Karadryan

How to dismantle the Avatar

16 posts in this topic

Hello fellow Ariadna players.

Yesterday i faced for the first time the Avatar and i have to say, i have never seen something so scary on the table before. I managed to kill by locking it in cc with a Dog warrior and the unknown ranger, but that could only be possible, because my opponent ran rampart with it and finished his move on my deployment edge, (it managed to kill my blackjack on the way).

So, what would your suggestions be on facing the avatar, in less ideal situations, because every weapon that can actually deal damage to it(AP HMG, Autocannon, ML), is pretty much negated by his odd and it's 15 BS.

 

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Well, I'm not an Ariadna player, but I'm pretty sure the Avatar would not like having an E/Mauler set upon its nose. As for ODD, I'd sacrifice some inexpensive model with a flamethrower, and burn the ODD off. In both cases, a Direct Template Weapon cares not for To-Hit modifier caused by ODD (or anything else, like Cover, to be honest).

High volume of fire - several Orders worth of HMG (preferably AP HMG) fire - is also going to chew through it, eventually. 

Locking it in CC with something nasty (Dog Warrior, Antipode Assault Pack, a Fireteam of lesser troops) is likely to kill it, too. Just make sure you have enough PH to cause damage, and AP-capable weapons to get through that ARM 9.

Dropping an AD or Camo with ADHL or Blitzen to the rear of it can work too, though can be an Order-hungry tactic. If you're out of his ZoC and out of his LoS, he can't react with shooting back on that high BS.

Also, you can always ignore it and go for the rest of your opponent's list - his Order base. Assuming you're playing a 300pts game, and given the Avatar is 137pts on its own, this means the rest of his force can't be more than 163pts - and if he wants a decent Order pool for the Avatar, he won't be able to afford many really nasty things. just kill the Order Pool from under him, and the Avatar will immediately become way less effective.

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First thing to do is to destroy his ODD. Flammer do it very efficiently. Each time I had to face it, I send a chasseur sacrifice himself to burn the ODD. Just be careful while placing your Chasseur before flamming so he won't cause any ORA other than the Avatar.

When the ODD is burn, Tankhunter can destroy it quite fast (I prefer AP HMG for its high burst but I imagine its more a question of taste).

As said above, CC could also be an option. Antipodes are tank killer if you manage to have the 3 of them reach the avatar

In any case, remember to destroy the TAG, not leaving it unconscious, or he will be brought back very fast.

 

Another advice : Camo and full cover. The Avatar doesn't have any MSV so end your active turn (and start the game) with all your active pieces in total cover and camoed/re-camoed to cost the avatar as much order as possible to it each one of them. Best way to neutralize it it to make it waste orders moving, discovering false camo marker (mine, ambush camo) and failing discover roll (discovering a camo in cover is a roll on 11s for the avatar => 40% chance of failing). A well placed chasseur will also be very efficient to burn the ODD during your reactive tunr (remember to use SS lvl 1 : he move close to you, you delay, he does what he want, you flame him, destroyits ODD and with luck make him loose some STR).

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In my opinion, I'd either ignore it, (i.e. kill everything else), or tie it down in CC or multiple risky AROs, (you may not be hitting on high numbers, but your opponent may not want to take the risk).

Oh, as far as CC goes, just go for crits as part of a co-ordinated CC attack. E.g. 3 models plus a Wulver as the spearhead means with NBW+Berserk you're at CC30, (and there's no FtF for the Avatar to defend itself!), plus for those rolls that don't crit then you're still at PH18 with an AP CCW.

 

PS: Admittedly, the only time I've faced an Avatar I only wounded it once, (a lucky crit from my Lt Volunteer!), but - in another game - I did take down a Sphinx with my CHA; that involved a linked Highlander Grey with T2 boarding shotgun, over a couple of orders.

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Fire and probably smoke..although if he plays first between the avatar and the speculo killer there will be no models with AP HMG to hurt it, even if our trusted chasseur sets it on fire.

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Get one lucky crit with T2 and watch the Avatar run scared for the rest of the game. ;)

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1 hour ago, Karadryan said:

Fire and probably smoke..although if he plays first between the avatar and the speculo killer there will be no models with AP HMG to hurt it, even if our trusted chasseur sets it on fire.

The speculo will have to find my tankhunter among my 10 + camo marker (and 5 + in my DZ) for this to happen (without taking a shot to the face when detecting my camo marker). Possible but unlikely.

