BloodRose

Kriza analysis

37 posts in this topic

The Kriza Borac is the second Nomad size 5 Heavy Infantry to be released, joining the Kriza as a not-quite-TAG monster. Both are s and arm 5 and both are impressive, but here they diverge. The SWAST is a powerful and aggressive assault piece that wants to push up and sit mid-board, daring your opponent to come at it and risk the boom-bots, a dtw or a DA ccw to the face were as the Kriza is more of a back camper, preferring to meet the foe with a (literal) wall of lead and hose them into oblivion with the magic that is the bucket of bullets. Whereas the SWAST is more of a frontline pusher crossed with a barbarian the Kriza is the parties gunslinger.

 

The Kriza and the SWAST have similar stats, with the only exception being the +1 point of cc the SWAST gets over the Kriza, which makes sense when you consider that the SWAST is an aggressive pusher although oddly the Kriza does not get +1 bs over the SWAST. The real divergence comes when you reach the special rules – the Kriza exchanges Martial Arts and Kinematika for V:Courage and Multiterrain, loses Free Agent and gains Full Auto l2.

  Losing Martial Arts and downgrading Kinematika to the less useful Multiterrain both show that the Kriza is less about getting up close and more about shooting, but Full Auto confirms this. With Full Auto l2 the Kriza becomes a literal bullet hose, spraying shots downrange and slaughtering the enemy before they ever get close.

Oddly, despite it being a shooting unit, the Kriza does not get a Heavy Missile/Rocket launcher or any other long range heavy weapons baring the HMG.

So, on to the loadouts. Firstly two things: 1, each loadout comes with a Heavy Pistol which is almost never going to be used bar as a close combat weapon (and why is your gunslinger in melee?) and 2, they also come with a close combat weapon instead of a knife.

 

 

This is the first and most basic loadout of the Kriza, and also the cheapest at 50 points/0 swc. The Multirifle is a good and versatile gun for most units but on the Kriza it feels lacklustre. Whilst it feels like a good primary weapon on other HI models and elite infantry such as Moiras (I cannot believe I just called Moiras elite) on something the size of a Kriza it just seems too small, especially as there is no other backup weapon on the profile, and no specialist option either. Additionally Full Auto l2 feels wasted on the Multirifle, its just not that impressive. For 4 points/2 swc more you can get a HMG which benefits far more.

Overall this is a profile to overlook and forget about, although if you are pushed for points it does make a cheap pusher. Really it needs to be a specialist or gain some more bang for it to be worth the 50 points it costs though.

 

 

Speak of the devil, here he is. The HMG is by far the best profile for the Kriza(in this commanders eyes anyway) and only costs 4 points more than the Multirifle loadout. Interestingly it is the only one with use for the pistol as well as the lack of a backup weapon means it needs something to cover that 0-8” band. This profile is not a pusher profile, and if you really want to push then wait until later in the game, or save an order to place it on suppression. Ideally you should keep this loadout back and use that nice range band plus its ability to coat a target in a wall of lead to pick off any enemy aro pieces or deal with cocky link teams, characters and poorly placed models, only pushing when the easy to find targets are gone and you already have some up-board presence.

By far the best profile the only real disadvantage is the swc cost for the HMG being .5 higher than normal, although that said it is easily worth it.

 

 

The MK12 is the iconic loadout of the Kriza and currently the only one available. It is also the worst of the three, though not because of its equipment. This variant carries a exchanges a point of burst for closer range firepower and versatility in the form of a MK12 and a SMG, making it a great pusher, especially when combined with its 360 visor and in all honesty if it where not for the cost then I would happily class this as a go-too profile but as it is 63 points is just far too much to ask for a HI, even one as capable as the Kriza. At this point the model is entering TAG land as the Iguana is only 8 points more and far more capable. In all honesty I really want to call this a good profile, its loadout is great and it is the only variant to include a backup weapon but the price is just too high. If you do include it then it makes a great ‘turret’ piece to run up mid-board and stick on suppressive, and the AP and Shock rounds in the SMG can be really useful.

This variant would really benefit from a points drop to 54-55 points and a specialist profile to really turn it into an aggressive pusher/’operator’ piece (and maybe Total Reaction – ott I know but I really want it!). As a side note the Lieutenant option for this loadout oddly costs a point more.

