Cronix

Friday & Al Djabal with Fatality Level 2 cc variant

17 posts in this topic

Hey,

Like the title,  Fatality Level 2 cc variant. Would this be overpowerd on them, or does this suits their assassin fighting style? 

Disquss, maybe Carlos adds it :P. 

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They're CC troopers, a shooting skill doesn't seem appropriate.

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I know it's early but please read again fatality Level 2 cc variant.

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Unless they're facing other CC troopers etc, it's nearly impossible for a Fiday to get a result of 1 for Fatality L2 to kick in.

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And they already have enhanced Criticals, due to their 20+ CC (further boosted by Martial Arts L3, and even L4 in case of al-Djabel).

Fiday with CC 21 Crits naturally on any roll of 19 or 20, and if you boost his CC with MArts, that's +3, he'll be also Critting on 18s, 17s and 16s.

Hussein al-Djabel has CC 23 on his own, so he can Crit on 17+ with Burst 2 in CC (thanks to his MArts L4), or go down to a single attack that will Crit on 14+. Keep in mind that if he goes for it with his Viral CCW, each Crit will cause a loss of one Wound /Structure, and still a BTS test to avoid losing 2nd W / STR.

Not to mention CCW is only an option - I've had my Fidays work with knives often enough: combining Shock Ammo (to make sure that crucial model is dead like them dinosaurs!) and Silent weapon (to keep other targets in the area from reacting to the attack, so the Fiday can then capitalize on his success and take more of them down) with a Crit on top of it makes extra damage from potential Fatality variant... irrelevant.

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6 hours ago, IJW Wartrader said:

Unless they're facing other CC troopers etc, it's nearly impossible for a Fiday to get a result of 1 for Fatality L2 to kick in.

I think he meant that you should crit on any die showing a 1. Which is not exactly how BS Fatality works, Fat-L2 crits on a natural 1 only because BS is never higher than 20 therefore natural 1 always give a result of 1. For CC a natural 1 give a higher die result.

IMO, they already have a huge crit range, we don't need to add them a crit on a natural 1; and it would not have a huge impact (unlike current Fat L2 that makes crit odd double up from 5% to 10%).

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15 hours ago, Robock said:

I think he meant that you should crit on any die showing a 1. 

In many scenarios it will be just about +1 CC and that's it.

Pretty much some sort of flavor entry rather than actually impactful rule. Besides, Djabel is already one of the better CC guys in this game. 

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On 5/12/2017 at 10:57 AM, Cronix said:

Hey,

Like the title,  Fatality Level 2 cc variant. Would this be overpowerd on them, or does this suits their assassin fighting style? 

Disquss, maybe Carlos adds it :P. 

Okay, discuss

How many more point he will cost? Or Which skill/equipment do you remove?

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3 hours ago, DOA said:

How many more point he will cost? 

Probably less than on Tarik / Khwarijis because of lesser applicability of melee compared to shooting, and because of lesser relative effect due to number of dice and already existing crit ranges :P

I'm joking, in case you couldn't tell. I'm still salty about Fatality. Well, a bit. 

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Oh well i'm a little bit salty about full auto :D

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Fatality 2 is a really dumb rule. Having played Tarik many times, it is so damn unsatisfying, when you just crit your opponent away, with some dice luck.

On the other hand, it is nothing you can count on. Just pure luck.

If they had given him NBW or Hyperdynamics or whatever, it would have made, much more sense  

For Fatality 2 I hope, that CB changes the rule in the next book. Just anything else but this luck based rule.

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1 hour ago, EmperorSaiStone said:

For Fatality 2 I hope, that CB changes the rule in the next book. Just anything else but this luck based rule.

I haven't had a chance to use it so far, but from the looks of it, you're right.

Fatality L1, on the other hand, is very neat - and since all TAGs got it, now they have a reason to haul those oversized guns around!

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15 hours ago, EmperorSaiStone said:

Fatality 2 is a really dumb rule. Having played Tarik many times, it is so damn unsatisfying, when you just crit your opponent away, with some dice luck.

On the other hand, it is nothing you can count on. Just pure luck.

For Fatality 2 I hope, that CB changes the rule in the next book. Just anything else but this luck based rule.

I totally do not agree.

Fatality L2 is the thing that gives Tarik some edge. Take a look at him and at some similar heavy guys in different armies. He still shoots worse than many of them, he often has lower ARM and some other stats and the bigger chance to crit is something you're paying for. The only thing that I agree with is that you can't count on it completely - it's not predictable to be used as some sure thing, the plan for the game. BUT it's not just luck.

You still have to use him wise. With Spitfire you have such big chance to crit that it is some kind of reliability. And if you crit - than you've paid for it, it's not some dumb luck like with Ghulam sniper in ARO. If you think that Fatality L2 is just pure luck, then maybe all our rolls are based on luck? Everybody can crit, so if Tarik can do it better, then maybe he's supposed to and you shouldn't be unsatisfied with him doing his job?...

I've also used him many times since the changes and now he can be very deadly, but not just because of the Fatality L2. The 0,5 SWC lower cost also is very important, as it helps to make the army full and competetive.

 

PozdRawiam / Greetings

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On 05/12/2017 at 6:47 PM, Robock said:

I think he meant that you should crit on any die showing a 1. Which is not exactly how BS Fatality works, Fat-L2 crits on a natural 1 only because BS is never higher than 20 therefore natural 1 always give a result of 1. For CC a natural 1 give a higher die result.