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9 minutes ago, arkhos94 said:

The speculo will have to find my tankhunter among my 10 + camo marker (and 5 + in my DZ) for this to happen (without taking a shot to the face when detecting my camo marker). Possible but unlikely.

 When an opponent wants to drop in their impersonator and you hand them a blank courtesy list... Such a good feeling. Yes, please, reveal your Imp marker with a discover attempt!

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9 hours ago, Karadryan said:

Hello fellow Ariadna players.

Yesterday i faced for the first time the Avatar and i have to say, i have never seen something so scary on the table before. I managed to kill by locking it in cc with a Dog warrior and the unknown ranger, but that could only be possible, because my opponent ran rampart with it and finished his move on my deployment edge, (it managed to kill my blackjack on the way).

So, what would your suggestions be on facing the avatar, in less ideal situations, because every weapon that can actually deal damage to it(AP HMG, Autocannon, ML), is pretty much negated by his odd and it's 15 BS.

 

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalwegian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smoke up and finish him!

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Think it's largely been said, but I'd just like to echo the Chasseur to remove ODD and hit it with AP guns, smoke to keep it unscary, or Antipodes if it even remotely extends to get you as they'll shred it in a heartbeat. eMaulers also make it very very sad, like any tag really. It's actually not a very good piece into most Ariadna lists because it's paying for a Sepsitor it can't use, the elite nature of the build makes it hard to gain traction vs. lots of orders and camo to reveal, and its otherwise serious overkill in most 1v1 fights. 

It's also worth having elements like M5, Van Zant, Uxia, Shotgun Spetz etc etc in your list because you can usually get a good glut of their order pool. Even if you're just piece trading to remove things like the Ikadrons, Doc Worm (always kill doc worm), and the like, you can usually come out ahead by indirectly siphoning his punch even if you're behind on points.  

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I recommend Uxia to every Ariadna player. I struggle to build lists that don't include her.

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You could also use a pair of grunt infiltrators to burn off that ODD. At close range and in cover, grunt has a 75% chance of surviving.

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- Burn ODD with Chasseur or Grunt. Not necessary, but really helpful.

- Rain fire on him. Tankhnuter, Specnaz, Blackjack - anything that has high burst/high damage/AP ammo (the best is all three combined).

- Put some E/Maulers in his face. Not only you'll IMM the Avatar, but also put Combined Army in LoL (always hilarious).

- Eat him with Antipode Pack, Dog-Warrior or Uxia (hey, she has D-Charges).

- Probably best of all: ignore him and kill the other units. With no orders and no specialist skill, Avatar becomes less effective. 

 

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Why would smoke tossing, full dog wariiror ariadna have a problem with Avatar ? 

Also: antipode pack. 

Funny part is you don't even need to "kill" him. If you want you can always lock him down with something which is really unlikely to loss CC F2F and then just murder rest of his army. With such he will have to spend his own orders to try to get out of CC, something which he should have no more than 5-6 after you killed his cheerleaders. 

 

Funny observation: wow it seems that Ariadna is on point with MO when sticking in CC with Avatar! What a new funny observation...... srsly I'm sad MO player now ;(

 

Also if you go this way remember to kill his sensor drone (triangulation fire may easily kill your guy in CC with Avatar, on the other hand you should position your guy the way that it's hard to see him and Avatar blocking LoF to him). 

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Like Errhile I highly recommend infiltrating / mech. deploying troops equipped with E/Maulers, like Scouts, Moblots or Zouaves. Since the Avatar is always the Lt. you'll be able to put your opponent in Loss of Lt. too, if the Avatar fails it's BTS save. In addition, if the Avatar is in IMM2 and isolated you only have to kill the Engineer(s) present.

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6 hours ago, Hansolo said:

- Rain fire on him. Tankhnuter, Specnaz, Blackjack - anything that has high burst/high damage/AP ammo (the best is all three combined).

 

Don't forget with good BS/Strong ability to put malus. The avatar ORA will be a BS15 EXP shot so maximazing the chance to win with cover, camo and surprise shot is a must have.

Against an Avatar in cover with a burnt ODD, a tankhunter APHMG coming out of camo/in cover has 57% chance to inclict at least 1 STR loss aigainst 46% for a blackjack.

More or less the same diffence when it come to taking the ARO shot in the face (9% for the tankhunter coming out of camo against 21% for the blackjack)

AS a footnote, TH autocannon is more likely to make more than 1 wound than the APHMG but he is also more likely to die due to ARO.

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