 

Overview and comparison

 

The Kriza is a good addition to the Nomad force, but it still feels incomplete, as though it were lacking something just to bring it fully to bloom. The SWAST still feels like a slightly better option at the moment, mainly due to it being a lot more versatile. Personally I feel that the SWAST needs some specialist profiles or Specialist Operative across the board to really bring in that feel of it being an ‘operator’, as well as a back up weapon of some sort or a dtw. At the moment all the SWAST profiles baring one have (including Koalas) at least 4 ranged weapons whilst the Kriza only has two despite it being a ‘gunslinger’ model. Maye Total Reaction could be a good inclusion for it (okay, I admit I really want total reaction on my Kriza….) or something similar to help it in the reactive turn.

All in all the Kriza Borac is nearly there but it just needs a little effort and love from CB to complete it.

So, what are your thoughts?

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I don't know if I would bother with the nesting spoilers, it would probably be fine to just have it in paragraphs.

 

The HMG is obviously the main profile but I think there is some potential with the others. 360 Visor is very powerful on a unit that is mainly strong if it can fire back. The MULTI might be mostly used as a Duo, but someone may find a use for it.

I might use the MULTI as a Lt. in Tunguska. It doesn't soak up your SWC or as many points so you can feel better playing it safe without wasting too many resources.

 

If you want specialist just use a Gecko. Ya don't get both :P

 

I doubt we'll see any improvements to the Kriza, it's already a very powerful unit.

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Some Interesting thoughts, this post reminds me of a Matryoshka doll

Kriza is more of a brute force instrument, Vanilla nomads in my experience have always had troubles with solid attack pieces before swast and kriza(and buffed geckos). Best they had was intruder and brigadas the first of which is super strong but infamously fragile for its cost (It seems everyone's intruder goes down to random crits) and the Brigada which is kinda bog standard for an attack piece and doesnt play much to vanillas strengths. I think the issue with giving borac specialist is its roll is back line, and would become very order starved being a rambo piece and an active specialist. 

The Value I place in Borac over Swast is purely a gun platform, I bring 2 zeros, 1 moran for my front line most fights so I have little need to swasts forward board control, what I do need him for is firepower to compliment the intruder. If the problem enemy piece cannot be fought with the intruder (say its a swiss guard or other strong MSV reaction piece) the Borac can win out the fight through sheer weight of dice, or white noise.

" The HMG is by far the best profile for the SWAST (in this commanders eyes anyway) and only costs 4 points more than the Multirifle loadout. " I assume you are talking about the Borac here, as the HMG is the most lacklustre of the SWAST loadouts to me (red fury, boarding shotgun and HRL all offer more value in Swasts roll or in a duo). On the borac it is the best profile due to playing to models strengths, Burst is King in infinity to an extent due to crits. What the Borac trades off with the Swasts close quarter dominance it gains in weight of fire/support fire, you mention HRL (I think its getting one, was on the art anyway) as a good option but im not sure id take it, as if im taking a high burst machine im wanting to get the most out of it. the Heavy pistol being burst 3 in 0-8 at damage 14 with shock makes him basically have a stronger combi tier weapon up close thanks to full auto.

To me the MK12 360 option is great for 2 situations duo and LT, having your second Borac prevent you being flanked is a nice utility, and generally a nice insurance on your LT, which in Tunguska is a nice alternative choice to what will likely be the most common interventor LT. Though I dont rate it much in vanilla like you due to its high cost and feel its basically a Tunguska sectorial profile. Multi is kinda a budget option, and for if you run into alot of enemies where different ammo types is useful, Borac duos will likely use hmg+multi or hmg+360 Lt

Its also worth considering that some units just dont have as much strength in vanilla as others due to competing models or their strengths being linked (Riot grrls) Borac may shine brighter in Tunguska for people if it turns more into a specialist faction with only it and the szalamander for heavy duty fighting. 

for rating

vanilla taskmasters 9/10 unit- A great toolbox, with CQ punch, However its best profiles have slightly lower damage values, free agent is nice but rarely used. Great for bullying LI and MI, may struggle against some elite HI due to low damage and shorter range. There is pretty much always a reason to run one and fits into any list.

vanilla Borac 8.5/10 - Best raw firepower nomads can bring sub szalamander, on active turn its a beast basically gaining mimetism even against visors. However lacks toolkit and is more one note than the taskmaster. Take it if you need Dakka, but hide it when not active (reverse sin eater)

 

 

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7 hours ago, BloodRose said:

Oddly, despite it being a shooting unit, the Kriza does not get a Heavy Missile/Rocket launcher or any other long range heavy weapons baring the HMG.

