitely playable (although not stellar) and you might even win a tournament with this, but it has two big flaws.

1) It is predictable. Anytime I would encounter USARF on Limited Insertion, I know what would come on the table and would prepare on that.

2) You're neglecting plenty of unique options USARF have, because they're too cheep for LI - Grunt fireteam, plenty of cheap infiltrators, bikes and such - just because they're too cheap for LI.

Generic Ariadnian army is completely other issue, with expensive Kazak units you could build something that Human Sphere would tremble before.

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4 hours ago, Thandar said:

The problem with USAriadna force in Limited Instertion isn't that it isn't playable, but that your choice of list is very limited. Basically, you'll probably end with Maraudem/Minuteman link, an Unknown Ranger, Blackjack and some other stuff. Nothing wrong with that, but all your list choices would be a mutation of this. It is definitely playable (although not stellar) and you might even win a tournament with this, but it has two big flaws.

1) It is predictable. Anytime I would encounter USARF on Limited Insertion, I know what would come on the table and would prepare on that.

2) You're neglecting plenty of unique options USARF have, because they're too cheep for LI - Grunt fireteam, plenty of cheap infiltrators, bikes and such - just because they're too cheap for LI.

Generic Ariadnian army is completely other issue, with expensive Kazak units you could build something that Human Sphere would tremble before.

Yup this is very true. I do mix it up with 2 devil dog teams, some blackjacks, and occasional mavericks. Limited insertion requires an average cost of 30 pts per model to fill the list. USARF has limited choices but still can generate some different looks depending on what you take. It does rule out some of the options like desperados or hardcases.

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USARF has more problems, if you need specialists in 2 or more parts of the table you will start to see the restrictions, additionally it struggles with missions like looting and sabotage your only option for d-charges is the dozer, and the unknown ranger has to walk all the board (if the CCT2 weapon is finally anti material) and don't get me started with highly classified and trying to get a doctor a hacker and a engineer in a single list.

If you try to make lists for missions you will see how usarf has 3 or 4 main lists with small variations at best. that's considering that you are spending all the 300 points and 6 cap. If you try to do the same with vanilla then you will realise how it has better options for anything meanwhile having a lot of camo to protect itself, and even more firepower and board control. Aditionally access to a lot of d-charges and premium specialists like the veteran kazak with medikit o hell even the moblot enginer can work properly in some misions.

There are other factions with extremely powerful and competitive lists that can easily wipe usarf in limited insertion. In the brigth side at least usarf has a chance and some lists, mrrf has just one list.

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At least this is easier to achieve now we have our link teams and Blackjacks released. 

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