Excuse me but you are wrong. BS can easily go above 20 (for example Atalanta shooting at TARGETED enemy without cover will hit on BS23), Hospitaller Knight with BSG shooting at coverless target while being in 5 man link team can hit on BS23 (BS26 if target is TARGETED). 

On 07/12/2017 at 8:28 AM, KedzioR_vo said:

Take a look at him and at some similar heavy guys in different armies. He still shoots worse than many of them, he often has lower ARM and some other stats and the bigger chance to crit is something you're paying for.

Compare him to KotHS and he seems quite equal in general capabilites even without FAT2..... (not to mention cheaper)

On 07/12/2017 at 8:28 AM, KedzioR_vo said:

And if you crit - than you've paid for it,

Well last time I've looked into rules Tarik did not get price increase when getting FAT2.... (didn't he receive something like point decrease ?)

Funny enough Tarik has better chances of wounding hard targets (for example like Gecko in cover) than Seraph which does cost 30 pts more (who has big lists of additional weakneses).

 

Heck even KotHS with surprise shoot is worse at wounding Kriza in cover than Tarik (hilariously Tarik is also better than him in CC, and doesn't give a damn about repeaters ^^). 

On 07/12/2017 at 8:28 AM, KedzioR_vo said:

Everybody can crit, so if Tarik can do it better, then maybe he's supposed to and you shouldn't be unsatisfied with him doing his job?...

Everyone can ignore rules/stats like armor/BTS thus I support removing ARM/BTS completly as redundant rule ^^

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2 hours ago, Eciu said:

Excuse me but you are wrong. BS can easily go above 20 (for example Atalanta shooting at TARGETED enemy without cover will hit on BS23), Hospitaller Knight with BSG shooting at coverless target while being in 5 man link team can hit on BS23 (BS26 if target is TARGETED). 

I know BS can sometime go above 20, but they are rare and specific situations. I personally like Rev Healer BSg in a link (BS13 +6 range +3 linkteam = 22), but how many time did I manage that in an actual game ? How many time were you able to pull off Atanlanta shooting a coverless TARGETED enemy ? And was the Order spent on FO worth it ? Plus, they don't have and never will have FAT2. So we can say that as far as FAT is concerned, a natural 1 will always mean a result of 1. So the rule a Result of 1 is a Crit can be summarized as Natural 1s are Crits (which only works for BS, not if you make a CC variant by replacing "BS" with "CC").

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On 7.12.2017 at 8:28 AM, KedzioR_vo said:

I totally do not agree.

Fatality L2 is the thing that gives Tarik some edge. Take a look at him and at some similar heavy guys in different armies. He still shoots worse than many of them, he often has lower ARM and some other stats and the bigger chance to crit is something you're paying for. The only thing that I agree with is that you can't count on it completely - it's not predictable to be used as some sure thing, the plan for the game. BUT it's not just luck.

You still have to use him wise. With Spitfire you have such big chance to crit that it is some kind of reliability. And if you crit - than you've paid for it, it's not some dumb luck like with Ghulam sniper in ARO. If you think that Fatality L2 is just pure luck, then maybe all our rolls are based on luck? Everybody can crit, so if Tarik can do it better, then maybe he's supposed to and you shouldn't be unsatisfied with him doing his job?...

I've also used him many times since the changes and now he can be very deadly, but not just because of the Fatality L2. The 0,5 SWC lower cost also is very important, as it helps to make the army full and competetive.

 

PozdRawiam / Greetings

I didnt say, it doesnt make him better. What I meant is, it makes him better in an undesireable way. Thats why I wrote, he should either get another rule (which quite surely wont happen) or that the effect of FAT2 will be changed.

Well yes, everybody can crit, but was it really necessary to introduce a rule, that rewards crit hunting and therefore counting on luck? Where you can go for the crit in situations, in which you normally wouldnt shoot at all, because you crit reliable enough? Your opponent cant do anything against crits, which can become really frustrating, when they do away your tag in one to five orders. Especially if it is a Cutter, Jotum or Avatar in cover.  I can tell you, it wasnt pleasent in a recent deadly dance game, when I managed to do just that and critted out a Cutter in cover, with three orders and won the game only because of that. Before FAT2 I would have had to find a way, to get into CC with said Cutter, which takes some skill, effort and more orders. Now one can just park Tarik in cover and let loose. With a Doc+ behind him, he is also quite save against explosive AROs, he just has to pass one ARM roll and can be healed back.  No skill required and thats what also lets me dislike this rule.

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1 hour ago, Robock said:

I know BS can sometime go above 20, but they are rare and specific situations. I personally like Rev Healer BSg in a link (BS13 +6 range +3 linkteam = 22), but how many time did I manage that in an actual game ? How many time were you able to pull off Atanlanta shooting a coverless TARGETED enemy ? And was the Order spent on FO worth it ? Plus, they don't have and never will have FAT2. So we can say that as far as FAT is concerned, a natural 1 will always mean a result of 1. So the rule a Result of 1 is a Crit can be summarized as Natural 1s are Crits (which only works for BS, not if you make a CC variant by replacing "BS" with "CC").

To be fair, designing a rule around particular unit without a thought on it in general is probably a tabletop equivalent of poor coding practices leading to spaghetti code and the like in programming. 

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