I think it's because it's in conflict with the fluff about the Full Auto rule. Supposedly you get the burst and the negative modifier because you shoot at enemies, holding in the trigger and firing in fully automatic mode, suppressing the enemy that tries to retaliate.

Missile Launchers and Heavy Rocket Launchers are not weapons that are capable of sustaining a rate of fire, in a way that justifies granting the rule. 

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7 hours ago, Zewrath said:

I think it's because it's in conflict with the fluff about the Full Auto rule. Supposedly you get the burst and the negative modifier because you shoot at enemies, holding in the trigger and firing in fully automatic mode, suppressing the enemy that tries to retaliate.

Missile Launchers and Heavy Rocket Launchers are not weapons that are capable of sustaining a rate of fire, in a way that justifies granting the rule. 

While i agree in theory, the dossier spoiled had a ML. I hope they get one because that would be sweet, even if that profile lost full auto....

Also can't agree more with @Mothman. Kirza is a fire support monster, but lacks tools to fill other roles, and can be very vulnerable during reactive.

Swast is a tool box, being decent but not amazing at fire support. The hmg is imo the most lack luster swast, it lacks tools like a direct template or koalas, and isn't any better at fire support then a brigada.

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Oddly I think the HMG is the worst in both of them, but if I had to take one I'd rather take a Kriza HMG than a SWAST HMG. The Kriza at least gets more mileage out of its big gun, as if you compare it to an Intruder or Moira you're still stacking modifiers while using a platform that can take more shots than the other two. Meanwhile, taking an HMG on a SWAST means no Koalas, so moving up the board becomes a bit more dangerous.

On the other hand, comparing the Red Fury profile with the Mk12 profile I think is a more fair one. Both are burst 4 weapons with the same range band, and both want to move up close. I like to use the Kriza to free up SWC for stuff like remotes and hackers and especially zero minelayers, but I can see the SWAST filling the same role, I just don't get to use a sin eater.

I don't think either of these guys should get a specialist profile, as it would make them either too expensive or too ubiquitous and I don't think that's good for the game. Not sure about which ratings I'd give them, but I do agree that the SWAST edges out just a little bit on the Kriza.

Both models look boss, though. I'm still thinking about a list using the two of them.

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I wonder if the Kriza will get a Missile Launcher

There is one in the Dossier. Maybe a B2 Missile Launcher with -3 to hit back was considered too powerful?

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2 hours ago, Solar said:

There is one in the Dossier. Maybe a B2 Missile Launcher with -3 to hit back was considered too powerful?

I can imagine.

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Interesting read.
I myself tend to have a hard time figuring out what is a good model and what is not. 
The Kriza is an odd model and I tend to distrust expensive models value.
I however am only human and I like the big flashy HI or Tags as much as the next guy and will bend over backwards to try and see if they work. The trick is that when evaluating a profile it can be hard to tell if it is under/over performing because of luck, my own bad choices, or the actual model.   

It is definitely an assault model. It wants to Rambo, so lets look at it next to other HMG Rambo's.

So side by side to the MB has you paying 12 more points, this is another order so the benefit must be good. +1 burst, +1 armor, and a -3 penalty to enemys face to face rolls that a visor wont stop. I would say yes it is better then the MB unless you are order starved.

Intruder is a harder matchup because they behave pretty differently. Camo, smoke tricks, and 12 points cheaper vs Fullauto, 4-4 move, and two wounds.
I think you will get more money out of the Intruder but I could see running the Kriza with the Intruder.

Last comparison for me is the Gecko
Tag weaknesses make it hard to love the Gecko here and the Kriza outguns it pretty hard. On the other hand you save 1.5 SWC, get a specialist, a DTW and an extra wound.
I don't know here. I think your meta and map might determine this one. However I think I favor the Kriza just because it is going to be soo much better at winning FtF rolls. 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Andre said:

Interesting read.
I myself tend to have a hard time figuring out what is a good model and what is not. 
The Kriza is an odd model and I tend to distrust expensive models value.

*snip*


I don't know here. I think your meta and map might determine this one. However I think I favor the Kriza just because it is going to be soo much better at winning FtF rolls. 
 

I think your last paragraph nicely answers your first, adding the mission as well. 

If you haven't seen it before a local forumite has an odds calculator for infinity, which i use a lot to see how lucky,  or not, i was.

http://inf-dice.ghostlords.com/n3/

Krizas, intruders, geckos, pretty much everything are great, when they fit the list and mission. Very few things in infinity are bad.

The intruder can be more powerful under ideal circumstances, but he's more vulnerable to crits and counters, and he takes more orders to create ideal circumstances because he needs smoke, and is slower. He's also externally dependant on smoke sources which can also die.

The Kirza is independent, and arguably more efficient. But he trades away raw power, and protections afforded by marker state. Hes harder to counter, but his ideal circumstances are not as good as the intruders normal rolls against zeroed out opponents. 

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Here's the thing when we talk Intruder vs Kriza: Why not both?

I've found out that the Kriza is the premier partner for White Noise, as it makes all those pesky MSV models in the game suddenly start sweating from THEM getting a nice little -9 mod. And meanwhile, the Intruder can mop up stuff the Kriza can't.

Sure, they're both expensive, but I can build lists with 14 orders around these two guys pretty easily.

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10 minutes ago, DaRedOne said:

Here's the thing when we talk Intruder vs Kriza: Why not both?

I've found out that the Kriza is the premier partner for White Noise, as it makes all those pesky MSV models in the game suddenly start sweating from THEM getting a nice little -9 mod. And meanwhile, the Intruder can mop up stuff the Kriza can't.

Sure, they're both expensive, but I can build lists with 14 orders around these two guys pretty easily.

logo_501.png Nomads
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png10  orden_impetuosa.png1
logo_4.pngINTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42)
logo_56.pngKRIZA BORAC HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54)
logo_16.pngINTERVENTOR Hacker (Killer Device Plus UPGRADE: Lightning) Boarding Shotgun, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
logo_16.pngINTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
logo_30.pngMORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
logo_10.pngZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
logo_18.pngREAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
logo_10.pngZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_33.pngLUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
logo_48.pngKRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png1  orden_irregular.png2  orden_impetuosa.png2
logo_14.pngDAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_12.pngMORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
logo_12.pngMORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
logo_34.pngZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_34.pngZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

This is sort of list I run for both of them, they shoot while other dudes do the mission

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I think the KB and Intruder pair very naturally together.  While their end goal is the same (shoot the things) they're both going about it in very different ways.  

I think context is important here btw:

  • The KB seems to have been designed with Data Tracker very specifically in mind, by the way.  It's a primary gunfighting piece that can contest a variety of rangebands, has good active and reactive turn survivability, has 4-4 MOV, and doesn't rely on a marker state.  
  • The KB's various profiles will gain more value once we see Tunguska.  The MULTI Rifle and Mk12/SMG profiles have less appeal, because there's naturally a lot of other competition for those rangebands.  In this thread alone, we've seen Swast, TAGs, etc. all mentioned as bringing other choices to that 0-24 role.  Tunguska may not have that, and thus having AVA2+ for KB may be very meaningful for Tunguska.

I think the KB and Intruder pair very naturally together.  While their end goal is the same (shoot the things) they're both going about it in very different ways.  

I think context is important here btw:

  • The KB seems to have been designed with Data Tracker very specifically in mind, by the way.  It's a primary gunfighting piece that can contest a variety of rangebands, has good active and reactive turn survivability, has 4-4 MOV, and doesn't rely on a marker state.  
  • The KB's various profiles will gain more value once we see Tunguska.  The MULTI Rifle and Mk12/SMG profiles have less appeal, because there's naturally a lot of other competition for those rangebands.  In this thread alone, we've seen Swast, TAGs, etc. all mentioned as bringing other choices to that 0-24 role.  Tunguska may not have that, and thus having AVA2+ for KB may be very meaningful for Tunguska.

Lastly... I'm pretty sure we didn't get the missile launcher profile because CB decided that making a Nomad unit that outperforms the Yan Huo so outrageously wasn't really fair.  Burst 2 missile on an unlinked unit, let alone one that's ARM5, multiple Wounds and imposes that nasty -3, would have been a significant challenge to balance.  ML KB would be a unit that's at least on par with the Swiss Guard or Hac Tao missile in terms of active turn performance, and is arguably better, for ~20 points less.  

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1 hour ago, DaRedOne said:

Here's the thing when we talk Intruder vs Kriza: Why not both?

I've found out that the Kriza is the premier partner for White Noise, as it makes all those pesky MSV models in the game suddenly start sweating from THEM getting a nice little -9 mod. And meanwhile, the Intruder can mop up stuff the Kriza can't.

Sure, they're both expensive, but I can build lists with 14 orders around these two guys pretty easily.

Yep, they are. I am on a path making my best Nomad roster whatsoever right now. 

Here it is. I've tried smth similar, but without tsyklon and smth else but with a SWAST red fury.

5999_logo_small.png Nomads - Best Roster 0.2 (300/300 | 6/6)

Group #1 | 10 Models | regular_logo_small.png 10 irregular_logo_small.png 0 impetuous_logo_small.png

5018_logo_small.png Interventor Boarding Shotgun | Hacking Device Plus, Boarding Shotgun, Pistol / Knife (24)
5047_logo_small.png Kriza Borac HMG Lieutenant | Lieutenant, HMG, Heavy Pistol / CCW (54)
5023_logo_small.png Transductor Zond Repeater | Flash Pulse / Electric Pulse (8)
5032_logo_small.png Salyut Minesweeper | Minesweeper, Repeater, Electric Pulse (8)
5011_logo_small.png Zero Observer | Forward Observer, Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines, Pistol / Knife (19)
9023_logo_small.png Krakot Dual Chain Rifle | Chain Rifle (2), Grenades, Pistol / DA CCW (14)
5017_logo_small.png Clockmaker Engineer | Combi Rifle, D-Charges, Pistol / Knife (18)
5036_logo_small.png Zondbot Servant | Electric Pulse (3)
5035_logo_small.png Tsyklon Spitfire | Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse (31)
5028_logo_small.png Moderator Combi | Combi Rifle, Pistol / Electric Pulse (9)
5032_logo_small.png Salyut Minesweeper | Minesweeper, Repeater, Electric Pulse (8)

Group #2 | 6 Models | regular_logo_small.png 4 irregular_logo_small.png 2 impetuous_logo_small.png

5005_logo_small.png Intruder HMG | HMG, Grenades, Pistol / CCW (42)
5020_logo_small.png Reaktion Zond HMG | HMG / Electric Pulse (26)
5016_logo_small.png Daktari Doctor | Combi Rifle, Pistol / Knife (14)
5014_logo_small.png Morlock E/M CCW | Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Pistol / E/M CCW (6)
5015_logo_small.png Jaguar Chain Rifle | Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Pistol / DA CCW (10)
5014_logo_small.png Morlock E/M CCW | Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Pistol / E/M CCW (6)

app_logo_small.pngOpen in MayaNet

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2 hours ago, Mothman said:

logo_501.png Nomads
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png10  orden_impetuosa.png1
logo_4.pngINTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42)
logo_56.pngKRIZA BORAC HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54)
logo_16.pngINTERVENTOR Hacker (Killer Device Plus UPGRADE: Lightning) Boarding Shotgun, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
logo_16.pngINTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
logo_30.pngMORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
logo_10.pngZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
logo_18.pngREAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
logo_10.pngZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
logo_33.pngLUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
logo_48.pngKRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)

GROUP 2sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png1  orden_irregular.png2  orden_impetuosa.png2
logo_14.pngDAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
logo_12.pngMORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
logo_12.pngMORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
logo_34.pngZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
logo_34.pngZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

This is sort of list I run for both of them, they shoot while other dudes do the mission

I like this list. I might try it out soon. Thanks!

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2 hours ago, DaRedOne said:

I like this list. I might try it out soon. Thanks!

Its a fun list, though like most 1 main group nomad lists it requires alot of use of command tokens, I normally let morlocks drop smoke, spend a few orders having zeros get objectives and intruder sniping out 1-2 things. Command token up the borac (as leader as he retains good burst when doing this) lunkhod, intruder and whoever to be mid ground. The army largley works on 2-3 gun pieces while morans and zeroes carefully do objectives, some missions if opponent doesnt bring mid field camo specialists you just insta win by touching objectives then spamming mines midfield along with lunkhod and morans koalas.

I think my Borac tends to be response, the intruder does the initial work and ill try and have intruder just solo everything in first turn, then just send the borac in against the weaker remaining troops 2nd and third turn, midfield specialists mean he can eat 5 orders himself before it strains objective capping too much.

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22 hours ago, Mothman said:

I think my Borac tends to be response, the intruder does the initial work and ill try and have intruder just solo everything in first turn, then just send the borac in against the weaker remaining troops 2nd and third turn, midfield specialists mean he can eat 5 orders himself before it strains objective capping too much.

I've been using my Borac the same way recently. It does work better when kept as a turn 2 punch

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On 13/11/2017 at 5:54 AM, Mothman said:

 

" The HMG is by far the best profile for the SWAST (in this commanders eyes anyway) and only costs 4 points more than the Multirifle loadout.

 

Argh! Thanks for pointing that out!

On 14/11/2017 at 8:08 AM, Andre said:

Interesting read.
I myself tend to have a hard time figuring out what is a good model and what is not. 
The Kriza is an odd model and I tend to distrust expensive models value.
I however am only human and I like the big flashy HI or Tags as much as the next guy and will bend over backwards to try and see if they work. The trick is that when evaluating a profile it can be hard to tell if it is under/over performing because of luck, my own bad choices, or the actual model.   

It is definitely an assault model. It wants to Rambo, so lets look at it next to other HMG Rambo's.

So side by side to the MB has you paying 12 more points, this is another order so the benefit must be good. +1 burst, +1 armor, and a -3 penalty to enemys face to face rolls that a visor wont stop. I would say yes it is better then the MB unless you are order starved.

Intruder is a harder matchup because they behave pretty differently. Camo, smoke tricks, and 12 points cheaper vs Fullauto, 4-4 move, and two wounds.
I think you will get more money out of the Intruder but I could see running the Kriza with the Intruder.

Last comparison for me is the Gecko
Tag weaknesses make it hard to love the Gecko here and the Kriza outguns it pretty hard. On the other hand you save 1.5 SWC, get a specialist, a DTW and an extra wound.
I don't know here. I think your meta and map might determine this one. However I think I favor the Kriza just because it is going to be soo much better at winning FtF rolls.

Very well put.

Personally I find that the HMG unit is, barring very unusual circumstances, the only profile which is superior to the SWAST in terms of effectiveness. In my experience using the two of them I tend to find that the SWAST, through sheer dint of having so much versatility, performs better, especially when pushing. Consider the SWAST Red Fury and the Kriza MK12. Both have similar range bands, the Kriza has superior firepower at medium ranges but at close ranges the SWAST can drop a large teardrop DTW whilst the Kriza has its SMG essentially making them both equal, the SWAST winning out against groups. Even so far, but things are about to change. At PB range the Kriza still has its SMG but the SWAST can throw in a pair of Crazy Koala's to amp things up. Finally, the worst comes to the worst and you are engaged in melee. The Kriza panics and whips out its Heavy Pistol but the SWAST merely smiles and draws his DA CCW and readies his MA level 1. Coupled with his superior CC skill the SWAST wins, and the only thing that the Kriza can throw into the mix is the admittedly somewhat useful 360 Visor.

I like the Kriza, but in the face of all this he feels weak. In all honesty a Chainrifle, Nanopulser or even just a simple +1bs would make all the difference.

I agree with you on the Gecko somewhat, although having 3 'Wounds' and Fatality L1 are nice in some circumstances. And it is slightly cheaper.

On 14/11/2017 at 6:40 PM, Barakiel said:

 

Lastly... I'm pretty sure we didn't get the missile launcher profile because CB decided that making a Nomad unit that outperforms the Yan Huo so outrageously wasn't really fair.  Burst 2 missile on an unlinked unit, let alone one that's ARM5, multiple Wounds and imposes that nasty -3, would have been a significant challenge to balance.  ML KB would be a unit that's at least on par with the Swiss Guard or Hac Tao missile in terms of active turn performance, and is arguably better, for ~20 points less.  

Be fair, most other factions have things that are really killy and Yu-Jing is no exception with its Ninja's and martial arts EXP CCW TAG and other bits and bobs and the one that does not have anything too major has the ability to spam orders like no tomorrow. Given that Nomads are forced to rely on extremely expensive MI for the most part it would not be unreasonable to let us get a B2 Missile unit, even if it has pseudo camo. It can still be killed and it will be very expensive. Hell, the Swiss Guard has TO that lets it surprise shot and puts any opponents at a -6 to any shooting attacks against it anyway, and it is smaller!

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Let's see here...

logo_5.pngYĀN HUǑ 2 Missile Launchers + TinBot C (Neurocinetics) / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 56)

logo_56.pngKRIZA BORAC Missile Launcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 52ish)
Since a ML is +2 points over a multirifle.

 

Yeah, I think Full Auto L2 is a bit underpriced.

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2 minutes ago, Section 9 said:

Let's see here...

logo_5.pngYĀN HUǑ 2 Missile Launchers + TinBot C (Neurocinetics) / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 56)

logo_56.pngKRIZA BORAC Missile Launcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 52ish)
Since a ML is +2 points over a multirifle.

 

Yeah, I think Full Auto L2 is a bit underpriced.

Why did you compare it to the Neurocinetics?

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2 hours ago, Loricus said:
3 hours ago, Section 9 said:
2 minutes ago, Section 9 said: Let's see here...

logo_5.pngYĀN HUǑ 2 Missile Launchers + TinBot C (Neurocinetics) / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 56)

logo_56.pngKRIZA BORAC Missile Launcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 52ish)

Since a ML is +2 points over a multirifle.

 

Yeah, I think Full Auto L2 is a bit underpriced.

Why did you compare it to the Neurocinetics?

Even if you compare it with the non-Neuro YH ML then they'd both be 52/2SWC.

With the Kriza getting 4-4 Move, +3 CC, -1BS, +1 Phys, +3BTS, Courage, Multiterrain, a B3 Heavy Pistol and a -3 MOD in FTF over the YH. And that's ignoring the fact that a CCW is technically an upgrade to a Knife.

FA1 alone is significantly better than dual weapons.

Now I generally agree that 'you can't compare profiles across factions' but the fact is that the Kriza is widely considered as one of the better Nomad profiles and YHs are generally considered 'cool but out-performed' within YJ.

If a Kriza lost 3 CC and lost its HP but stayed exactly the same price I'd hardly consider it underpowered (incidentally that would also build the niche for the Multi-rifle/Mk12 profile and for TM HMGs).

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How do we know the Kriza wouldn't get dual ML's anyhoo? ;)

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I derped and was trying to give B2 in ARO like an FA2 ML would have.

 

43 minutes ago, Hachiman Taro said:

How do we know the Kriza wouldn't get dual ML's anyhoo? ;)

B3 missile launchers in either Active or ARO?

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21 minutes ago, Section 9 said:

I derped and was trying to give B2 in ARO like an FA2 ML would have.

 

B3 missile launchers in either Active or ARO?

FA and dual weapons (without Neurocinetics) don't work in ARO.

edit: the first level of FA I mean.

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Dual missile launchers with full auto, fatality, msv level 4 (he gets to see your list before you write it), sixth sense, marksmanship lvl 2, explode

but ye the art points to it being a single, doubt he can fit more on his back anyway. Do we even know whats in his backpack anyway? 

id prefer the missile launcher getting something funky instead of full auto, like raidens mine layer or an inbuilt repeater. Though I think Id like the missile launcher to have a 360 option on it.xjow2xw.jpg

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